The soul and the eternal soul

[Ross]

Here I am to learn about a Bible topic that I admittedly have never studied in any depth. I am bringing no pre conceived views; and I will base my conclusion upon the evidence provided. Please help me to understand this.

Firstly what is the soul of a man or woman?

Secondly, do other creatures have this?

And thirdly does Bible scripture give any indication that the soul lives on after death and or is immortal?

[1213]

I think soul is the essence of a person, his mind and personality.

And the fish. Don't forget the fish!

GENESIS 1:21

Smith's Literal Translation
And God will form great sea monsters and every living soul creeping, which the waters bred abundantly according to their kind ....

Catholic Public Domain Version
And God created the great sea creatures, and everything with a living soul and the ability to move that the waters produced

Thank you! Interesting point, not all translations have the word soul in there. For example Yong's literal:

And God prepareth the great monsters, and every living creature that is creeping, which the waters have teemed with, after their kind, and every fowl with wing, after its kind, and God seeth that it is good.
Gen. 1:21

Would be nice to know why some translations have it.

[JehovahsWitness]

Thank you! Interesting point, not all translations have the word soul in there. For example Yong's literal:

And God prepareth the great monsters, and every living creature that is creeping, which the waters have teemed with, after their kind, and every fowl with wing, after its kind, and God seeth that it is good.
Gen. 1:21

Would be nice to know why some translations have it.

It is VERY valuable to understand what a concordance is and how to use it..



JW

[JehovahsWitness]

I'M HAVING A BALL WITH CHAT GPT; HERE IS MY CONVERSATION REGARDING THE BIBLE AND SOUL

QUESTION is the expression "eternal soul (nephesh)" ever found in the bible?

ChatGPT said:
No, the expression "eternal soul (nephesh)" is not found in the Bible. The Hebrew word נֶפֶשׁ (nephesh), often translated as "soul," generally refers to a living being, life, or breath rather than an immortal or eternal entity.

• In the Old Testament, nephesh is used to describe humans, animals, desires, and life itself, but it is not explicitly linked to the concept of an "eternal soul." Instead, the Bible often speaks of the immortality of God and the promise of eternal life for the righteous, but not in terms of an inherently "eternal soul."

If you're looking for related biblical concepts, phrases like "eternal life" (חַיֵּי עוֹלָם, chayyei olam) appear in places like Daniel 12:2 and John 3:16, but not with the term nephesh.

You said:
does the bible present nephesh as a separate independent part of a human that survives death and continues conscious existence

ChatGPT said:
No, the Bible does not present nephesh as a separate, independent part of a human that survives death and continues conscious existence. Instead, nephesh (נֶפֶשׁ) in the Hebrew Bible refers to the whole person or a living being, not an immortal soul that exists separately from the body. Here’s why:

1. Nephesh Means a Living Being, Not an Immortal Soul Genesis 2:7 – "Then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living soul (nephesh chayyah)." This shows that a human is a nephesh, rather than having a nephesh as an independent entity. Nephesh is also used for animals (Genesis 1:20–21, 1:30), showing it refers to life itself rather than an immortal soul.

2. The Bible Describes the Nephesh as Mortal Ezekiel 18:4 – "The soul (nephesh) that sins shall die." This contradicts the idea that the nephesh is an inherently immortal entity. Psalm 146:4 – "When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish." This implies that consciousness does not continue after death.

3. The Dead Are Unconscious, Not Aware Ecclesiastes 9:5 – "For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing."
This suggests that when a person dies, they are not consciously existing elsewhere. Psalm 115:17 – "The dead do not praise the Lord, nor do any who go down into silence." If the nephesh continued in conscious existence, it would be able to praise God.

4. Hope of Resurrection, Not an Immortal Soul The Bible emphasizes resurrection rather than the idea of an already-conscious soul going to heaven or hell at death. Daniel 12:2 – "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." 1 Corinthians 15:52 – "For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable."

Conclusion
The biblical view of nephesh does not align with the Greek philosophical idea of an immortal soul that exists independently of the body. Instead, the Bible teaches that humans are living souls who die and return to dust, with hope in resurrection rather than an inherent, conscious afterlife.

[JehovahsWitness]

This question is for 1213

QUESTION So strictly speaking would we say in English an animal has a soul or is a soul?

ChatGPT said:
Strictly speaking, based on biblical usage of נֶפֶשׁ (nephesh), we would say that an animal is a soul rather than has a soul.

Why?

• The Bible Uses "Nephesh" to Describe the Whole Living Being

Genesis 1:20-21, 24 – Animals are called nephesh chayyah ("living souls" or "living beings"). Genesis 2:7 – "Man became a living soul (nephesh chayyah)"—the same phrase used for animals. Numbers 31:28 – Both humans and animals are referred to as nephesh (souls). A Soul Is Not a Separate, Immortal Part in the Bible

Humans and animals do not possess a soul as something distinct from their body; rather, they are souls. Ezekiel 18:4 – "The soul (nephesh) that sins shall die." Souls are not inherently immortal. Death Is the End of the Living Soul Ecclesiastes 3:19-20 – "Man has no advantage over the beasts… all go to one place." Psalm 146:4 – "His breath departs, he returns to the earth; in that very day his plans perish."

CONCLUSION According to biblical language, an animal is a soul (nephesh)—a living creature, not something with a separate, indestructible essence. If we say an animal has a soul, it could imply the Greek-influenced idea of an independent, immortal entity, which is not a biblical concept. So, the most biblically accurate way to say it in English would be: "An animal is a soul (a living being), not that it has a soul."

[JehovahsWitness]

CONVERSATION WITH CHAT GPT continued ...

QUESTION WHAT ABOUT HUMANS would it be biblically more accurate to say a man (or woman) has a soul or a man is a soul?

ChatGPT said:
Biblically speaking, it is more accurate to say that a man (or woman) is a soul rather than has a soul.

1. The Bible Says Humans Are Souls Genesis 2:7 – "Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul (nephesh chayyah)." Notice it does not say that man was given a soul but that man became a soul. The same phrase (nephesh chayyah) is used for animals (Genesis 1:20-21, 24), meaning both humans and animals are "living beings" or "souls." 1 Corinthians 15:45 – "The first man Adam was made a living soul (ψυχὴν ζῶσαν, psychēn zōsan in Greek)." This New Testament verse confirms that Adam was a soul, not that he had a separate soul.

2. Souls Can Die (Meaning the Soul Is Not an Immortal Entity) Ezekiel 18:4 – "The soul (nephesh) that sins shall die."
If a soul can die, it is not an inherently immortal part of a person. Revelation 16:3 – "Every living soul (psychē) died in the sea." (Referring to sea creatures.) Again, souls can die, which shows they are not an indestructible essence separate from the body.

3. Humans Are Not Described as Having a Separate, Conscious Soul After Death Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10 – "The dead know nothing… there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going." If the soul were a conscious entity apart from the body, this passage would not make sense. Psalm 146:4 – "When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish." No mention of a soul continuing in another state.

CONCLUSION The Bible consistently presents humans as souls (living beings) rather than as having a distinct, separable soul. Saying a person has a soul can imply a Greek-influenced dualistic view where the soul is an independent, immortal essence—something the Bible does not teach. Thus, the most biblically accurate way to phrase it is: "A man (or woman) is a soul, not that they have a soul."

[Ross]

Nice one Jehovah's Witness.

So now in your own words please: what is the or a soul?

[1213]

Thank you! Interesting point, not all translations have the word soul in there. For example Yong's literal:

And God prepareth the great monsters, and every living creature that is creeping, which the waters have teemed with, after their kind, and every fowl with wing, after its kind, and God seeth that it is good.
Gen. 1:21

Would be nice to know why some translations have it.

It is VERY valuable to understand what a concordance is and how to use it..

Please explain what do you mean with that?

[JehovahsWitness]

Please explain what do you mean with that?

I mean it would be very valuable for someone that wishes to understand translational choices in general (and why the word "soul" pops up when referring to fish, in particular) to understand what a concordance is and how to use it (and I might add .... a lexicon).


JW

[Capbook]

Here I am to learn about a Bible topic that I admittedly have never studied in any depth. I am bringing no pre conceived views; and I will base my conclusion upon the evidence provided. Please help me to understand this.

Firstly what is the soul of a man or woman?

Secondly, do other creatures have this?

And thirdly does Bible scripture give any indication that the soul lives on after death and or is immortal?

Anything that has life, is a living soul. When died, body return to dust, God's breath/spirit return to God, soul is nowhere then or "soul sleep."

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

[Ross]

Here I am to learn about a Bible topic that I admittedly have never studied in any depth. I am bringing no pre conceived views; and I will base my conclusion upon the evidence provided. Please help me to understand this.

Firstly what is the soul of a man or woman?

Secondly, do other creatures have this?

And thirdly does Bible scripture give any indication that the soul lives on after death and or is immortal?

Anything that has life, is a living soul. When died, body return to dust, God's breath/spirit return to God, soul is nowhere then or "soul sleep."

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

So no immortal or eternal soul. No soul that lives on after death.