Why did God create Lucifer???

[The Humanist Manifesto]

Why would God create Lucifer if He already knew that he would become the Devil?


He knew he would become the Devil because he is all-knowing.



The freewill argument doesnt work here because God is all knowing....he knew he would do that. So why would God create the Devil?

[twobitsmedia]

Why would God create Lucifer if He already knew that he would become the Devil?


He knew he would become the Devil because he is all-knowing.



The freewill argument doesnt work here because God is all knowing....he knew he would do that. So why would God create the Devil?

Pure guess: God couldn't possibly take the blame for all that is wrong in the world. He couldn't be attributed to creating an imperfect creation of sinners. So rather than step up and take His share of the burden, He cast the cause on evil, the devil to be exact.

We also have to remember that God couldn't create a perfect creation because then He wouldn't be the only perfect thing. God needed to create an imperfect creation to give credence to His perfection.

What makes you think that God is done creating?

Since I favor evolution over God, I would have to say that evolution is anything but over.

Well, I don't believe in evolution, but I also don't see any indication that God stopped creating, which might suggest that we are still in the "creation" period. God will complete His perfect creations at the end of time.

Ummm, didn't God stop creating after the 6th day (humor). Don't want to hijack this thread by getting off topic.

It says He rested on the seventh day. Does not say He stopped. After each day of creation, the phrase of description is "it was good." There is a word for "perfect" in Hebrew, so since "good" was used repeatedly, there had to be some kind of reason "good" was used instead of "perfect." If a perfect God would create a perfect creation, then there is no such description of such a creation until Revelation when this earth has ended. If this life were just a test, as some suggest, then we all already failed when we were told "all have sinned and fall short." So, it is possible that we are still in the creation process, kind of "without form and void" as the earth is described in the beginning. There iust no indication how long this formless void called earth existed before God created light on the first day.

[Confused]

It says He rested on the seventh day. Does not say He stopped. After each day of creation, the phrase of description is "it was good." There is a word for "perfect" in Hebrew, so since "good" was used repeatedly, there had to be some kind of reason "good" was used instead of "perfect." If a perfect God would create a perfect creation, then there is no such description of such a creation until Revelation when this earth has ended. If this life were just a test, as some suggest, then we all already failed when we were told "all have sinned and fall short." So, it is possible that we are still in the creation process, kind of "without form and void" as the earth is described in the beginning. There iust no indication how long this formless void called earth existed before God created light on the first day.

I will have to give this some thought. But the post I wrote was more for humor because I didn't want to change the topic of the OP. But you offer some interesting insight that may warrant a new thread. I need to think on it, but if you have some ideas, feel free to start the thread, I would like to work through this.

[Enquiring Mind]

Why would God create Lucifer if He already knew that he would become the Devil?


He knew he would become the Devil because he is all-knowing.



The freewill argument doesnt work here because God is all knowing....he knew he would do that. So why would God create the Devil?

Pure guess: God couldn't possibly take the blame for all that is wrong in the world. He couldn't be attributed to creating an imperfect creation of sinners. So rather than step up and take His share of the burden, He cast the cause on evil, the devil to be exact.

We also have to remember that God couldn't create a perfect creation because then He wouldn't be the only perfect thing. God needed to create an imperfect creation to give credence to His perfection.

What makes you think that God is done creating?

Since I favor evolution over God, I would have to say that evolution is anything but over.

Well, I don't believe in evolution, but I also don't see any indication that God stopped creating, which might suggest that we are still in the "creation" period. God will complete His perfect creations at the end of time.

Ummm, didn't God stop creating after the 6th day (humor). Don't want to hijack this thread by getting off topic.

It says He rested on the seventh day. Does not say He stopped. After each day of creation, the phrase of description is "it was good." There is a word for "perfect" in Hebrew, so since "good" was used repeatedly, there had to be some kind of reason "good" was used instead of "perfect." If a perfect God would create a perfect creation, then there is no such description of such a creation until Revelation when this earth has ended. If this life were just a test, as some suggest, then we all already failed when we were told "all have sinned and fall short." So, it is possible that we are still in the creation process, kind of "without form and void" as the earth is described in the beginning. There iust no indication how long this formless void called earth existed before God created light on the first day.

twobits -

I like wwhat you've written. I believe that it's spot on. I also believe that Lucifer is part of that process we're going through towards "perfection".

[ithinkthereforeiam]

Why would God create Lucifer if He already knew that he would become the Devil?


He knew he would become the Devil because he is all-knowing.



The freewill argument doesnt work here because God is all knowing....he knew he would do that. So why would God create the Devil?

Why would a PERFECT god create imperfect things (ie. humans and the devil)?

How can you have freewill, when you are threatened with eternal damnation if you don't follow the orders of god? During the Inquisition when people were being asked whether they were witches, they had freewill to say no and be tortured; or answer yes and be killed quickly. Is that really freewill?

Maybe Lucifer was a freedom fighter rebelling against the dictator - god. Regardless if god is all powerful, as soon as Lucifer got out of line he could have made him not exist anymore, but he chose not to.

[Enquiring Mind]

Why would God create Lucifer if He already knew that he would become the Devil?


He knew he would become the Devil because he is all-knowing.



The freewill argument doesnt work here because God is all knowing....he knew he would do that. So why would God create the Devil?

Why would a PERFECT god create imperfect things (ie. humans and the devil)?

How can you have freewill, when you are threatened with eternal damnation if you don't follow the orders of god? During the Inquisition when people were being asked whether they were witches, they had freewill to say no and be tortured; or answer yes and be killed quickly. Is that really freewill?

Maybe Lucifer was a freedom fighter rebelling against the dictator - god. Regardless if god is all powerful, as soon as Lucifer got out of line he could have made him not exist anymore, but he chose not to.

Interesting observations indeed. Why would the Lord create something like Lucifer? If, however, Lucifer was part of a larger plan. then it becomes understandable.
Say, for instance, that Lucifer's "mission" in life were to make life for us (mankind) as miserable as possible with the intent of "driving" us to lose our sins. Then Lucifer's role becomes clearer. Your example ("...During the Inquisition when people were being asked whether they were witches, they had freewill...") has interesting implications as well.
So, it may be that every man and woman has free will. Every man and woman has choices to make. It's just that each man and woman must live with the consequences of his or her choice. Hmmmm...I think I've heard that truism elsewhere...

[Confused]

Why would God create Lucifer if He already knew that he would become the Devil?


He knew he would become the Devil because he is all-knowing.



The freewill argument doesnt work here because God is all knowing....he knew he would do that. So why would God create the Devil?

If God didn't have an anti-God, then how could we judge any spectrum of good vs evil? Scripture, taken literally, says that lucifer defied God, undermined Him, and as a result was thrown to earth. He represents everything God is against. But how can man blame evil on lucifer if lucifer didn't fall until after the creation of man. In Job, satan challenges Gods assessment of the devoutness of Job. Now, if lucifer and satan are one, then how can lucifer continue to have a conversation with God after being thrown from heaven? Cast out from the glory of God. God wouldn't recognize his presence. However, taken literally, there is no evidence that lucifer is satan.

Taken metaphorically, perhaps satan is the anti-God within each of us. St Augustine was critical to those who tried to interpret the "end of time" and categorize the "antichrist". He implied that one must search within to find the antichrist in each of us. It is there that the battle for the soul, the battle between good and evil, shall be fought.

[Enquiring Mind]

Why would God create Lucifer if He already knew that he would become the Devil?


He knew he would become the Devil because he is all-knowing.



The freewill argument doesnt work here because God is all knowing....he knew he would do that. So why would God create the Devil?

If God didn't have an anti-God, then how could we judge any spectrum of good vs evil? Scripture, taken literally, says that lucifer defied God, undermined Him, and as a result was thrown to earth. He represents everything God is against. But how can man blame evil on lucifer if lucifer didn't fall until after the creation of man. In Job, satan challenges Gods assessment of the devoutness of Job. Now, if lucifer and satan are one, then how can lucifer continue to have a conversation with God after being thrown from heaven? Cast out from the glory of God. God wouldn't recognize his presence. However, taken literally, there is no evidence that lucifer is satan.

Taken metaphorically, perhaps satan is the anti-God within each of us. St Augustine was critical to those who tried to interpret the "end of time" and categorize the "antichrist". He implied that one must search within to find the antichrist in each of us. It is there that the battle for the soul, the battle between good and evil, shall be fought.

Confused -

I find your latter supposition intriguing ("...perhaps satan is the anti-God within each of us..."). I would argue that the scripture that states that Lucifer was "thrown down from heaven" may, in fact, be incorrect. I believe that there is a real possibility that Lucifer is actually an agent of the Lord. Lucifer's mission, if you will, is to prod mankind with a "cattle prod" to get us to release our sins and come, hopefully, to love the Lord.
Lucifer and His "helpers", then. set up conditions for each individual on this planet which have the best chance of simultaneously progressing mankind as a whole toward perfection as well as the individual (thus actions and events that impact specific people are specifically tailored for them to get them to "progress"). In that manner, each individual battles evil and good within him- or herself. This is along the same lines you mention, Confused, and why I find your statement so intriguing.
As far as the Antichrist and "end of times" - I believe that those are/will be real. They are all part of the larger plan to bring as many of us (if not all!) to perfection by having us "battle" our individual sins. Armageddon, then, becomes a "critical mass", if you will, that all of mankind must get through to enjoy the bliss that lies beyond. Once beyond, human culture will be such to sustain the kind of environment that will actively encourage work towards perfection without undue involvement from above - in other words, it will be on Earth as it is in heaven...

[Confused]

Confused -

I find your latter supposition intriguing ("...perhaps satan is the anti-God within each of us..."). I would argue that the scripture that states that Lucifer was "thrown down from heaven" may, in fact, be incorrect. I believe that there is a real possibility that Lucifer is actually an agent of the Lord. Lucifer's mission, if you will, is to prod mankind with a "cattle prod" to get us to release our sins and come, hopefully, to love the Lord.
Lucifer and His "helpers", then. set up conditions for each individual on this planet which have the best chance of simultaneously progressing mankind as a whole toward perfection as well as the individual (thus actions and events that impact specific people are specifically tailored for them to get them to "progress"). In that manner, each individual battles evil and good within him- or herself. This is along the same lines you mention, Confused, and why I find your statement so intriguing.
As far as the Antichrist and "end of times" - I believe that those are/will be real. They are all part of the larger plan to bring as many of us (if not all!) to perfection by having us "battle" our individual sins. Armageddon, then, becomes a "critical mass", if you will, that all of mankind must get through to enjoy the bliss that lies beyond. Once beyond, human culture will be such to sustain the kind of environment that will actively encourage work towards perfection without undue involvement from above - in other words, it will be on Earth as it is in heaven...

Would your view of Lucifer then support an ongoing nature of Job? Lucifer has reign to inflict as much damage has he wants on mans external factors, but he cannot actually touch the man? He can challenge our faith based on damage he can inflict, but he cannot personally damage us? Taking Job metaphorically, this might be consistent in this line of thought. But it is still an external source of evil.

In regards to the antichrist. I just don't see it. I cannot see Daniel, Revelations, etc.. as literal. Yes, I am atheist. But I do have a mind and can read. I don't understand how any of it can be taken as literal. For such events to occur would have to go directly against the teachings of Christ. I am more inclined to agree with Augustine and look more for the internal workings of evil. The antichrist in all of us. The part that cause one to sin even though one knows it is a sin they are committing.

[kal-el]

Why would God create Lucifer if He already knew that he would become the Devil?

That's the million dollar question. Why????? The facts all point toward God being a despot or sadist, and a person need not to look no further than the very first story in the bible where our creator sets humanity up.

He knew he would become the Devil because he is all-knowing.

True. In that case, he cannot be omnibenevolent.

The freewill argument doesnt work here because God is all knowing....he knew he would do that. So why would God create the Devil?

Let's see. Satan drops a house on Job's family, with God's approval, he never disciplined Satan for this, so all facts point towards God's approval. Being all-knowing does not negate free will, however being all-knowing, all-powerful, and benevolent does. Por ejemplo, he can know that Hitler would kill all those Jews, and if He's all-powerful can stop it, and if he doesn't want to he's not loving. Just being all-knowing and nothing else, means he knew that Hitler would commit genocide, but was impotent to stop it.

[Easyrider]

Why would God create Lucifer if He already knew that he would become the Devil?

That's the million dollar question. Why????? The facts all point toward God being a despot or sadist, and a person need not to look no further than the very first story in the bible where our creator sets humanity up.

Why did God create Satan?

God created Satan as Lucifer, the highest ranking angel of all. Lucifer, however, wasn’t content to worship and serve his Creator. Full of pride, he rebelled, leading a third of the angels. Unable to match the Almighty God, Lucifer was cast to the earth where he has operated as the devil ever since.

The biblical passages of Job, Isaiah 14:12-15, Matthew 4:3-10, and Revelation 12:7-12 provide a glimpse of Satan’s history and character.

God did not create Lucifer as evil but allowed the potential for sin. While God cannot commit sin, He doesn’t take it away from those who do. When Lucifer chose to rebel, he instantly became the author of sin. Evil is the result of a free-will choice by Lucifer.

Satan and sin don’t foil God’s divine purposes. Evil in stark contrast to good, shows God’s mercy to whom He chooses to provide salvation. God uses evil and demons for His divine purposes (1 Samuel 16:15-16).

Satan fears God’s predestined plan: salvation, new heaven, and new earth for His chosen people who are made holy, perfectly moral, and volitionally loving. He will prove that He is victorious over evil and evil beings who follow Satan’s ways. (allaboutgod.com)