Michael

[placebofactor]

Is Jesus Christ Michael the archangel?

[1213]

[Replying to Revelations won in post #29]

Michael; speaking of the end times:

"And at that time shall Michael standup, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." (Daniel 12:1,2, KJV)

Who else has the privilege to "stand up" for the people? Is there another "great prince" besides Jesus Christ? The verses speak of the Great Tribulation. Who is the foremost individual that is involved with the workings-out of this time of the end, and is uniquely referred to in the 24th chapter of Matthew?? So if Daniel 12 is not referring to Jesus, then there is another great prince who would be fulfilling all of what Jesus spoke of in the 24th chapter of Matthew. I don't think there is another great prince the likes of Jesus Christ. He alone deserves all the accolades associated with the end of times.

I have understood that Michael is an archangel, or chief angel. The highest ranking angels are called princes in the Bible. But still, Michael is an angel. And Bible tells Jesus will send his angels one day as said here:

The Son of man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all the offenses, and those who practice lawlessness.
Matt. 13:41

And I believe Jesus is the king, not a prince, who sends Michael to stand up.

[Revelations won]

To all respondents,

I find it interesting to observe that there are many who draw “private interpretations and conclusions” from biblical statements which are clearly given by “revelation”. Let us more carefully examine the full context of Daniel 12.

“Daniel 12:

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

My comment: Verse 1 is a revelation referring to a future day and time of trouble and a when the Lords people will be delivered.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

My comment: Verse 2 clearly identifies this time to be a period after the resurrection and the judgement.

3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

My comment: Verse 3 speaks of those that are wise “as pertaining to the things of God ”who turn many to righteousness”.

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

My comment: It is clearly obvious in this great revelation given to Daniel that all of the revelation is to be sealed up and not yet given to the people at that time, but will not be given until the end times. It is also clear that in the end time knowledge will also increase. Should we also look forward in these end times for those things to be revealed in our day?

5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.

My comment: Can anyone know who these two men on either side of the river are except by divine revelation?

6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

My comment: We should observe that Daniel is clearly told by the Lord that these things are to be sealed up until the time of the end.
So it should also be clearly understood that these things will be revealed in the end time.


10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

My comment: It should be obvious that the wicked who will reject the revelation referred to that will be revealed in the last days will never understand.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

My comment: Even mighty Daniel who had the spirit of personal revelation was told that even he would have to wait for further revelation that was to be reveled in the last days or end times.
Are we better than this great prophet?

Are the Lords faithful people be left in darkness and without divine guidance during the “great time of tribulation” which we are now beginning to face?

"REVELATIONS FROM GOD ARE BEST PERCEIVED BY REVELATION"

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Revelations won in post #29]

Michael; speaking of the end times:

"And at that time shall Michael standup, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." (Daniel 12:1,2, KJV)

Who else has the privilege to "stand up" for the people? Is there another "great prince" besides Jesus Christ? The verses speak of the Great Tribulation. Who is the foremost individual that is involved with the workings-out of this time of the end, and is uniquely referred to in the 24th chapter of Matthew?? So if Daniel 12 is not referring to Jesus, then there is another great prince who would be fulfilling all of what Jesus spoke of in the 24th chapter of Matthew. I don't think there is another great prince the likes of Jesus Christ. He alone deserves all the accolades associated with the end of times.

I have understood that Michael is an archangel, or chief angel. The highest ranking angels are called princes in the Bible. But still, Michael is an angel. And Bible tells Jesus will send his angels one day as said here:

The Son of man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all the offenses, and those who practice lawlessness.
Matt. 13:41

And I believe Jesus is the king, not a prince, who sends Michael to stand up.

Fine. And I have posted why Jesus must be Michael. Also, why would Jesus send Michael to cast the Devil out of heaven? That war was between Jesus and Satan. Jesus would want to take care of things himself. He is spoken of as taking care of things at the War of Armageddon. Michael is not mentioned with Jesus. The two are never together, further supporting the idea that Jesus has to be Michael. (Revelation 12:7-9; Revelation 19:11-21)

[placebofactor]

To all respondents,

I find it interesting to observe that there are many who draw “private interpretations and conclusions” from biblical statements which are clearly given by “revelation”. Let us more carefully examine the full context of Daniel 12.

“Daniel 12:

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

My comment: Verse 1 is a revelation referring to a future day and time of trouble and a when the Lords people will be delivered.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

My comment: Verse 2 clearly identifies this time to be a period after the resurrection and the judgement.

3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

My comment: Verse 3 speaks of those that are wise “as pertaining to the things of God ”who turn many to righteousness”.

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

My comment: It is clearly obvious in this great revelation given to Daniel that all of the revelation is to be sealed up and not yet given to the people at that time, but will not be given until the end times. It is also clear that in the end time knowledge will also increase. Should we also look forward in these end times for those things to be revealed in our day?

5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.

My comment: Can anyone know who these two men on either side of the river are except by divine revelation?

6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

My comment: We should observe that Daniel is clearly told by the Lord that these things are to be sealed up until the time of the end.
So it should also be clearly understood that these things will be revealed in the end time.


10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

My comment: It should be obvious that the wicked who will reject the revelation referred to that will be revealed in the last days will never understand.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

My comment: Even mighty Daniel who had the spirit of personal revelation was told that even he would have to wait for further revelation that was to be reveled in the last days or end times.
Are we better than this great prophet?

Do you go to sleep at night and make this stuff up? Where do you come up with this stuff that Daniel would have to wait for further revelation?

Daniel 12:13, Daniel is told, "Go thou your way until the end come: for you shall rest, and stand in your lot at the end of the days." Daniel is promised that one day in his flesh, he will see and share in the new kingdom on earth. His "LOT" or portion: Daniel is being assured that when the last days merge into the coming kingdom, he will be given his allotted place or portion."

You wrote, "Are the Lord's faithful people be left in darkness and without divine guidance during the “great time of tribulation” which we are now beginning to face?"

The Bride of Christ will be taken up to be with the Lord Jesus before the Great tribulation, the "Time of Jacob's Trouble begins." We are children of the light, not of darkness. Paul wrote, "I will show you a mystery, something unknown until he revealed it. 1 Corinthians 15:52, "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead (in Christ) shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." The soul and the spirit of the saved will be reunited with a new incorruptible, immortal body.

Matthew 24:30-31, The Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Jesus said John 5:25, "The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live."

[1213]

And I have posted why Jesus must be Michael....

If it is so, why do you think Jesus is not called Michael in the Gospels?

[placebofactor]

[Replying to Revelations won in post #29]

Michael; speaking of the end times:

"And at that time shall Michael standup, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." (Daniel 12:1,2, KJV)

Who else has the privilege to "stand up" for the people? Is there another "great prince" besides Jesus Christ? The verses speak of the Great Tribulation. Who is the foremost individual that is involved with the workings-out of this time of the end, and is uniquely referred to in the 24th chapter of Matthew?? So if Daniel 12 is not referring to Jesus, then there is another great prince who would be fulfilling all of what Jesus spoke of in the 24th chapter of Matthew. I don't think there is another great prince the likes of Jesus Christ. He alone deserves all the accolades associated with the end of times.

Daniel receives this message, and it concerns HIS people the Jews, not the Gentiles, nor the church. There shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation. So Israel has to exist as a nation, this happened on May 14, 1948. When this time of trouble begins, the church will be with Jesus Christ in heaven, and Michael will be sent to assist the Jews. Michael is the prince who will stand up for the Jews against the antichrist and the power of Satan during this period of 3 1/2 years. Remember, the Jews have already rejected Jesus Christ, and to this day are under God's curse. What awaits them is their punishment, and for that, the antichrist and his prophet are sent.

A time of trouble like never before. That would leave out every war and persecution the Jews suffered until World War 2, it being far worse than their war with Rome in 70 A.D. Now what's coming will be far worse than World War 2 for Israel, so bad, if the Lord did not stop the destruction, no Jews would be left alive. This would be what is called the "Time of Jacob's trouble," of the Great Tribulation.

[onewithhim]

And I have posted why Jesus must be Michael....

If it is so, why do you think Jesus is not called Michael in the Gospels?

Because the angel Gabriel told Jesus' parents to name him Jesus, so I perceive that that is the name he would go by while on the earth.

[placebofactor]

As we study the Scripture, we find the often-recurring phrase, “The angel of the LORD.” In almost all cases, this messenger is regarded as Deity yet distinguished from the Father. The angel of the LORD is the pre-incarnate Logos (the Word), his appearance in angelic or human form foreshadows his coming in the flesh.

So, if Jesus is the angel of God, it means Jesus himself is not the God?

Jesus came to men in the O.T. in many forms. He showed himself as a man to Abraham. The two angels with him also showed themselves as men; Genesis 17.

Jesus came in the form of a man and wrestled with Jacob, Genesis 32:24. Jacob then wrote, verse 30, "I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."

Jehovah (Jesus) came to Manoah and his wife as the angel of the LORD. His message to them was, Judges 13:3, "Behold no, thou art barren, and bear not: but you shall conceive, and bear a son." That son would be Samson.

Jesus came to Joshua in Joshua 2:14, As "the captain of the host of the LORD." And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship." Joshua the leader of the Jews and of the Law worshipped Jehovah and Joshua worshipped the Son of God who came as the captain of the host of the LORD. He then said to Joshua, "Loose you shoes from off your foot; for the place whereon you stand is holy. And Joshua do so."

There are many cases like the above where the LORD Jesus came to men in different forms giving them different messages. He walked with Adam in the garden, Moses saw his backside, etc. etc.

You wrote, "So, if Jesus is the angel of God, it means Jesus himself is not the God?"

How in the heck do you get "Jesus is not God" out of, "The angel (messenger) of God?" Your thinking is all messed up. You're thinking of this cute little spirit creature that has two wings and comes floating down from heaven with a message. NO!, It's Jesus Christ, your Savior, your Creator, bringing a message to men, a message that comes from the counsel of God.