'J' died once for ALL sins? Really? Explain then.

[Avoice]

Explain how the sacrificial system returns in the end times when the Christian testament says there is no more need for sacrifices.

In short: The God if Israel says the sacrificial system will be reinstated. Not only that but the Prince (messiah) will offer sacrifices on behalf of HIMSELF and for the nation. If jesus was the final sacrifice.. totally sinless then why wiuld he offer sacrifices for himself? Or sacrifices at all? Obviously the Christian testament is not being truthful when it says there is no more need for sacrifices.

Will the sacrificial system be reinstated or is God lying?

[Avoice]

[Replying to 1213 in post #2]

You stated:
"No need to have sacrifices is not the same as you can't do them.."

Where did I say anything about CAN'T do them?

One thing is true by evidence: Jesus' death was not a sacrifice

[1213]

[Replying to 1213 in post #2]

You stated:
"No need to have sacrifices is not the same as you can't do them.."

Where did I say anything about CAN'T do them?

The point was, sacrificial system can come back, even if there is no need for it.

[Avoice]

[Replying to 1213 in post #22]

Okay. I agree with you. At this moment there is no need.

The point I was making is that the Christian testament says Jesus is the final sacrifice for sins and that is not true. He couldnt even have been a sacrifice. God doesnt accept sacrifices done in a place like Golgotha. They can ONLY be done in the temple and the blood must be put on the horns of the alter. God said so.

[RR144]

If you go through the details, you'll notice that the numbers of sacrificial animals given in Ezekiel don't match those in the law of Moses. The sacrifices prescribed in Ezekiel, therefore, would have to be adopted at some future time. There has also never been a "prince" to offer them, so he too would have to come along in the future.

Hmmm ... here are my notes on chapter 45, it may not make sense because you're dealing with just one chapter.

“Moreover, when you divide the land by lot into inheritance, you shall set apart a district for the Lord, a holy section of the land; its length shall be twenty-five thousand cubits, and the width ten thousand. It shall be holy throughout its territory all around. 2 Of this there shall be a square plot for the sanctuary, five hundred by five hundred rods, with fifty cubits around it for an open space. 3 So this is the district you shall measure: twenty-five thousand cubits long and ten thousand wide; in it shall be the sanctuary, the Most Holy Place. 4 It shall be a holy section of the land, belonging to the priests, the ministers of the sanctuary, who come near to minister to the Lord; it shall be a place for their houses and a holy place for the sanctuary. 5 An area twenty-five thousand cubits long and ten thousand wide shall belong to the Levites, the ministers of the temple; they shall have twenty chambers as a possession." (vss 1-5)

When the time comes to divide the land among the twelve tribes, they will use the Tabernacle as their model. First, there will be a portion dedicated to Yahweh, recognizing Him as the highest authority. The Most Holy will be positioned at the center to lead everyone to God. The sanctuary symbolizes the Holy of the Tabernacle, and adjacent to it is a square area representing the Most Holy. Reflecting on the Gospel Age, the Holy refers to spirit begettal, while the Most Holy signifies spirit birth, which is the pinnacle of the High Calling. The Levites, known as the Great Company, are spirit-born and serve by blessing all the families of the earth with earthly blessings.

6 “You shall appoint as the property of the city an area five thousand cubits wide and twenty-five thousand long, adjacent to the district of the holy section; it shall belong to the whole house of Israel. 7 “The prince shall have a section on one side and the other of the holy district and the city’s property; and bordering on the holy district and the city’s property, extending westward on the west side and eastward on the east side, the length shall be side by side with one of the tribal portions, from the west border to the east border. 8 The land shall be his possession in Israel; and My princes shall no more oppress My people, but they shall give the rest of the land to the house of Israel, according to their tribes.” 9 ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Enough, O princes of Israel! Remove violence and plundering, execute justice and righteousness, and stop dispossessing My people,” says the Lord God. 10 “You shall have honest scales, an honest ephah, and an honest bath. 11 The ephah and the bath shall be of the same measure, so that the bath contains one-tenth of a homer, and the ephah one-tenth of a homer; their measure shall be according to the homer. 12 The shekel shall be twenty gerahs; twenty shekels, twenty-five shekels, and fifteen shekels shall be your mina." (vss 6-12)

The Ancient Worthies have a good report and they are acknowledged as princes in all the earth, or gates into the golden city, where the world in general may come in to receive the blessings of the Divine government. The ashes of the Red Heifer will do away with the contacts of death. The whole house of Israel represents the whole world of mankind, all of whom must become children of Abraham, including the Jews. These princes will oppress no one. All business relations will be carried on by a strict adherence to the principle of honesty towards God and men. The different coins will be just and right for both parties; there will be no gouging, and no overcharge.

13 “This is the offering which you shall offer: you shall give one-sixth of an ephah from a homer of wheat, and one-sixth of an ephah from a homer of barley. 14 The ordinance concerning oil, the bath of oil, is one-tenth of a bath from a kor. A kor is a homer or ten baths, for ten baths are a homer. 15 And one lamb shall be given from a flock of two hundred, from the rich pastures of Israel. These shall be for grain offerings, burnt offerings, and peace offerings, to make atonement for them,” says the Lord God. 16 “All the people of the land shall give this offering for the prince in Israel. 17 Then it shall be the prince’s part to give burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the feasts, the New Moons, the Sabbaths, and at all the appointed seasons of the house of Israel. He shall prepare the sin offering, the grain offering, the burnt offering, and the peace offerings to make atonement for the house of Israel.” (vss 13-17)

Showing gratitude to God involves setting aside a portion of increase for Him, which is given to the priestly representatives of Aaron and his sons. The princes, despite being of perfect human nature, still require food and various earthly goods. Do not forget the Levite in times of abundance. Thus, meat offerings are appropriate, symbolizing praise and thankfulness; burnt offerings serve as prayers for forgiveness and gratitude; peace offerings, or prayers of dedication, are often repeated and are beneficial and pleasing to the princes, reflecting the people's heartfelt appreciation for the teachings and examples of the Ancient Worthies. This offering is directed to the princes or rulers throughout the earth.

"18 ‘Thus says the Lord God: “In the first month, on the first day of the month, you shall take a young bull without blemish and cleanse the sanctuary. 19 The priest shall take some of the blood of the sin offering and put it on the doorposts of the [c]temple, on the four corners of the ledge of the altar, and on the gateposts of the gate of the inner court. 20 And so you shall do on the seventh day of the month for everyone who has sinned unintentionally or in ignorance. Thus you shall make atonement for the temple. 21 “In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month, you shall observe the Passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten." (vss 18-21)

Every New Year’s Day, there will be a ceremony honoring the sacrifice of the Messiah, both Head and body, recognizing its positive effects. The copper altar in the court symbolizes our Lord's sin offering during the Gospel Age. In the Millennial Age, after the goat's blood is sprinkled, it will also represent the Little Flock as the world's sin offering. For a common person who makes a mistake unknowingly, the service of a member of Christ will be enough for correction. (Leviticus 4:27-28) The Passover will be observed during the thousand years of Christ’s reign, as stated in Exodus 12, where a goat, representing the church, will be deemed effective for the Passover: the true church will stay in Jordan until all the people have crossed over. - Joshua 3:9-17

[1213]

The point I was making is that the Christian testament says Jesus is the final sacrifice for sins and that is not true. He couldnt even have been a sacrifice.

I would like to see the scripture you are referring to. I think the sacrifice idea is wrongly understood, if it is seen as common sacrifice. Jesus is seen as a sacrifice, because he used his life for us and was basically killed because our sins. And killed because of our sins means, he came on earth to declare forgiveness of our sins, and because he did that, he got killed. And the reason why he is the ultimate "sacrifice" is that because of what he did and said, there can happen change in person so that he rejects sin and becomes righteous, which is why no sin offering is then needed.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to RR144 in post #24]

Every New Year’s Day, there will be a ceremony honoring the sacrifice of the Messiah, both Head and body, recognizing its positive effects.

"He shall prepare the sin offering, the grain offering, the burnt offering, and the peace offerings to make atonement for the house of Israel.”
(Ezekiel 45:17)

This, according to the text, is why the prince makes the offerings----to make atonement, not "honoring" any atonement supposedly made earlier.


You end your quoting of Ezekiel 45 with verse 21, instead of going on to verse 22:

"And upon that day shall the prince prepare for himself and for all the people of the land a bullock for a sin offering."

Even if the prince isn't supposed to be the Messiah, this tells us that there are still offerings being made for sin in the messianic age, which means that no single sacrifice replaced them earlier.

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to AquinasForGod in post #12]

Wrong.

There WILL be sacrifices in the temple in the end times.

First though let me say that we are told in Hosea that the last segment of history we shall be WITHOUT a king and WITHOUT sacrifices for many days and afterward they will seek God and David their King (what is commonly called the messiah)
So to say Jesus is king of the Jews doesnt work.
The book of Ezekiel tells us the final temple will be built and the sacrificial system will be restored.

Yes, the new covenant. You quote the passage. The new covenant is not in effect. How do we know? Read what it says. It describes what the world will be like WHEN the new covenant is in place: it says people wont be out teaching people to know the lord for ALL will know him.
Christians are still out pushing Jesus. If the new covenant was in place there would be no need to preach Jesus. Christians are not under the new covenant

I disagree. The church disagrees. Hebrews disagrees. “But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.” (Hebrews 10:12)

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to AquinasForGod in post #27]

Yes, the new covenant. You quote the passage. The new covenant is not in effect. How do we know? Read what it says. It describes what the world will be like WHEN the new covenant is in place: it says people wont be out teaching people to know the lord for ALL will know him.
Christians are still out pushing Jesus. If the new covenant was in place there would be no need to preach Jesus. Christians are not under the new covenant

I disagree. The church disagrees. Hebrews disagrees. “But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.” (Hebrews 10:12)

Disagreement doesn't change fact.

[Avoice]

[Replying to AquinasForGod in post #27]

Disagree with what? What it says in the Hebrew Scriptures? (What you call the old testament)

Judaism doesnt need Christianity. But Christianity needs Judaism. That is a fact that Chriatians may not like but they cant get around it.
Christians can not disbelieve the Hebrew scriptures. Christianity claims to be a continuance of the Hebrew Scriptures. And therefore requires that the Hebrew Scriptures be true. Otherwise Christianity would be built on a lie.

The Hebrew Scriptures is the root. The ultimate source for truth. Any claim Christians make MUST be supported by the Hebrew Scriptures.

And so when the Hebrew Scriptures tell us that we will be without a king and sacrifices for many days but that the sacrificial system will be reinstated in the end times THAT is truth. By virtue of it being the ultimate authority. Christians are stuck with that truth.

It doesnt matter what kind of plant you try to graft. It will never survive if it cant get water from its roots.

Anything that is not supported by the Hebrew Scriptures must be rejected. Jesus is not the final sacrifice like the Church says. The Hebrew Scriptures says otherwise.
You dont have to like it. But you cant change it