"Take my word for it, or his, or this book"

[Zzyzx]

Most of us probably know better than to believe everything said or written. If someone tells us they can fly by flapping their arms, our response is likely disbelief and a request that they ‘show me’. If they refuse to demonstrate or fail in flapping, we regard their claim as false. Agreed?

If a person claims to have come back to life after being dead for days none of us are likely to believe the claim unless it could be verified. Right?

If someone writes that fifty years ago a long-dead person came back to life and flew away into the sky, what would be your / our likely reaction? Would we be convinced if they say ‘many saw him’?

What would it take to convince us that the tale was true?

[Realworldjack]

[Replying to OneJack in post #189]

Your words is so shaky that it can't withstand magnitude 9.5 tremor on the Richer scale

You just type words in order to type words, and they have no meaning. Anyone can say the above. Your problem is you do nothing to demonstrate what you say. On the other hand, I have indeed demonstrated that most of what you have shared with us, which you claim came from Jesus directly can be found in the Bible which you claim is not reliable, and all you have is "your words is so shaky that it can't with stand a 9.5 tremor on the Richer scale," with absolutely nothing whatsoever to back such a statement up.

where you attacked me

How in the world can you take it as an "attack" on you by me simply pointing out the fact that most all you have shared with us as far as what Jesus has revealed to you can be found in the Bible? That is not an attack. It is simply a fact.

Absolutely, it does sound 'a whole lot nonsense' to you because of the following reasons:

It sounds like nonsense because of the fact that it is nonsense to claim to hear directly from Jesus and all you have is what can be found in the Bible, along with some sort of conversation, between whom we are not told, in which sin is talked about in which you go on about how our "good deeds cannot save us" which we would have already known by reading the Bible. In other words, it is nonsense for one to insist they hear directly from Jesus and then go on to regurgitate what can be found in the Bible, and then go on to explain to us just how unreliable the Bible is which you are getting all of this from.

You only know Jesus through the pages of the bible

And you mostly only continue to claim to hear directly from Jesus, while at the same time simply regurgitating what is contained in the Bible. Moreover, and again, you would have never known the name of Jesus if it had not been for the apostles, along with what is contained in the Bible. I mean, think about what is going on here? You are insisting to hear directly from Jesus, all the while explaining to us how unreliable the Bible is, while at the same time regurgitating what we all can know by reading the Bible. Do you really want to talk about who is on "shaky ground?" GOOD GRIEF!

You only know Jesus through the pages of the bible

And again, it is a fact beyond question that you would have never known the Name of Jesus if it were not for "the pages of the Bible." And that is a FACT! I mean, this is SO, SO, FUNNY!

You seem to overlook the fact that the bible is not God and Jesus.

You keep saying this over, and over, as if I hold the Bible in some sort of high regard, when I can demonstrate the fact that I have said right here on this site that "I wish the Bible had never been composed." How in the world can someone who says such a thing be understood as holding the Bible up as being God or Jesus?

Perfectly said! But if we analyze your narrative saying, 'I am wondering if you claim to possess the ability to perform miracles such as the apostles did,' it will appear that you based your curiosity [if I possess the ability to perform miracles] on my claim about hearing from Jesus, don't you? That is the same as coupling, an instant built-in capability in your wildest opinion.

You are simply attempting to protect yourself here, because my whole point is simply the fact that you have chosen to claim to hear from Jesus directly because you know that you can continue to claim this to be the case and you are under the impression that this claim is not falsifiable. However, the more you type, the more we can see the falsehood in your claim. Because you see, you continue to scold me for holding the Bible in high regard, and at the same time you continue to share with us what you claimed to have heard from Jesus directly, and most of what you claim to have heard comes straight out of the Bible you are scolding me for having a high regard for. It is like, all I have to do is to continue to allow you to type away. The more you type, the more you give away.

You are saying things here that are not an options given by God to the ones whom He sends to choose from. The Lord God continues to send people to the world to bring His name and salvation to everyone, not to give people truckload of evidence for absolute verification to satisfy men's greed in seeing wonders and miracles from God. The Lord Jesus told us that He will not give today and onwards miracles, especially of healing to be performed by the ones whom He sends/will send in order not to further draw the people away from Him, but nigh to the ones whom He sends.

I mean, I am just telling you, that you cannot imagine just how hard I am laughing right now! You really cannot make this stuff up! So then, what you are saying above is the fact that God has put Himself inside a box. In other words, you are admitting the fact that the apostles possess the ability to perform signs, wonders, and miracles recorded in the Bible, and this would have included the gift of healing, and God has the ability to continue to allow this to occur but has decided not to do so. In other words, and again, God has put Himself inside a box. This is absolutely no different than me saying that Jesus could indeed communicate directly with us but has decided to give us His ordained means to experience Him. The only difference between you and me is exactly how big the box is. My box says Jesus no longer communicates directly to any of us, while your box insists that He does communicate directly with you, but this is where the box stops, because He does not allow any of us to have any of the gifts that could be verified such as healing. I am just telling you, you have to see the problem here. You complain about me putting God in a box, but your box for God stops just short of being able to be verified. How convenient is that? The only difference between us is I am not the one who put God in a box, rather I am simply reading where it is said that God put Himself in a box, while you are asking us to simply take your word for the fact that Jesus has told you that God has put Himself in a box.

You really have no idea how the Lord sends people to bring His name and salvation to everyone, especially to the one like you, who are totally locked up in the box (bible), which is not God. For your information, the Lord Jesus would not give you an option of what you have to choose from when He called you to go and make disciples, per se.

And here you are again telling us that God has put Himself inside a box, and the reason seems to be for our protection, and it is to keep us from seeking after the signs and wonders. And again, the only difference seems to be, I am getting what I am saying from what is contained in the Bible, while you are simply telling us that you are getting it straight from Jesus Himself.

Also, He would not command you to preach the bible to your fellowmen.

And yet, most all of what you claim to hear straight from Jesus can be found in the Bible you claim Jesus would not command us to preach from. The more you type, the more you expose yourself.

Face the mirror, you are not Jesus and God, okay?

One does not have to be God or Jesus in order to see that you cannot verify this direct line to Jesus you claim to have. One does not have to face the mirror in order to know for a fact that you would have never known the name of Jesus if it were not for the pages of the Bible. One does not have to be God or Jesus in order to see that most all of what you claim to have heard from Jesus can be found in the Bible that Jesus would never command us to preach from. All one has to do is to continue to read what you type.

You are totally out of order with what you are saying here because your narrative is too far from the reality of how the Lord Jesus shepherds His sheep today, where we are now the living witnesses to the Lord. You don't know that every time we try to talk to the Lord using our mind, He instantly respond to us in a tangible way through the means He provided with us, how do you say 'you also have no way to verify to yourself,' which total ignorance about the Lord's way [on your part] have completely eaten you up in this regard.

All of this according to what you say. On the other hand, what is contained in the Bible has had one of the most, if not the most significant impacts the world has ever known, and when compared to the impact of what you are attempting to sell, you are having virtually no impact at all, except for to expose yourself as a false prophet.

The apostles and close to them are all long gone. You are only basing all your narratives in the bible, which is not God, and not even the apostles. Don't you get it. The apostles can no longer teach you, much less that the bible cannot teach you, too. The truth resides only in the real and eternally living Christ Jesus; hence, you can't get the truth in the bible, and even to the apostles, who are long gone.

I don't see what you are not getting. The apostles, and the Bible, who you claim cannot teach us anything, has had the most significant impact the world has ever known to the point it causes what little impact you are having to be nonexistent. Moreover, and again, most of what you claim to hear from Jesus directly comes straight from the teachings concerning Jesus according to the apostles, contained in the Bible, which you claim Jesus would never command us to preach from.

You're not with any of those guys that you have mentioned, and you have witnessed totally nothing with what they did, wrote, and spoke with each other, are you? Those guys and all long gone, and can no longer give you any iota of truth to all the things that transpired in their lives when Jesus commanded them to make disciples.

And yet it is from what the authors have to say in the Bible which has convinced even unbelieving scholars. Ergo, it does not seem to matter a whole lot as to whether we have witnessed "those guys." On the other hand, what you have to say convinces only the gullible.

Did you ever consider the possibility that none among these people whom you have mentioned were commanded by the Lord to write anything about Him?

I have never suggested they were commanded to write anything. In fact, what I said was, the writings are simply the by-product of the authors living out their lives, and the authors never imagined that anyone else would ever read what they had to say, other than the intended audience at the time and they certainly had no idea about the Bible, and yet what they had to write has had the most significant impact in the history of the world, to the point that Jesus is the most recognized Name in history, and if it were not for what these men wrote, you would have never heard the Name of Jesus.

The Lord Jesus definitely told us that He did not command Moses to write any scriptures.

Moses has nothing to do with what we are talking about. So, I assume then that since Jesus told you all that He did not command Moses to write anything this would mean that Moses was a real historical figure?

A big no, of course! Ditch all that you have right now, except for one, retain your belief that there is truly God that exists because of the testimonies of the bible to the reality of God. That would be all, then come and call on to God, and wait for Him to respond.

That is not going to happen with me. The reason it is not going to happen with me, is because I am not that gullible.

Well, I think I have said enough, and we have seen enough to understand the falsehood you are typing out. However, there is one more thing I would like to point out which exposes you even more.

He didn't command us to travel, per se, but to make all nations His servants. We are from the Philippines, and you are from another country. What am I doing to you right now? One or two for each country is enough since those two will scatter to others in their place what I have scattered to them, and so on, until the Lord's command gets widely spread worldwide under the Lord's watch. This is where you'll see how the Lord shepherds a million people simultaneously under His power if you come to Him in the realm of His reality.

This is SO, SO, FUNNY! I just cannot stop laughing here. There is no doubt whatsoever that you got the idea about "going into all the world preaching the Gospel making disciples of all the nations" straight out of the Bible, because Jesus gave this command to the apostles, and it was recorded in the Bible. However, you have Jesus saying,

"Go forth and make all nations My servants and disciples"

You claim you were commanded to "Go forth" not "sit on your rear end and type away." I mean, do you really imagine you are "making disciples" of all nations by sitting on your rear end here on this site day, after day, week after week, month after month typing away? Do you happen to know how many nations are in the world? And here you are hour, after hour, day after day, week after week, month after month, and the only folks who are exposed to what you have to say are the folks on this site.

I am just telling you that not anything else has to be said in order to expose yourself, and the more you type the more you give away.

[OneJack]

[Replying to Realworldjack in post #191]

You just type words in order to type words, and they have no meaning. Anyone can say the above. Your problem is you do nothing to demonstrate what you say. On the other hand, I have indeed demonstrated that most of what you have shared with us, which you claim came from Jesus directly can be found in the Bible which you claim is not reliable, and all you have is "your words is so shaky that it can't with stand a 9.5 tremor on the Richer scale," with absolutely nothing whatsoever to back such a statement up.

I have shown you messages from the Lord Jesus that is/are not found in the bible, verbatim, and you acknowledged them. Yet you're here again with your shaky wordings, saying, 'On the other hand, I have indeed demonstrated that most of what you have shared with us, which you claim came from Jesus directly, can be found in the Bible. You haven't read all the messages the Lord has given us, and worse, you've heard nothing yet from the Lord Jesus, but you portray yourself as knowing everything about Jesus by your own wisdom based on the bible, which is not the Lord Jesus Christ. Does it mean that when the messages of the Lord Jesus today are found in the bible, they are only made-up stuff by the one who claims to have heard from the Lord? IF you say yes, where did you learn that notion from?

How in the world can you take it as an "attack" on you by me simply pointing out the fact that most all you have shared with us as far as what Jesus has revealed to you can be found in the Bible? That is not an attack. It is simply a fact.

Attack means refute in this forum, doesn't it? The problem with your notion of attacking my claim is that if you have not heard and learned it from God, thereby rendering your said notion nothing but a mere opinion coming from your own wisdom, which is irrelevant and weighs nothing of importance in spiritual aspects.

It sounds like nonsense because of the fact that it is nonsense to claim to hear directly from Jesus and all you have is what can be found in the Bible,

There you are with your shaky words again, can you show us where in the Bible we can find, verbatim, this teaching from the Lord Jesus today, saying,


'The events of Judgment will be terrifying. Everything we see in the universe will be destroyed and melt like ice. All planets, including the world, will explode and collapse. Nothing will remain standing, and everything will be destroyed. All creatures that have died, whether human, animal, or any living thing, will be resurrected. Those who are alive when Judgment comes will witness the terrifying fate of all. After a few seconds of resurrection, everyone will die again, including those who were brought back to life from their graves. And everyone will die! Then, all will be judged. Those who are not saved will be cast into a sea of fire, while those who are saved will be in eternal paradise, enjoying peace with God.'

along with some sort of conversation, between whom we are not told, in which sin is talked about in which you go on about how our "good deeds cannot save us" which we would have already known by reading the Bible.

If you had known them all in the bible, why were you still nailed to the bible instead of to the real and eternally living Christ Jesus, who is beside you/me/them all the time, though we do not see Him yet? If the wisdom coming from the real and eternally living Christ Jesus could be found in the bible, you would surely recognize the messages of the Lord today at the very first glance of it.

In other words, it is nonsense for one to insist they hear directly from Jesus and then go on to regurgitate what can be found in the Bible, and then go on to explain to us just how unreliable the Bible is which you are getting all of this from.

You have not witnessed anything of the Lord's way of shepherding that He has done to us; hence, you resorted to lies to counter what I have laid on this chat board. How can you prove that I regurgitated what can be found in the bible to show you that we've heard and learned from the Living God, whose name is Jesus? I vehemently deny your baseless accusation against us, knowing you've heard and learned nothing yet from the Lord, a fact that you can't deny, so far.

And you mostly only continue to claim to hear directly from Jesus, while at the same time simply regurgitating what is contained in the Bible.

Prove it, will you? What have you witnessed from me in this regard? Face the mirror to see that it's you who regurgitate everything in the bible, to prove and defend your faith.

Moreover, and again, you would have never known the name of Jesus if it had not been for the apostles, along with what is contained in the Bible.

This is a big lie since Jesus is the real and eternally living God, from whom everyone will learn and know God authentically. People who happen to read what I posted and decide to come to the Lord without even reading the bible, will surely know and learn from the Lord Jesus through Himself, when He responds. Why do you incapacitate the Lord in this regard?

I mean, think about what is going on here? You are insisting to hear directly from Jesus, all the while explaining to us how unreliable the Bible is, while at the same time regurgitating what we all can know by reading the Bible.

You're lying again with your shaky words. I have shown you messages from the Lord that cannot be found in the bible, verbatim. Despite that, you repeatedly fabricate lies to console your inability to recognize God's messages today.

Do you really want to talk about who is on "shaky ground?" GOOD GRIEF!

Prove your accusation first, will you?

And again, it is a fact beyond question that you would have never known the Name of Jesus if it were not for "the pages of the Bible." And that is a FACT! I mean, this is SO, SO, FUNNY!

I told you this is false because Jesus is real and forever living, and HE has varied ways in letting people know He exists, without the bible. We are now living witnesses to the Lord in this regard. The bible is a 'Johnny came lately' reading material about the Lord God. How do you expect people in those times, when the bible was not yet in existence, to know the existence of God? And for the people to whom I have shared the existence of the Lord Jesus today, who, later on, decided to come to Him, without the bible, would not the Lord respond to them, and teach and guide them to their salvation? How do you expect them to know the Lord if not from the Lord Himself, who may respond to their call? Would the Lord Jesus hide Himself to those who call on Him today to favor your 'inutile notion' of "if it were not from the pages of the bible you would have never known the name Jesus,' what do you think of the Lord Jesus, a flower vase?

You keep saying this over, and over, as if I hold the Bible in some sort of high regard, when I can demonstrate the fact that I have said right here on this site that "I wish the Bible had never been composed." How in the world can someone who says such a thing be understood as holding the Bible up as being God or Jesus?

Where then do you come from with your prosecutor's mode of refuting claim if you wish the bible had never been composed, and if you were not a Biblean (bible fanatic) either, in thoughts, deeds, and acts?

You are simply attempting to protect yourself here, because my whole point is simply the fact that you have chosen to claim to hear from Jesus directly because you know that you can continue to claim this to be the case and you are under the impression that this claim is not falsifiable. However, the more you type, the more we can see the falsehood in your claim. Because you see, you continue to scold me for holding the Bible in high regard, and at the same time you continue to share with us what you claimed to have heard from Jesus directly, and most of what you claim to have heard comes straight out of the Bible you are scolding me for having a high regard for. It is like, all I have to do is to continue to allow you to type away. The more you type, the more you give away.

You pushed the 'capability to perform miracles' in our discussion; hence, it's inevitable to cross-examine you in this context. You keep on saying these fabricated lies from your lips, saying, 'most of what you claim to have heard comes straight out of the Bible. ' Could you point us to where in the bible, verbatim, do you find what we have heard and learned from the Lord Jesus come straight from the bible?

.........In other words, and again, God has put Himself inside a box. This is absolutely no different than me saying that Jesus could indeed communicate directly with us but has decided to give us His ordained means to experience Him.

How do you say God has decided to give you His ordained means to experience Him? What exactly have you heard from God in this context?

The only difference between you and me is exactly how big the box is. My box says Jesus no longer communicates directly to any of us,

What box are you talking about here? Be specific with your narrative. What box is that?

while your box insists that He does communicate directly with you,

Not to me only, but to those who come to and call on Him in the right way, He, surely, still does.

but this is where the box stops, because He does not allow any of us to have any of the gifts that could be verified such as healing.

If you were not allowed by the Lord to have any of the gifts, in your wildest dream, that could be verified, such as healing, what would you have heard from Him, in particular, to put you on the side of the truth?

I am just telling you, you have to see the problem here. You complain about me putting God in a box, but your box for God stops just short of being able to be verified. How convenient is that?

I don't have a box for God; it's you who truly put God in a box. Why don't you ask God yourself about your problem with Him in this regard?
.

The only difference between us is I am not the one who put God in a box, rather I am simply reading where it is said that God put Himself in a box, while you are asking us to simply take your word for the fact that Jesus has told you that God has put Himself in a box.

You, not I, are the one who said 'God has put himself in a box,' don't you?

And here you are again telling us that God has put Himself inside a box, and the reason seems to be for our protection, and it is to keep us from seeking after the signs and wonders. And again, the only difference seems to be, I am getting what I am saying from what is contained in the Bible, while you are simply telling us that you are getting it straight from Jesus Himself.

Never did I say, 'God has put himself in a box;' the one who said that is no one but you, who are locked up in the bible. You give life to God through the pages of the bible coupled with your own opinion.

And yet, most all of what you claim to hear straight from Jesus can be found in the Bible you claim Jesus would not command us to preach from. The more you type, the more you expose yourself.

Did Jesus command you to preach the bible to your fellowmen? If what I have shared with you could be found, verbatim, in the bible, you would have come straight to the Lord and freed yourself from the influence of the bible.

One does not have to be God or Jesus in order to see that you cannot verify this direct line to Jesus you claim to have.

What????? You are the one who do not have the capability to recognize anything that is Jesus,' all you have is your opinion about the Lord based on the bible, which is not Jesus.

One does not have to face the mirror in order to know for a fact that you would have never known the name of Jesus if it were not for the pages of the Bible. One does not have to be God or Jesus in order to see that most all of what you claim to have heard from Jesus can be found in the Bible that Jesus would never command us to preach from. All one has to do is to continue to read what you type.

Prove what you are repeatedly fabricating in this context - lies, which you have not heard from God. This has been answered. Jesus is real and eternally living, who continues to speak with mankind across all generations, but the skeptics continue to ignore Him.

All of this according to what you say. On the other hand, what is contained in the Bible has had one of the most, if not the most significant impacts the world has ever known, and when compared to the impact of what you are attempting to sell, you are having virtually no impact at all, except for to expose yourself as a false prophet.

Judge rightly, and not according to your impulse and opinion you established for yourself via biblical passages. If you do not hear it from God, it's nothing but your opinion. The worst thing is when you press it hard on someone's head, that you possess the ability to recognize the truth and what is not, yet on top of it all, you have not yet heard anything from God.

I don't see what you are not getting. The apostles, and the Bible, who you claim cannot teach us anything, has had the most significant impact the world has ever known to the point it causes what little impact you are having to be nonexistent. Moreover, and again, most of what you claim to hear from Jesus directly comes straight from the teachings concerning Jesus according to the apostles, contained in the Bible, which you claim Jesus would never command us to preach from.

The bible, no matter how big the impact it has brought to the world, still has no bearing on your salvation, nor does it save anyone. By the way, my claim is nothing, but the one to whom I testify to still speak with mankind, across all generations, is the biggest impact at all because He is the only one who saves souls, and His name is Jesus.

And yet it is from what the authors have to say in the Bible which has convinced even unbelieving scholars. Ergo, it does not seem to matter a whole lot as to whether we have witnessed "those guys." On the other hand, what you have to say convinces only the gullible.

What does the belief of the convinced scholars have to do on your salvation, will you be saved because you allow yourself to be swept away by their beliefs?

..........and yet what they had to write has had the most significant impact in the history of the world, to the point that Jesus is the most recognized Name in history, and if it were not for what these men wrote, you would have never heard the Name of Jesus.

False, Jesus is real and alive, forever living, and He does not cease in communicating mankind across all generations; hence, people may know Him through Himself, even without the scriptures.

That is not going to happen with me. The reason it is not going to happen with me, is because I am not that gullible.

Gullible for what?

This is SO, SO, FUNNY! I just cannot stop laughing here. There is no doubt whatsoever that you got the idea about "going into all the world preaching the Gospel making disciples of all the nations" straight out of the Bible, because Jesus gave this command to the apostles, and it was recorded in the Bible. However, you have Jesus saying,

"Go forth and make all nations My servants and disciples"

You claim you were commanded to "Go forth" not "sit on your rear end and type away." I mean, do you really imagine you are "making disciples" of all nations by sitting on your rear end here on this site day, after day, week after week, month after month typing away? Do you happen to know how many nations are in the world? And here you are hour, after hour, day after day, week after week, month after month, and the only folks who are exposed to what you have to say are the folks on this site.

If there is a funny thing in here, that would be your opinion 'going into all the world preaching the Gospel ....' since there is no such thing in the bible, and in the Lord's command today. Read your bible well and come to the Lord Jesus for the truth about His command of making disciples.

Since the Lord explained to us that His name would reach all nations if one or two would believe and come to Him and then share to his/her fellowmen the things we've heard and learned from the Lord. It is likened to a disease spreading worldwide.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Thank you for a reasoned response.

Thanks Zzyzx. Nice to talk with you.

I don't have to take someone else's word for anything. I know it to be true.

HOW do you know?

I know because I hear His voice (Christ), because I know (and am known by) Him.

I could not hear His voice - He could not speak to me - if He were dead.

He is alive, and He speaks - as living beings DO.


**

This is personal testimony from me, yes. But for me, I know that He is alive - that He was resurrected. I'm not taking someone else's word for it. I know it to be true, from Him and from His Father (who drew me to His Son and gave me my faith.)


Peace again to you and to your loved ones,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[William]

[Replying to tam in post #193]

He is alive, and He speaks - as living beings DO.

Yet you did not supply any documentation re this relationship you have, when I asked you for it in your thread "Does Christ speak and how?". Nothing which shows the reader that what you say is true.

Now - personally - I have no trouble with your witness here tam. I can take you word for it as you give it. But it is what you don't give which I find unhelpful. I mean if Christ is telling you not to share his words with me, how does that assist with you and I having a relationship in Christ together?

Or perhaps that was never Christs point?

But then, why bother saying anything to anyone, or making the claims you do make?

[tam]

Peace to you William,

[Replying to tam in post #193]

He is alive, and He speaks - as living beings DO.

Yet you did not supply any documentation re this relationship you have, when I asked you for it in your thread "Does Christ speak and how?". Nothing which shows the reader that what you say is true.

I have to say that I am confused by yours (and OneJack's) statements that I have not shared anything from my Lord.

I've shared things from my Lord on the forum, and even in our discussions.

Now - personally - I have no trouble with your witness here tam. I can take you word for it as you give it. But it is what you don't give which I find unhelpful. I mean if Christ is telling you not to share his words with me, how does that assist with you and I having a relationship in Christ together?

I don't know how to answer that question because I have shared His words.

One particular time comes to mind. Do you remember some time back (perhaps years), I had shared why I do use the word Christian. I used to not use it - due to the 'bad rap' some give that word - but as I was explaining why, my Lord asked me if I was ashamed of Him?

You and I had an entire conversation about that.

Or perhaps that was never Christs point?

His point from what? I'm not sure what you are asking.

Christ comes first. For everyone in Christ - Christ comes first.

But then, why bother saying anything to anyone, or making the claims you do make?

To bear witness to Christ. Out of love for Him and His Father - and also any who may be seeking Him/them.

What anyone does with that is not up to me. Perhaps it helps someone who is seeking Him. Perhaps it gives someone else 'food for thought.' Perhaps it will help someone down the road, even years down the road. I know that I am thankful that witness was given to me.

**

In this thread, I simply answered the question Zzyzx asked.


Peace again to you.

[OneJack]

[Replying to tam in post #195]

I have to say that I am confused by yours (and OneJack's) statements that I have not shared anything from my Lord.

William is right, you've shared nothing yet from the utterances of the 'small still voice' spirit being till to date, why don't you repost what you're saying that you've shared, where are they? Let the 'small still voice' spirit being do the talking, Tammy dear

[William]

[Replying to tam in post #195]

I've shared things from my Lord on the forum, and even in our discussions.

I may have missed that.

Now, just to be clear here tam. What have you shared? I don't mean from the bible. I mean from "your Lord". A conversation you and your Lord have had. Please share. Verbatim.

[OneJack]

[Replying to tam in post #195]

Here are what you’ve shared, Tammy dear:

viewtopic.php?p=1177986#p1177986

The first time I heard the voice of my Lord, Jaheshua?

The first time I can remember hearing His voice was as a child in a "Sunday school class." The 'teachers' were making statements as if they knew them to be true (about what happens after someone dies), and He asked me 'how do they know what they are saying is true?'

I did not know He was speaking to me; I did not know He could speak back then. I was an adult before I realized that. But many years later when I learned that He is alive and does speak, the spirit brought that instance to mind.

He is the One who taught me to question what religion and religious leaders teach. And for me, that was unusual. I was not a person who questioned authority - EXCEPT for religious authority (my Lord taught me to do that.)

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He confirmed His name to me. Someone else used that name, having heard it from Him, but I knew for sure when my Lord confirmed it to me Himself.

(Keep in mind that some letters make different sounds in different languages. Here, the "J" is pronounced with a "y" sound. Same as the name of God is pronounced with the 'y' sound instead of the 'j' sound; all the "J" names we have in English from the bible would have been 'Y' or 'I' names, pronounced properly with the 'y' sound. Here is a very quick and easy article on the topic https://aish.com/js-replacing-ys-in-hebrew/)

So the name of the Son of God would not have been "Jesus". When I learned this, I stopped using that name, because I could not continue to use a name that I knew was false. I knew that Israel used (and uses) Yeshua, and that was closer. But I did not know how my Lord's name could have gone from Jaheshua (as a sister had shared) to Yeshua. So I asked my Lord, and He showed me (I will write what He showed me with the "Y" so the sound is correct at least):

Yaheshua
Y'eshua
Yeshua

See the Y with the apostrophe in the middle version? That is Yah (the name of God) being shortened to Y'. Then if you lose the apostrophe, you have Yeshua. Which is closer than "Jesus", but still not correct... it removes/hides the name of God, in whose name Christ came. And if the prophets before Christ had the name of God in THEIR names (EliJAH, JeremIAH, ZecharIAH, etc), how much more so would the Son of God, who came in the name of His Father?


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Many, some shared on this forum, some shared on other forums, some just for me (though I have shared most everything - not always with everyone, but at least with someone.)

I even shared with you on this very thread some of His words to me when I was a child in a Sunday school class.

I shared with you at the bottom of page 11 on this thread how He confirmed to me that His name is Jahehsua.

There is also one time that the spirit has brought to mind, when I was at a meeting out of love for my Lord, so that I could bear witness to my dear Lord before men and do as He has commanded: eat His flesh and drink His blood. (the leaders of this particular religion falsely teach their people that they should NOT eat or drink, despite Christ saying that ANYONE may do so.)

Before I left that meeting, I spoke to a man who I had known from previous years. I had always seen him smiling and happy before, but this year when I asked how he was, he was down. He spoke about things being hard (paraphrasing.) I told him before I left that I hoped things get better for him. Then, as I was driving home, my Lord asked me:

"Have I taught that you should just tell someone that you hope things will be better... or have I taught you to DO something to help them?"

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For the reader (if interested):

**

If desired, I would suggest doing a little research on the evolution of the name "Jesus." That is not what Christ would have been called in Israel a couple thousand years ago. In a best case scenario, the name "Jesus" went through a few different renditions to get to this rendition (from Aramaic to Greek to Latin to English).

But in English, the closest transliteration of the name of Christ would be Joshua - and that directly from the Aramaic. The Hebrew name that Joshua is derived from means JAH saves.

My dear Lord's name has the name of His Father in it as well. As did many of the prophets of old. And if the prophets of old had the name of God in their names, how much more so the Son, who came in the name of His Father?

ZecharIAH
JeremIAH
EliJAH - meaning, My God is JAH

And the phrase Hallelu'jah - means Praise JAH.

The meaning of the Son's name has the name of His Father as part of it (JAH saves/salvation of JAH, so that name MUST contain the name of the Father.)

Jah'eshua (JAH saves/savior of JAH)
——————————end———————

Could you shade in red the utterances of the ‘small still voice’ Spirit being if there are any, Tammy?

[Realworldjack]

[Replying to tam in post #171]

Jack, just because a person admits to not being able to interpret scripture ON THEIR OWN - does not mean they have not been able to understand what has been given them to understand.

Tammy, you are reading and interpreting what I am saying just fine, and the fact that you are able to communicate back to me in writing demonstrates you have the ability to interpret language. What is contained in the Bible is not some sort of magic. It is written communication just like you and I are having. You do not need the help of Jesus to interpret what I am saying, but for some strange reason you are under the impression that no one can interpret what is contained in the Bible on their own.

Here is the way I am seeing this. You claim to hear from Jesus directly. Since this is the case, I ask you to give me an interpretation of a passage of scripture. You realize you cannot afford to give an opinion on the passage since it would go a long way in demonstrating that you do not have this direct line to Jesus as you claim. Ergo, you decide to claim that you do not have the ability to interpret scripture, as if interpreting scripture is any different than interpreting what you are reading right now. There is no difference. Both what you are reading now, and what is contained in the Bible, is written language, and there is no hidden, magic interpretation of the scripture. No one needs the help of Jesus to interpret what is written in scripture. What we all need is to be raised from spiritual death in order to accept what we clearly understand as being true. In other words, I do not need the help of Jesus to interpret what the scripture has to say about the death, and resurrection of Jesus. I can understand what it says about the death and resurrection just fine, and so can you. But the thing is, I do not simply need help in order to accept the fact that the death and resurrection of Jesus atone for my sin, rather, I have to be raised from spiritual death to spiritual life. You are trying to make it out as though it is impossible to understand what the scripture has to say without the help of Jesus, when our understanding is just fine. It is the accepting of what we clearly understand that we need far more than help with. What we need is a miracle. In other words, it does not take an act of God to understand what scripture is saying, but it does take an act of God to accept what we clearly understand as being true about ourselves.

There are also things that are straightforward - that may require no interpretation at all.

Everything you read, and or hear as far as language is concerned has to be interpreted. Some things may be easy to interpret, while others are more difficult, but all language has to be interpreted in order to understand. The point is you seem to have no problem at all with interpreting language, but for some strange reason the language in the Bible you need help with.

Why would I go ahead and give MY OWN interpretation/understanding - without waiting on my Lord, the Spirit?

You do not hesitate to interpret what I have to say, and you do not seem to need help from Jesus in order to do so. Unless of course you want to tell us that Jesus is helping you in this debate. However, for some strange reason you are under the impression that no one can interpret the language in scripture without the help of Jesus.

I don't understand people who rely upon THEIR OWN interpretations. How can you be so confident in yourself?

You continue to talk about "MY OWN interpretation" as if I have a personal interpretation. I can tell you with confidence, that I do not have any confidence in myself. However, we all have been interpreting language since very early on in life, and it does not take a miracle to hear, read, and interpret language since it is accomplished by millions, upon millions, every day. However, you seem to be under the impression that it takes a miracle for one to understand what is being said in the Bible, while it is my position that it does not in any way take a miracle to understand what is being said, but it does take a miracle for one to come to the conclusion that what they clearly understand the Bible to be saying is true.

Again, it is not having confidence in myself, and my own abilities. As we have agreed there are some passages which may be in question as to the interpretation. When this occurs, we are not commanded to sit back and wait on the Lord to drop the meaning to us out of heaven. Rather, it takes a desire, and hard work in order to know what is being said. Here is exactly what Paul commanded Timothy.

"Study to show yourself approved by God, a workman who need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

Do you see that? Paul does not tell Timothy to wait upon the Lord to show him the interpretation. Rather, Paul tells Timothy to be a "workman." Again, the reason for this is because it takes hard work. Not sitting on your rear end waiting on the answer to fall from the sky. Paul tells Timothy to be a "workman" in order to "show himself approved of God" because it takes hard work, not sitting there hoping and wishing for God to drop the answer from heaven. Paul goes on to say, "rightly dividing the word of truth." Do you know what that means? Well, Paul was a tent maker, and he was using terminology from the tent making trade where you had to make sure you cut straight lines. Ergo, Paul is telling Timothy to "cut it straight."

Allow me to give you just one example of where I do not have confidence in myself, but rather have the desire, and put forth the effort in seeking the meanings of certain passages. There is a passage where Paul says to do good to your enemy for in doing so "you will heap coals of fire upon his head." This never made sense to me because it seems to be suggesting that we are to seek harm to our enemies, when you would think we would be seeking for our enemies to come to repentance. Well, after long diligent study of the passage, and attempting to understand the cultural background, you will discover Paul is quoting Proverbs, and if we were to go back to those times, what we would discover is, there was a practice at that time of folks carrying coals of fire upon their head as a sign of repentance. Ergo, repentance is exactly what Paul is referring to.

I will go on to say, this is not the only passage where this sort of thing has occurred. However, my problem is the fact that you seem to want to scold me for having so much confidence in myself, while at the same time you are showing so much confidence in your ability to hear from Jesus directly. In other words, you are attempting to shame me for doing the hard work it takes, while you sit back and claim you do not have the ability to interpret scripture in your own, because you have been blessed with a direct line to Jesus. Ergo, you are claiming not to have to do any hard work at all, since all you have to do is to sit back and wait. The damage that is being done is the fact that you are attempting to get folks to leave the idea that it takes hard work in order to come to an understanding and simply depend on some sort of mysterious interpretation falling from heaven.

This is a similar issue as 'walk by faith, not by sight.'

Paul might have been referring to himself and company when he said 'we' (or he might have been speaking of Christians in general.) But regardless of who he was physically addressing at that moment - the words themselves APPLY to all disciples and Christians.

That is not how it works. If we "rightly divide" the truth here, what we find is that Paul is only referring to himself and those traveling with him. That is "rightly dividing" what is being said. Paul is not instructing the Corinthians to walk by faith and not by sight, rather this again is part of the warning to the Corinthians. Paul does not explain what it would mean to walk by faith and not by sight, but you say this applies to us all. So then, you should be able to explain to us all what it means to walk by faith and not by sight, since you claim to be walking by faith and not by sight. We will be waiting on you to explain this to us. I can tell you this. It does not mean sitting back and waiting. However, the funny thing is, you claim not to have the ability to interpret scripture, but you continue to use scripture in your defense. How exactly does that work?

You argued for pages that 'I was wrong'. I didn't even quote Paul, I just said that Christians are called to walk by faith and not by sight.

REALLY? You are not going to attempt to sell to us that you had no idea that this was an exact quote from the Bible, are you? I can believe that you had no idea that it was Paul, because you do show an extreme lack of knowledge concerning what is contained in the Bible, but surely you are not going to attempt to sell to us that you had no idea this same exact phrase could be found in the Bible.

. But when I asked you if you thought instead that Christians are meant to walk by sight instead of faith, you replied that 'you never said that.'

Because, I never said that. What I was saying is, it can be demonstrated beyond doubt that when Paul penned the words, "we walk by faith and not by sight" he was not referring to us as Christians, and yet that is the way in which you use it, which demonstrates you are not rightly dividing what is being said.

So it seems Jack that you KNOW those words apply to more than just Paul and company.

Tammy, you are completely and utterly in error here. Go back and read the whole chapter and you will have to clearly see that Paul is only referring to himself, and those traveling with him. The verse which will demonstrate this to be the case is verse 13 where Paul says.

"If we are beside ourselves, it is for God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you."

Do you see that? Who is the "WE" in this verse? It is Paul & company. Who is the "YOU?" That would be the Corinthians. So then, it is clear beyond any doubt whatsoever that when Paul penned the words, "we walk by faith and not by sight" these words could not possibly apply to us. Where you are getting confused is, let us suppose we as Christians are called to walk by faith and not by sight. This would still not cause these words from Paul to apply to us, because it is clear that this was not Paul's intention when he penned the words. Your problem is the fact that this is the only passage in the Bible which has the phrase, "we walk by faith and not by sight." What I am demonstrating is, you have used a passage in order to defend your position which could not possibly apply to you.

Now, there are other passages in the Bible which talk about faith, such as in Hebrews. You know, like when the author talks about the faith of Abraham and how he had faith in the Promises of God despite the circumstances. In other words, God made a Promise to Abraham that Sarah would have a child, but the circumstance was the fact that Sarah was beyond childbearing age. However, Abraham believed God, meaning he had faith in the Promise. That is what it means to walk by faith, and not by sight. In other words, it is believing in the Promises God has made no matter the circumstances. Walking by faith, and not by sight has nothing whatsoever to do with believing God is going to drop the meaning of a passage of scripture to you out of heaven.

Same as 'come to me all you who are weary and burdened' applies to more than just the Jews at that time.

No, it does not! The earthly ministry of Jesus was confined to the Jewish people who were under the law, and it was to the Jewish people who were being burden by the law that Jesus said, "come unto Me all you who are weak and heavy ladened." After the earthly ministry of Jesus, He ascended into heaven and commanded his apostles (apostles actually means sent ones) into the world to spread the Gospel. The Gospel eventually went out to the gentiles, but the gentiles were never under the yoke of the law. Ergo, when Jesus said, "come unto me all who are weak and heavy laden" He was referring to the law as being a burden, and since only the Jews were under this burden it was a plea only to the Jewish people. Sure, the Gospel message continues to go out today, and there are those who receive salvation through the Gospel. However, unless they are Jewish continuing under the Jewish laws, they are not under the law Jesus was referring too, and so this call from Jesus could not possibly apply to them. The call of the Gospel which the apostles proclaimed goes out to all, but the "come unto Me all you who are weak and heavy laden" from the yoke of the law only applies to those who were, and or are under the law.

The fact that Jesus himself said, "I have come only for the house of Israel" demonstrates this to be only for the Jewish people. Moreover, it is a fact that even after the ascension, the apostles were under the impression that the Gospel was only for the Jewish people which further demonstrates your error. So then, we have Jesus who Himself says, He came only for the house of Israel, along with the apostles confining the message of the Gospel only to the house of Israel, and we can see that this plea of Jesus to "come unto Me all you who are weak and heavy laden" could have only been for the house of Israel."

He had more than just an 'earthly ministry' right?

No, He did not. Jesus came to earth "only for the house of Israel" just as He said. At the time of His ascension, He sent His apostles (which means sent ones) on their ministry. It was only then that the message of the Gospel went outside the house of Israel. Over, and over, we demonstrate your severe lack of knowledge of the things of God, and yet you claim to have a direct line to Jesus.

Christ came for the lost sheep of Israel. First the Jews (then also Samaritans because they are also descendants of Israel), but then also Gentiles after Israel rejected Him (though not all of Israel of course.)

Jesus came "for the lost sheep of Israel" and they rejected Him by agreeing to His crucifixion. This ended the earthly ministry of Jesus. It was only then, and years later, after much convincing that the message went out to the gentiles, but that would have not included, "come unto Me all you who are weak and heavy laden" since the gentiles were never under the law.

But the Body of Christ is made up of people from EVERY tribe, nation, tongue. Not just the 12 tribes of Israel.

You are correct, but this came years later, and years after the earthly ministry of Jesus. However, as we have demonstrated while Jesus was on the earth, His ministry by His own admission was confined to "the 12 tribes of Israel" who were under the law, and therefore the call to "come unto Me all you who are weak and heavy laden" could have only included the 12 tribes of Israel.

And what about His invitation (written in Revelation) inviting anyone who is thirsting and anyone who wishes to 'Come! Take the free gift of the water of Life."

First, when was Revelations authored? Was it during the earthly ministry of Jesus, or after? Next, you claim not to have the ability to interpret scripture but now are telling us you have the ability to interpret Revelations? Tammy, that math don't add. Either you do not have the ability to interpret scripture, or you do. There are some folks who claim to have the ability to interpret Revelations, but I do not buy it, and here you are, someone who outright admits to not being able to interpret scripture, giving us an interpretation of Revelations.

Jack, why would He not have compassion on His sheep today - including those who are weary and burdened?

His yoke is light for such ones also - He will also give such ones rest - He is calling for such ones to come to Him.

This is where you have some sort of brain lock. How in the world can acknowledging that the call from Jesus during His earthly ministry to "come unto me all you who are weak and heavy laden" was confined to the house of Israel, demonstrate a lack of compassion? Simply because this was a call to the house of Israel who was burdened by the law, does not negate the fact that salvation has now been offered to those outside the house of Israel who were never burdened by the law. How in the world did you come up with such an idea?

What damage do you think is being done? Where are you coming from with this?

I will tell you exactly where I am coming from. You are encouraging folks to read the scripture and apply it any way they wish, instead of encouraging them to do the hard work it takes to understand what is being said, who it is said to, along with who it applies to. Even worse is the false idea you are pushing which attempts to convince folks they do not have the ability to interpret scripture on their own, which would mean they need to let go of the hard work and simply sit back and wait until they hear from the Lord on the matter. Ergo, according to you, we should forget the "studying to show yourself approved of God." Instead, we sit back and wait. Moreover, when we run into folks who "study to show themselves approved of God" we can attack them as being folks who rely on their own understanding, who are so confident of themselves, and we can then go on to brag about how we do not have to do all that study, since we have been approved by the direct line to Jesus we have.

If that invitation does apply to others, then saying He is not calling such ones is doing damage to the truth.

What do you mean "IF?" You go from being so confident that it most definitely applies to all, to now saying "IF." If it does not (and I have demonstrated that it could not) then you are the one who is doing the damage by encouraging folks to interpret anyway they see fit, instead of encouraging them to do the hard work it takes to understand that Jesus even Himself said, "I have come only to the house of Israel" and this call was only the those who were under the Jewish law at the time, and it was many years later, after the earthly ministry of Jesus that the message of salvation went outside the house of Israel, to include those who were never under the burden of the law.

Jack, do you think He (Jaheshua) stopped calling people two thousand years ago?

As I have demonstrated, the above has nothing whatsoever to do with when Jesus said, "come unto Me all you who are weak and heavy laden." One would have nothing to do with the other. You see, you are trying to make it out as though if this call by Jesus was only to the house of Israel, this would be saying that the gentiles were never included in, when it does no such thing. You have to get the earthly ministry of Jesus correct and then move on to when the gentiles were included in, and when the gentiles are included in, this does not mean they could be included in everything Jesus said during His earthly ministry.

Little dogs (not meant as an insult)

Oh really? What is the difference between being referred to as a dog, as opposed to a little dog? How would you take it if you were referred to as a "little dog?" It seems to me the woman understood what was being said by her response, "even the dogs eat the crumbs from the masters table." Over, and over you demonstrate one who interprets in the way they wish things to be.

The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.

This is not for Jews only. This is for the one who thirsts (anyone), the one who wishes (anyone).

From any tribe, nation, people, tongue.

Again, when was the above authored? Was it during the earthly ministry of Jesus? Or after? The point is, the earthly ministry of Jesus was confined to the house of Israel, and it was years, and years later after Jesus had ascended, that the offer of salvation was given to those outside, but this does not mean that everything Jesus said during His earthly ministry would apply to all today, and yet this is exactly what you do, all the while admitting the fact that you cannot understand scripture. And yes, interpreting and understanding go hand in hand, since one cannot possibly understand what they cannot interpret.

Tammy, you show a severe lack of knowledge of what is contained in the Bible and claim to have a direct line to Jesus. You then want to go on to condemn those who actually give an effort in attempting to truly understand what is being said as "depending upon their own interpretation" while you are so confident in sitting back and waiting on your direct line of communication for your interpretation, the whole while using the scripture, which you claim not to be able to understand in order to defend the idea that you have this direct communication. You demonstrate over, and over the falsehood of your claim.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #171]

Jack, just because a person admits to not being able to interpret scripture ON THEIR OWN - does not mean they have not been able to understand what has been given them to understand.

Tammy, you are reading and interpreting what I am saying just fine, and the fact that you are able to communicate back to me in writing demonstrates you have the ability to interpret language. What is contained in the Bible is not some sort of magic. It is written communication just like you and I are having. You do not need the help of Jesus to interpret what I am saying, but for some strange reason you are under the impression that no one can interpret what is contained in the Bible on their own.

You are conflating reading comprehension skills with the ability to apply a secondary meaning to what is actually being said.

My reading comprehension skills are just fine.

But there are things that have to be interpreted - parables, spiritual matters, visions, dreams, imagery (such as in Revelation.) Even you admitted that you do not have the ability to interpret Revelation.

So why all the incredulity when I claim that I cannot interpret on my own?

I don't understand people who rely upon THEIR OWN interpretations. How can you be so confident in yourself?

You continue to talk about "MY OWN interpretation" as if I have a personal interpretation.

I can tell you with confidence, that I do not have any confidence in myself. However, we all have been interpreting language since very early on in life, and it does not take a miracle to hear, read, and interpret language since it is accomplished by millions, upon millions, every day. However, you seem to be under the impression that it takes a miracle for one to understand what is being said in the Bible, while it is my position that it does not in any way take a miracle to understand what is being said, but it does take a miracle for one to come to the conclusion that what they clearly understand the Bible to be saying is true.

Again, it is not having confidence in myself, and my own abilities. As we have agreed there are some passages which may be in question as to the interpretation. When this occurs, we are not commanded to sit back and wait on the Lord to drop the meaning to us out of heaven. Rather, it takes a desire, and hard work in order to know what is being said. Here is exactly what Paul commanded Timothy.

"Study to show yourself approved by God, a workman who need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

Do you see that?

Do YOU see that?

A - You are giving an interpretation of these words from Paul to Timothy, but you are ignoring the fact that Christ opened the minds of the apostles to be able to understand the scriptures. They did not understand on their own. You are also forgetting that Christ EXPLAINED the meaning of the parables to the apostles (again, they did not understand on their own.)

See also John 5:39 AND 40

B - On the one hand, you are taking words written to one person and applying those words to yourself (and others) today. On the other hand and at the exact same time, you claim that nothing in the bible applies to you or I today.

Allow me to give you just one example of where I do not have confidence in myself, but rather have the desire, and put forth the effort in seeking the meanings of certain passages. There is a passage where Paul says to do good to your enemy for in doing so "you will heap coals of fire upon his head." This never made sense to me because it seems to be suggesting that we are to seek harm to our enemies, when you would think we would be seeking for our enemies to come to repentance. Well, after long diligent study of the passage, and attempting to understand the cultural background, you will discover Paul is quoting Proverbs, and if we were to go back to those times, what we would discover is, there was a practice at that time of folks carrying coals of fire upon their head as a sign of repentance. Ergo, repentance is exactly what Paul is referring to.

That understanding is more in line with what Christ taught (and did.)

We can hold Paul's words up to Christ (even though Paul is quoting proverbs), and at least get a sense of the idea that by doing good to one's enemy, that enemy will (or at least may) realize that they are wrong, be ashamed of their own behavior, and hopefully be won over.

I did not do the research that you did - but I know from Christ's words that we are to pray for our enemies, bless those who curse us, forgive and be merciful. So I know we can't be hoping that our enemies will be condemned.

I will go on to say, this is not the only passage where this sort of thing has occurred. However, my problem is the fact that you seem to want to scold me for having so much confidence in myself, while at the same time you are showing so much confidence in your ability to hear from Jesus directly.

I am not scolding you. I do not understand it. Exactly as I said.

As for me - it is not confidence in myself or my abilities. It is faith in my Lord Jaheshua (not Jesus) and in my Father in heaven. I am depending on my Lord. Not upon myself.

In other words, you are attempting to shame me for doing the hard work it takes,

I'm not saying you are wrong to do research. I'm not even saying 'don't do research'. I have done research. My Lord has also directed me to research and learn various things.

But doing it on your own may or may not lead you to the correct conclusion. You can be wrong regardless of how much work you put into it. Others have put as much work as you into their studies and come to different conclusions than you.

I know that I need my Lord.

This is a similar issue as 'walk by faith, not by sight.'

Paul might have been referring to himself and company when he said 'we' (or he might have been speaking of Christians in general.) But regardless of who he was physically addressing at that moment - the words themselves APPLY to all disciples and Christians.

That is not how it works. If we "rightly divide" the truth here, what we find is that Paul is only referring to himself and those traveling with him. That is "rightly dividing" what is being said. Paul is not instructing the Corinthians to walk by faith and not by sight, rather this again is part of the warning to the Corinthians. Paul does not explain what it would mean to walk by faith and not by sight, but you say this applies to us all. So then, you should be able to explain to us all what it means to walk by faith and not by sight, since you claim to be walking by faith and not by sight. We will be waiting on you to explain this to us.

First - and the spirit has just reminded me of this - Paul may have been writing to the Corinthians and describing his faith (that he walks by faith and not by sight, among other things), but he ALSO tells the Corinthians to follow his example (1 Corinthians 11:1), and the author of Hebrews says to his audience to imitate the faith of those who came first (Hebrews 13:7.)

Paul describing what he does is not a brag - nor is he excluding the Corinthians from doing the same. Because he also tells them - specifically tells the same people - to imitate him, as he imitates Christ.

If Paul & Company walk by faith and not by sight, then the Corinthians are to do the SAME THING.


**

What does it mean to walk by faith and not by sight?


It means you are not depending upon your eyes or the things you can see and behold.

We don't see Christ with our physical eyes - but we can hear Him, and we can know that He is alive.

We don't yet see all the things promised - but we know they are true and will come to pass, based on faith in Christ and His Father, based on what we have heard.

For example:

By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. (Hebrews 11 - in fact the whole chapter is a good read.)

Noah did not see the flood (until it happened), but he heard that it would happen and he believed the One who told him, and he obeyed. He walked - and lived - by faith.


May anyone who wishes them be given ears to hear, so that you may hear the truth of this or any matter from the One who is the Truth: Christ Jaheshua. May anyone who thirsts and anyone who wishes, "Come! Take the free gift of the water of Life!"


Peace again to you and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy