The fulness of God

[placebofactor]

What do the Scriptures mean when they talk about Christ being in "fullness?" And what is better, the whole or the full? Let's begin with an examination of the Greek word for fullness, which pretty much appears to be self-explanatory. As a metaphor, the word fullness in the following verses means, in full measure, abundance, and completeness, such as leaving nothing more to be desired.

John 1:16, "Of His (Christ's) fullness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."

Ephesians 3:19, "To know the love of Christ, which passes knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fullness of God."

Here’s the question: “Does it prove that Jesus is not fully God, because the verse says that a Christian individual can be filled with the fullness of God?” Does this logic contain a common theological misunderstanding known as a category error or a confusion between participation and essence?

The word for "fullness" in these verses is “plērōma.” It does not mean "a part of something greater." It means the totality, the total, or the complete expression of what something is.

Ephesians 1:23, the Church is called the "fullness" of Christ, meaning it is the vessel that completes His expression on earth, not that the Church is Christ.

In Colossians 1:19 and 2:9, that in Christ, "All the fullness of God was pleased to dwell,” and in Colossians 2:9, "in Him all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”

So, is the logic that "If I am filled with God’s fullness, am I God?" If mortals can be filled with the fullness of God, Ephesians 3:19, then Christ cannot be unique or fully God, because we share that status is incorrect for two reasons:

Jesus Christ is the Fullness by nature. He possesses the fullness of the Father intrinsically and eternally. He is the source. But believers are filled with the fullness of God derivatively. We receive grace from Him, John 1:16: "Of His fullness have all we received.”

I think of it like this: If a lightbulb is plugged into a power station, it receives electricity. But the bulb does not become the power station. The power station is the source; the bulb is the recipient. The bulb can be "filled" with light, but it does not possess the essence of the power plant.

Similarly, believers are filled with God’s life, love, and Spirit, but we do not become, in essence, God. We are sanctified participants, not divine creators.

Ephesians 3:19 is About Love, not Divinity. "To know the love of Christ... that ye might be filled with all the fullness of God."

This "fullness" refers to being complete in character and spiritual maturity, not becoming divine beings. It means we are filled with God’s attributes, his love, joy, and peace so that we lack nothing spiritually. It is about moral and spiritual completeness, not metaphysical identity.

When Scripture says Christ is in "fullness," it means He lacks nothing divine. He is not a "partial" God or an angel. He is the complete revelation of the Father. He embodies the totality of His Father’s nature. As Colossians 2:9 states, the entirety of God’s divine nature dwells in Him. And lastly, He is the source of our fullness. John 1:16 shows that our "fullness" is derived from His. He gives; we receive.

So, the Bible doesn’t say we become God because we’re filled with His fullness. It says we’re filled with His life, love, and Spirit, but only because Christ, who is God, shares it with us.

[Mr E]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

What do the Scriptures mean when they talk about Christ being in "fullness?" And what is better, the whole or the full? Let's begin with an examination of the Greek word for fullness, which pretty much appears to be self-explanatory. As a metaphor, the word fullness in the following verses means, in full measure, abundance, and completeness, such as leaving nothing more to be desired.

John 1:16, "Of His (Christ's) fullness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."

Ephesians 3:19, "To know the love of Christ, which passes knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fullness of God."

Here’s the question: “Does it prove that Jesus is not fully God, because the verse says that a Christian individual can be filled with the fullness of God?” Does this logic contain a common theological misunderstanding known as a category error or a confusion between participation and essence?

The word for "fullness" in these verses is “plērōma.” It does not mean "a part of something greater." It means the totality, the total, or the complete expression of what something is.

Ephesians 1:23, the Church is called the "fullness" of Christ, meaning it is the vessel that completes His expression on earth, not that the Church is Christ.

In Colossians 1:19 and 2:9, that in Christ, "All the fullness of God was pleased to dwell,” and in Colossians 2:9, "in Him all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”

So, is the logic that "If I am filled with God’s fullness, am I God?" If mortals can be filled with the fullness of God, Ephesians 3:19, then Christ cannot be unique or fully God, because we share that status is incorrect for two reasons:

Jesus Christ is the Fullness by nature. He possesses the fullness of the Father intrinsically and eternally. He is the source. But believers are filled with the fullness of God derivatively. We receive grace from Him, John 1:16: "Of His fullness have all we received.”

I think of it like this: If a lightbulb is plugged into a power station, it receives electricity. But the bulb does not become the power station. The power station is the source; the bulb is the recipient. The bulb can be "filled" with light, but it does not possess the essence of the power plant.

Similarly, believers are filled with God’s life, love, and Spirit, but we do not become, in essence, God. We are sanctified participants, not divine creators.

Ephesians 3:19 is About Love, not Divinity. "To know the love of Christ... that ye might be filled with all the fullness of God."

This "fullness" refers to being complete in character and spiritual maturity, not becoming divine beings. It means we are filled with God’s attributes, his love, joy, and peace so that we lack nothing spiritually. It is about moral and spiritual completeness, not metaphysical identity.

When Scripture says Christ is in "fullness," it means He lacks nothing divine. He is not a "partial" God or an angel. He is the complete revelation of the Father. He embodies the totality of His Father’s nature. As Colossians 2:9 states, the entirety of God’s divine nature dwells in Him. And lastly, He is the source of our fullness. John 1:16 shows that our "fullness" is derived from His. He gives; we receive.

So, the Bible doesn’t say we become God because we’re filled with His fullness. It says we’re filled with His life, love, and Spirit, but only because Christ, who is God, shares it with us.

Good topic.

It proves the point-- a person can be full of it, without becoming it.

Such was the case with the man Jesus, just as it is the case with all of us. All of us (Christians) can be full of it (Christ). --or a least a little of it. (little Christs).

Your analogy of the light bulb is a good one. The bulb is not the light. The light comes from a higher power, a different source. Jesus was the bulb. God-- through anointing, empowered Jesus.

It's what's inside that counts. When we speak of a good bottle of wine (following @1213 's example) we truly can ignore the bottle and focus on the wine inside it, while the bottle is eventually cast aside, but the wine is what is good and what we partake of.

[Mr E]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #3]

"God manifest in the flesh."

A manifest is a declaration of contents. For example a ship's manifest is a list of everything that ship is carrying- it's cargo and contents. For God to be manifest "in the flesh" is for God to be "in" the flesh. It doesn't make the flesh God. Jesus was a man-- flesh. God is spirit. -And the kingdom of God is within... manifestly. The ship (man) can be hauling diamonds or dung--- same ship.

[OneJack]

[1213 post_id=1191029 time=1786111464 user_id=7135]

If Jesus is the God and who is the one who says: "Sit on my right hand", in Matt. 22:43-45?

43. He said to them, “How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him ‘Lord’? For he says,

44 “‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I put your enemies
under your feet.”’[e]

45 If then David calls him ‘Lord,’ how can he be his son?”


The apostles called the Son of God, per se, Lord, didn't they? The Son of God, per se, was a man born of Mary, and he was the physical vessel of God in His incarnation. The Father, whose name is Immanuel, Eternal Father, or Jesus, was the Spirit and Life dwelling in the Son of God (John 14:10-11) during God's incarnation. Therefore, David, speaking by the Spirit, calls the Son, per se, Lord, as did the apostles.

Those scriptures don't say God's name is Jesus, they say:

And He said, Hear now, O house of David, is it too little that you weary men, but will you also weary my God?
Isaiah 7:13
For a Child is born; to us a Son is given; and the government is on His shoulder; and His name is called Wonderful, Counselor, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 7:13
And she will bear a son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
Matt 1:21

You miss the important connections here, which are verses 22 and 23, which say:

22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23 “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel”[g] (which means “God with us”).

The fulfillment of Isa 7:14 is Matt 1: 21; hence, Immanuel in the OT is the Almighty God, and in the NT the Almighty God is known as Jesus.

[OneJack]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #3]

"God manifest in the flesh."

A manifest is a declaration of contents. For example a ship's manifest is a list of everything that ship is carrying- it's cargo and contents. For God to be manifest "in the flesh" is for God to be "in" the flesh. It doesn't make the flesh God. Jesus was a man-- flesh. God is spirit. -And the kingdom of God is within... manifestly. The ship (man) can be hauling diamonds or dung--- same ship.

The statement in bold is perfect and without error, but the succeeding one is in full error, where it says, 'Jesus was a man-- flesh.' It should read, 'The Son of God, per se, was a man - flesh.' Jesus, per se, is the name of God the Almighty; hence, Jesus is the Almighty God. Jesus was in the flesh of the Son of God during His (Jesus') incarnation.

[JehovahsWitness]

[1213 post_id=1191029 time=1786111464 user_id=7135]

If Jesus is the God and who is the one who says: "Sit on my right hand", in Matt. 22:43-45?

... David, speaking by the Spirit, calls the Son, per se, Lord

So "the Son" is still alive and sitting in heaven ?

[OneJack]

[1213 post_id=1191029 time=1786111464 user_id=7135]

If Jesus is the God and who is the one who says: "Sit on my right hand", in Matt. 22:43-45?

... David, speaking by the Spirit, calls the Son, per se, Lord

So "the Son" is still alive and sitting in heaven ?

Where does that notion emanate from? The Son’s role is done, and he (Son, per se) is long gone. No one is in heaven but the real and forever living Christ Jesus.

[JehovahsWitness]

If Jesus is the God and who is the one who says: "Sit on my right hand", in Matt. 22:43-45?

... (Son, per se) is long gone. No one is in heaven but the real and forever living Christ Jesus.

So who was alive in heaven for God to command to sit at his right hand as David by spirit tells us ?

[OneJack]

If Jesus is the God and who is the one who says: "Sit on my right hand", in Matt. 22:43-45?

... (Son, per se) is long gone. No one is in heaven but the real and forever living Christ Jesus.

So who was alive in heaven for God to command to sit at his right hand as David by spirit tells us ?

That was only a vision. See what Jesus said in verse 64,

64. Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

[JehovahsWitness]

If Jesus is the God and who is the one who says: "Sit on my right hand", in Matt. 22:43-45?

... (Son, per se) is long gone. No one is in heaven but the real and forever living Christ Jesus.

So who was alive in heaven for God to command to sit at his right hand as David by spirit tells us ?

That was only a vision. ...

Who (in vision) was alive to be told by God to sit at his right hand ?

[OneJack]

If Jesus is the God and who is the one who says: "Sit on my right hand", in Matt. 22:43-45?

... (Son, per se) is long gone. No one is in heaven but the real and forever living Christ Jesus.

So who was alive in heaven for God to command to sit at his right hand as David by spirit tells us ?

That was only a vision. ...

Who (in vision) was alive to be told by God to sit at his right hand ?

That is yet to come; the Son’s body is still alongside Moses’ in the Ark of the Covenant awaiting Judgment Day.