Is the Christian world view really one of hope?

[TruthSeeker1]

Christians on this site and elsewhere continually preach the idea that the Christian religion is one of hope. Many go so far as to say that those who are not Christian have no hope, only with the Christian viewpoint can one have a hopeful life.

The Christian has to accept that while he may be "saved", many others including non-believing family members and friends are destined for an eternity of torment. Does it really bring more "hope" for Christians to know that a few will enjoy eternal bliss while billions of others including most of the world's impoverished will be eternally tortured?

The question for debate: Is it really honest to call the Christian belief system one of hope?

[OnceConvinced]

A good God will give us freedom. Freedom means millions may choose to walk the road to hell. If you're walking that road yourself, it's because you choose to. Right now.

Nobody chooses to walk the road to hell. They simply choose not to believe in biblical salvation.

Even in punishment, God affirms our high dignity. God doesn't punish rocks or dogs. He punishes people. God thinks you are big enough, important enough, to take responsibility.

Punishment is a corrective action so that you may learn from your mistakes and live a better life because of it. Hell is not a punishment as you can't learn anything from it. Hell is an execution (if you believe it's over with quickly) or a form of sadistic torture and revenge (if you believe it to be eternal).

[allansmith]

Nobody chooses to walk the road to hell. They simply choose not to believe in biblical salvation.

No difference. Heaven is facing towards God. Hell is facing away.

Punishment is a corrective action so that you may learn from your mistakes and live a better life because of it. Hell is not a punishment as you can't learn anything from it. Hell is an execution (if you believe it's over with quickly) or a form of sadistic torture and revenge (if you believe it to be eternal).

God isn't into sadism. People, however, harm themselves in a thousand different ways. Even on earth, we see people sinking into self-inflicted hell. Thing is, if they never turn round, they'll walk into deeper and deeper misery. Their choice.

God saves all who can be saved, by whatever means necessary (including punishment). The exercise of sheer power is excluded by definition. Not even God can force someone to love him freely.

[McCulloch]

Punishment is a corrective action so that you may learn from your mistakes and live a better life because of it. Hell is not a punishment as you can't learn anything from it. Hell is an execution (if you believe it's over with quickly) or a form of sadistic torture and revenge (if you believe it to be eternal).

God isn't into sadism.

Then you must believe that God does the humane thing and does not allow eternal torment for the unfaithful.

People, however, harm themselves in a thousand different ways. Even on earth, we see people sinking into self-inflicted hell. Thing is, if they never turn round, they'll walk into deeper and deeper misery. Their choice.

God saves all who can be saved, by whatever means necessary (including punishment). The exercise of sheer power is excluded by definition. Not even God can force someone to love him freely.

He could be a bit more generous with the evidence though.

[Beta]

Christians on this site and elsewhere continually preach the idea that the Christian religion is one of hope. Many go so far as to say that those who are not Christian have no hope, only with the Christian viewpoint can one have a hopeful life.

The Christian has to accept that while he may be "saved", many others including non-believing family members and friends are destined for an eternity of torment. Does it really bring more "hope" for Christians to know that a few will enjoy eternal bliss while billions of others including most of the world's impoverished will be eternally tortured?

The question for debate: Is it really honest to call the Christian belief system one of hope?

I do wish people would take note of biblical teaching that there is no place of eternal torment for man. After repeatedly explaining this erronious belief on various topics it is astounding how people keep coming back to it as if it were gospel-truth. Why can people not desist from this false concept ???
The Bible teaches that this whole world is deceived to believe a lie and until they accept that truth they remain in it. So wake up and let Christ give you light !

[allansmith]

Then you must believe that God does the humane thing and does not allow eternal torment for the unfaithful.

CSLewis thought the unrepentant collapse into a sort of spiritual black hole of eternal misery. George MacDonald (whom Lewis called his "master") thought the pain of separation from God will finally bring everyone to their senses. Other's think the damned fade away to literally nothing.

I don't know which is true. I fervently hope MacDonald's universalism is correct. What I do know is that if hell is populated, it will by those who refuse to leave. If God is good, he will do whatever can be done. Even then, I think people could refuse his love. Pride, remember, is the most deadly sin of all.

He could be a bit more generous with the evidence though.

I agree! If I was God, I'd dole out "evidence" by the bucketful! Fortunately however, God rarely takes my sage advice. I take it there must be very good reason for his apparent silence, and leave it at that.

[Goat]

Christians on this site and elsewhere continually preach the idea that the Christian religion is one of hope. Many go so far as to say that those who are not Christian have no hope, only with the Christian viewpoint can one have a hopeful life.

The Christian has to accept that while he may be "saved", many others including non-believing family members and friends are destined for an eternity of torment. Does it really bring more "hope" for Christians to know that a few will enjoy eternal bliss while billions of others including most of the world's impoverished will be eternally tortured?

The question for debate: Is it really honest to call the Christian belief system one of hope?

I do wish people would take note of biblical teaching that there is no place of eternal torment for man. After repeatedly explaining this erronious belief on various topics it is astounding how people keep coming back to it as if it were gospel-truth. Why can people not desist from this false concept ???
The Bible teaches that this whole world is deceived to believe a lie and until they accept that truth they remain in it. So wake up and let Christ give you light !

You are assuming that 'Christ' is the light, and is not a deception. I find it astounding that people worship a man , and make him into a God. It is so Roman.

[allansmith]

I find it astounding that people worship a man , and make him into a God. It is so Roman.

It's even more astounding that God would become a man in order to make men into gods. It's so... divine.

[McCulloch]

Then you must believe that God does the humane thing and does not allow eternal torment for the unfaithful.

CSLewis thought the unrepentant collapse into a sort of spiritual black hole of eternal misery. George MacDonald (whom Lewis called his "master") thought the pain of separation from God will finally bring everyone to their senses. Other's think the damned fade away to literally nothing.

And still others claim that Jesus taught that the unfaithful will spend eternity in torment.

I don't know which is true.

I commend you for your honesty. Could you not look at the alternatives in light of what you know or think that you know about God from the scriptures, and from nature and at least come up with a most likely scenario?

I fervently hope MacDonald's universalism is correct.

But then again, you also fervently hope that there really is an afterlife. If you are honest with the evidence, you have to admit that no one really knows about this either.

What I do know is that if hell is populated, it will by those who refuse to leave. If God is good, he will do whatever can be done. Even then, I think people could refuse his love.

I think that people are more sensible than that. But some people think that I am naive.

Pride, remember, is the most deadly sin of all.

Not that I am disagreeing necessarily, but do you have anything to back up that assessment? I thought that blaspheming the Holy Spirit was the unforgivable sin.

He could be a bit more generous with the evidence though.

I agree! If I was God, I'd dole out "evidence" by the bucketful!

Perhaps you should at least entertain the idea that there really is no evidence to dole out.

Fortunately however, God rarely takes my sage advice.

I would venture to guess that God never takes your sage advice. Are you really sure that He is even listening?

I take it there must be very good reason for his apparent silence, and leave it at that.

One really good reason for His apparent silence would be His non-existence. Why not take that as a working hypothesis until you find a better explanation?

[Goat]

I find it astounding that people worship a man , and make him into a God. It is so Roman.

It's even more astounding that God would become a man in order to make men into gods. It's so... divine.

It's so.. pagan and mythical.

And, IMO, it is so so false.

[Fallibleone]

I find it astounding that people worship a man , and make him into a God. It is so Roman.

It's even more astounding that God would become a man in order to make men into gods. It's so... divine.

It's astounding all right. If by astounding you mean unbelievable. Or maybe incomprehensible. Dare I say nonsensical?