While Christianity is still alive and dominant in the United States, in many other parts of the world, its been on a steady decline. There have been many postulated causes for this. Some of the most popular are:
-increased literacy and education has led to much critical inquiry into various
aspects of scripture capitalizing on the many discrepancies to point to logical
conclusions that it is mere myth, no more credible than the Roman Gods.
-scientific advancements have dispelled the occurrences of much of scripture
-society has reached a point where life isn't measured by the days until the final
reappearance of Christ. Generations are no longer living like Christ will return
tomorrow, as such, religion takes a back seat to todays life.
-the advancement of medicine has effectively explained many diseases and
disorders and offered treatments and cures in the form of natural medicine
rather than the ancient "snake oil" miracles.
-society has changed so dramatically that the average family has not the time to
devote to religion. Or todays society has reached a point where few things
aren't occurring 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, so adhering to many of the
principles in religious doctrine is simply impossible.
-and my favorite, mankind has gotten so weary of trying to figure out which form
of Christianity (or any religion for that matter) is the proper form that it is less
mentally taxing and time consuming to just not even give it thought.
For debate:
1) Which of the above would you consider being the cause for the declining
religious community? Or is there another cause you might attribute to it?
2) Do you think God would be consider any of the above reasons justified or
would He still hold you accountable even though the society now raising you is
the one that has perpetuated this decline and has passed these same values
onto you. In other words, would He be forgiving of the generation that currently
has to have a 2 income source just to make ends meet and as such, has allowed
religion to take a backseat? And what of the future generations that have these
same principles passed on to them? They know no better.
Causes of Christian decline
Moderator: Moderators
Causes of Christian decline
Post #1What we do for ourselves dies with us,
What we do for others and the world remains
and is immortal.
-Albert Pine
Never be bullied into silence.
Never allow yourself to be made a victim.
Accept no one persons definition of your life; define yourself.
-Harvey Fierstein
What we do for others and the world remains
and is immortal.
-Albert Pine
Never be bullied into silence.
Never allow yourself to be made a victim.
Accept no one persons definition of your life; define yourself.
-Harvey Fierstein
-
twobitsmedia
Re: Causes of Christian decline
Post #2I attribute the decline of Christianity largely because of Christianity itself. It has become so racked with relativism that it even has a problem defining itself. People who seek God or seek comfort in the church atmosphere become largely disullusioned when it turns out to be nothing more than a social club with the name of God thrown out occasionally for appropriate measure. Though I agree that the word "Christian" is alive and still dominant in the US, I would not characterize much of it as Christian but we are very religious. With due respect to those who remain true to Jesus Christ and his teachings, I think the US church is largely apostate.Confused wrote:
For debate:
1) Which of the above would you consider being the cause for the declining
religious community? Or is there another cause you might attribute to it?
I guess I don't think there is any circumstance that means God has to take a back seat. The Biblical account suggests there were hebrew people who were given to hard labor and slavery who still did not allow their "work" to allow devotion to God to take a back seat. The Americanized version of Christianity suggests we have to attend the Sunday morning and evening service and the Wednesday service and get involved in every pseudo-effort that the church gets involved in or we cannot be Christian. That is just not so. The Biblical requirement is a mental devotion (and I use that phrase to suggest it has to be a real thought out decsision) not just one of physical assent (or, if i am here physically it means I am "Christian.")2) Do you think God would be consider any of the above reasons justified or
would He still hold you accountable even though the society now raising you is
the one that has perpetuated this decline and has passed these same values
onto you. In other words, would He be forgiving of the generation that currently
has to have a 2 income source just to make ends meet and as such, has allowed
religion to take a backseat? And what of the future generations that have these
same principles passed on to them? They know no better.
Re: Causes of Christian decline
Post #3twobitsmedia wrote:I attribute the decline of Christianity largely because of Christianity itself. It has become so racked with relativism that it even has a problem defining itself. People who seek God or seek comfort in the church atmosphere become largely disullusioned when it turns out to be nothing more than a social club with the name of God thrown out occasionally for appropriate measure. Though I agree that the word "Christian" is alive and still dominant in the US, I would not characterize much of it as Christian but we are very religious. With due respect to those who remain true to Jesus Christ and his teachings, I think the US church is largely apostate.Confused wrote:
For debate:
1) Which of the above would you consider being the cause for the declining
religious community? Or is there another cause you might attribute to it?
I guess I don't think there is any circumstance that means God has to take a back seat. The Biblical account suggests there were hebrew people who were given to hard labor and slavery who still did not allow their "work" to allow devotion to God to take a back seat. The Americanized version of Christianity suggests we have to attend the Sunday morning and evening service and the Wednesday service and get involved in every pseudo-effort that the church gets involved in or we cannot be Christian. That is just not so. The Biblical requirement is a mental devotion (and I use that phrase to suggest it has to be a real thought out decsision) not just one of physical assent (or, if i am here physically it means I am "Christian.")2) Do you think God would be consider any of the above reasons justified or
would He still hold you accountable even though the society now raising you is
the one that has perpetuated this decline and has passed these same values
onto you. In other words, would He be forgiving of the generation that currently
has to have a 2 income source just to make ends meet and as such, has allowed
religion to take a backseat? And what of the future generations that have these
same principles passed on to them? They know no better.
Well worth a 1,000 donation. You astound me sometimes and for that, I am thankful. Honesty is the most rewarding, yet the least displayed. Thank you.
What we do for ourselves dies with us,
What we do for others and the world remains
and is immortal.
-Albert Pine
Never be bullied into silence.
Never allow yourself to be made a victim.
Accept no one persons definition of your life; define yourself.
-Harvey Fierstein
What we do for others and the world remains
and is immortal.
-Albert Pine
Never be bullied into silence.
Never allow yourself to be made a victim.
Accept no one persons definition of your life; define yourself.
-Harvey Fierstein
-
OnceConvinced
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Re: Causes of Christian decline
Post #4I think they are all valid reasons. I would add a couple of my own, which may or may not related to what you have posted.Confused wrote: 1) Which of the above would you consider being the cause for the declining
religious community? Or is there another cause you might attribute to it?
The Internet:
It was always possible for Christians to avoid any type of argument against their beliefs. They generally tend to mix with other Christians and often live in a protective bubble. With the Internet i.e message boards like this one, chatrooms, IM etc, there is so much more contact with people you would never come across in real life. Far more debate regarding religion. You are opening yourself up to so many more viewpoints, information, studies and arguments you would never have come across in your typical daily life.
I think it's a huge influence and has and will result in huge numbers of people giving up the faith, particularly new Christians and ones with weak faith.
False prophesies:
I'm talking specifically about end times teaching. In the decades leading up to the year 2000 hoards of people were coming to Christianity because of the fear the end was near. The year 2000 was supposed to bring with it all sorts of calamities and forfilling of biblical prophesies. There were huge numbers of predictions and so-called revelations of conspiracies and events that were to take place sometime around the end of the millinium. But of course none of these things eventuated. People are surely realising now, they were duped.
Sadly, I doubt the God of the bible would be too willing to allow for that sort of stuff.2) Do you think God would be consider any of the above reasons justified or
would He still hold you accountable even though the society now raising you is
the one that has perpetuated this decline and has passed these same values
onto you. In other words, would He be forgiving of the generation that currently
has to have a 2 income source just to make ends meet and as such, has allowed
religion to take a backseat? And what of the future generations that have these
same principles passed on to them? They know no better.
Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.
Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.
There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.
Check out my website: Recker's World
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Easyrider
Post #5
To speak of a "decline in Christianity" is like looking at a pinprick on an eternal timeline.
First, it is well understood in Biblical prophecy that atheism, agnosticism, and other such belief systems will themselves ultimately disappear. Christ will ultimately reign forever and there will be no more denial.
Apart from that, Christianity is growing strongly in countries and areas such as China, the Soviet Union, India, and Africa.
“While secular movements like communism, feminism, and environmentalism have gotten the lion’s share of our attention, the explosive southward expansion of Christianity in Africa, Asia, and Latin America has barely registered on Western consciousness,” said Philip Jenkins, distinguished professor of History and Religious Studies at Pennsylvania State University. Perhaps we like to consider ourselves the Christian West, but there is growing evidence that indicates Western Christians are not the whole show. In fact, Mr. Jenkins says that in just 20 years, two-thirds of all Christians will live elsewhere—in Africa, Latin America, or Asia.
Places considered unreachable several decades ago have now become hot spots for Christian growth, and hundreds of new churches are being planted each month in those places. Take the small country of Nepal, for example; the church there is growing faster than in any other nation. In 1960, the number of Christians totaled only twenty-five. Today, the number has risen to almost 1 million. Despite the abuse and isolation many Nepali Christians have faced in recent years, churches are springing up all over the country. And though Hindus, Buddhists, and Muslims, still constitute the majority of the population, Christianity is growing twice as fast as the other faiths.
China is another example of the incredible growth of Christianity. From 1.5 million Christians in 1970, the church has grown to an estimated 64 million in 1990, then to approximately 90 million today. Estimates predict that the number will top 120 million in 25 years.
The small country of Benin in Africa is yet another case of spreading Christianity. Although Benin suffers from poor health care, lack of clean water, poor education, and a high rate of HIV/AIDS, its church growth is still explosive. Nearly 120,000 new members are joining churches each year, and by 2025, it is probable that Christianity in Benin will reach 40 percent of the total population.
Think for a moment and try to imagine Nepalis witnessing to Muslims, China sending missionaries to the Indians, and Africans evangelizing North America and Europe. It may seem impossible, but it is actually quite likely.
http://www.virtuemag.org/articles/204
In addition, whatever "negative" growth trends there are for Christianity in other parts of the world, such as Europe, are subject to major revivals at any point in time. Revivals have been seen in numerous areas of the world throughout history, and certainly in America. Don't confuse "downward trends" for Christianity at any given point in time as a permanent trend.
The most recent “Religious Congregations and Membership” study, published in 2000 (the study is conducted each decade) by the Glenmary Research Center, tells the statistical story. Progressive churches are progressing, it seems, ever closer to oblivion. The Presbyterian Church U.S.A. (11,106 churches) has experienced a decline of 11.6 percent over the previous ten years; the United Methodist Church (35,721 churches) was down 6.7 percent; and the Episcopal Church (7,314 churches) lost 5.3 percent of its membership. Also, the United Churches of Christ (5,863 churches) declined 14.8 percent while the American Baptist Churches USA were down 5.7 percent.
The denominations showing growth included the deeply conservative Southern Baptist Convention, a collection of 41,514 churches, whose overall growth rate was 5 percent. The traditionalist Presbyterian Church in America (as opposed the mainline Presbyterian Church U.S.A.) experienced an impressive 42.4 percent increase, while the Christian and Missionary Alliance rose 21.8 percent. Meanwhile, the Evangelical Free Church was up 57.2 percent, and Pentecostal denominations also boomed. The Assemblies of God, with 11,880 churches, saw 18.5 percent growth, while the Church of God, with 5,612 churches, saw growth of 40.2 percent.
What is behind this traditionalist rise and progressive decline? The New York Times, in its summary of the survey, noted, "Socially conservative churches that demand high commitment from their members grew faster than other religious denominations in the last decade…." Glenmary director Ken Sanchagrin told the paper he was “astounded to see that by and large the growing churches are those that we ordinarily call conservative. And when I looked at those that were declining, most were moderate or liberal churches. And the more liberal the denomination, by most people's definition, the more they were losing."
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/s ... 070747.asp
Following is a poll on the widespread growth of Evangelism / Fundamentalism
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061005/ap_ ... stals_poll
In addition, atheism itself is in decline.
Mass exodus from atheism worldwide
The world is obviously a far smaller place now and it seems that the areas of the world where atheism and secularism have their greatest strength are in decline. For example, economic and political commentator Robert J. Samuelson wrote a very compelling article called The End of Europe where he argues that European influence in the world will decline.[12] In an increasingly global community, of course, this is not good news for European atheism, which is likely to have less influence on the world. In addition, conservative Christianity, which is certainly evangelistic and asserting itself in the world's public intellectual arena, is growing in the USA and especially in the Third World. (For the growth of conservative Christianity in the USA, see the book Exodus: Why Americans are Fleeing Liberal Churches for Conservative Christianity by Dave Shiflett). Since, generally speaking, liberal theologians are more likely to embrace materialist ideas, such as macroevolution, this of course means that fewer Christians are likely to support these ideas, which will reduce the influence of atheism.
Penn State professor Philip Jenkins, author of The Next Christendom: The Coming of Global Christianity, has also pointed out that Christians living in Africa, Latin America, and parts of Asia are far more conservative theologically than Christians who live in the West, so one would expect they would be less likely to adopt or embrace materialist and atheist macroevolutionary ideas.[13
http://creationwiki.org/Decline_of_atheism
First, it is well understood in Biblical prophecy that atheism, agnosticism, and other such belief systems will themselves ultimately disappear. Christ will ultimately reign forever and there will be no more denial.
Apart from that, Christianity is growing strongly in countries and areas such as China, the Soviet Union, India, and Africa.
“While secular movements like communism, feminism, and environmentalism have gotten the lion’s share of our attention, the explosive southward expansion of Christianity in Africa, Asia, and Latin America has barely registered on Western consciousness,” said Philip Jenkins, distinguished professor of History and Religious Studies at Pennsylvania State University. Perhaps we like to consider ourselves the Christian West, but there is growing evidence that indicates Western Christians are not the whole show. In fact, Mr. Jenkins says that in just 20 years, two-thirds of all Christians will live elsewhere—in Africa, Latin America, or Asia.
Places considered unreachable several decades ago have now become hot spots for Christian growth, and hundreds of new churches are being planted each month in those places. Take the small country of Nepal, for example; the church there is growing faster than in any other nation. In 1960, the number of Christians totaled only twenty-five. Today, the number has risen to almost 1 million. Despite the abuse and isolation many Nepali Christians have faced in recent years, churches are springing up all over the country. And though Hindus, Buddhists, and Muslims, still constitute the majority of the population, Christianity is growing twice as fast as the other faiths.
China is another example of the incredible growth of Christianity. From 1.5 million Christians in 1970, the church has grown to an estimated 64 million in 1990, then to approximately 90 million today. Estimates predict that the number will top 120 million in 25 years.
The small country of Benin in Africa is yet another case of spreading Christianity. Although Benin suffers from poor health care, lack of clean water, poor education, and a high rate of HIV/AIDS, its church growth is still explosive. Nearly 120,000 new members are joining churches each year, and by 2025, it is probable that Christianity in Benin will reach 40 percent of the total population.
Think for a moment and try to imagine Nepalis witnessing to Muslims, China sending missionaries to the Indians, and Africans evangelizing North America and Europe. It may seem impossible, but it is actually quite likely.
http://www.virtuemag.org/articles/204
In addition, whatever "negative" growth trends there are for Christianity in other parts of the world, such as Europe, are subject to major revivals at any point in time. Revivals have been seen in numerous areas of the world throughout history, and certainly in America. Don't confuse "downward trends" for Christianity at any given point in time as a permanent trend.
This looks more like a case of liberal churches (and their worldly moral relativism) declining than more conservative churches. Evidence supports this conclusion:I attribute the decline of Christianity largely because of Christianity itself. It has become so racked with relativism that it even has a problem defining itself.
The most recent “Religious Congregations and Membership” study, published in 2000 (the study is conducted each decade) by the Glenmary Research Center, tells the statistical story. Progressive churches are progressing, it seems, ever closer to oblivion. The Presbyterian Church U.S.A. (11,106 churches) has experienced a decline of 11.6 percent over the previous ten years; the United Methodist Church (35,721 churches) was down 6.7 percent; and the Episcopal Church (7,314 churches) lost 5.3 percent of its membership. Also, the United Churches of Christ (5,863 churches) declined 14.8 percent while the American Baptist Churches USA were down 5.7 percent.
The denominations showing growth included the deeply conservative Southern Baptist Convention, a collection of 41,514 churches, whose overall growth rate was 5 percent. The traditionalist Presbyterian Church in America (as opposed the mainline Presbyterian Church U.S.A.) experienced an impressive 42.4 percent increase, while the Christian and Missionary Alliance rose 21.8 percent. Meanwhile, the Evangelical Free Church was up 57.2 percent, and Pentecostal denominations also boomed. The Assemblies of God, with 11,880 churches, saw 18.5 percent growth, while the Church of God, with 5,612 churches, saw growth of 40.2 percent.
What is behind this traditionalist rise and progressive decline? The New York Times, in its summary of the survey, noted, "Socially conservative churches that demand high commitment from their members grew faster than other religious denominations in the last decade…." Glenmary director Ken Sanchagrin told the paper he was “astounded to see that by and large the growing churches are those that we ordinarily call conservative. And when I looked at those that were declining, most were moderate or liberal churches. And the more liberal the denomination, by most people's definition, the more they were losing."
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/s ... 070747.asp
Following is a poll on the widespread growth of Evangelism / Fundamentalism
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061005/ap_ ... stals_poll
In addition, atheism itself is in decline.
Mass exodus from atheism worldwide
The world is obviously a far smaller place now and it seems that the areas of the world where atheism and secularism have their greatest strength are in decline. For example, economic and political commentator Robert J. Samuelson wrote a very compelling article called The End of Europe where he argues that European influence in the world will decline.[12] In an increasingly global community, of course, this is not good news for European atheism, which is likely to have less influence on the world. In addition, conservative Christianity, which is certainly evangelistic and asserting itself in the world's public intellectual arena, is growing in the USA and especially in the Third World. (For the growth of conservative Christianity in the USA, see the book Exodus: Why Americans are Fleeing Liberal Churches for Conservative Christianity by Dave Shiflett). Since, generally speaking, liberal theologians are more likely to embrace materialist ideas, such as macroevolution, this of course means that fewer Christians are likely to support these ideas, which will reduce the influence of atheism.
Penn State professor Philip Jenkins, author of The Next Christendom: The Coming of Global Christianity, has also pointed out that Christians living in Africa, Latin America, and parts of Asia are far more conservative theologically than Christians who live in the West, so one would expect they would be less likely to adopt or embrace materialist and atheist macroevolutionary ideas.[13
http://creationwiki.org/Decline_of_atheism
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Cephus
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Post #6
I think there are two reasons that are largely responsible:
1) Availability of information. This is not only the Internet, but the ability and willingness of people to talk about the failures of religion and the reasons religion really isn't necessary. There was a time in recent memory where people were still not easily able to publically admit being an atheist or talk about their experiences, but now you can. In fact, you can talk about it in thousands of debate forums like this one, you can put up web pages, you can go down to the corner Starbucks and do it, etc. Freedom of speech has been largely upheld.
2) The fact that Christianity no longer has much to offer. There was a point when religion in general could still offer some 'answers' to people, but those areas have been shrinking over time and now, unless you completely reject reality like the fundamentalists do, there isn't much for Christianity to do. Who needs God anymore? What part does God play in the day-to-day world? The God of the gaps is so minuscule as to be completely insignificant today.
I don't see either of these being a bad thing either.
1) Availability of information. This is not only the Internet, but the ability and willingness of people to talk about the failures of religion and the reasons religion really isn't necessary. There was a time in recent memory where people were still not easily able to publically admit being an atheist or talk about their experiences, but now you can. In fact, you can talk about it in thousands of debate forums like this one, you can put up web pages, you can go down to the corner Starbucks and do it, etc. Freedom of speech has been largely upheld.
2) The fact that Christianity no longer has much to offer. There was a point when religion in general could still offer some 'answers' to people, but those areas have been shrinking over time and now, unless you completely reject reality like the fundamentalists do, there isn't much for Christianity to do. Who needs God anymore? What part does God play in the day-to-day world? The God of the gaps is so minuscule as to be completely insignificant today.
I don't see either of these being a bad thing either.
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alexiarose
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Post #7
If Christianity is declining, then the only one to blame for this would be Christ. If He was to put in an appearance every once in a while, then maybe faith wouldn't give away to facts.
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twobitsmedia
Post #8
I am not real sure what you are saying, but for God to do anything he purposed, numbers are irrelevant. So "declining" numbers does not in any way imply powerlessness. But, what i am reading is that your faith is not a fact....am I misunderstanding?alexiarose wrote:If Christianity is declining, then the only one to blame for this would be Christ. If He was to put in an appearance every once in a while, then maybe faith wouldn't give away to facts.
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alexiarose
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Post #9
My point was the longer someone is absent physically, the less impact that person has in the present and future. The greater the impact the person had when they were present, the greater chance for it to be twisted into knots. God had interactions with man until 2000+ years ago. Since then, silence in regards to any grand scale presence, God has evaporated. The instinct Christians share about the existence of God is not something they can use as unequivocal proof of His existence.twobitsmedia wrote:I am not real sure what you are saying, but for God to do anything he purposed, numbers are irrelevant. So "declining" numbers does not in any way imply powerlessness. But, what i am reading is that your faith is not a fact....am I misunderstanding?alexiarose wrote:If Christianity is declining, then the only one to blame for this would be Christ. If He was to put in an appearance every once in a while, then maybe faith wouldn't give away to facts.
And no, you aren't misunderstanding my post, faith isn't fact. It is merely faith. When it is proven fact, it is fact.
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twobitsmedia
Post #10
Then God is not fact?alexiarose wrote:My point was the longer someone is absent physically, the less impact that person has in the present and future. The greater the impact the person had when they were present, the greater chance for it to be twisted into knots. God had interactions with man until 2000+ years ago. Since then, silence in regards to any grand scale presence, God has evaporated. The instinct Christians share about the existence of God is not something they can use as unequivocal proof of His existence.twobitsmedia wrote:I am not real sure what you are saying, but for God to do anything he purposed, numbers are irrelevant. So "declining" numbers does not in any way imply powerlessness. But, what i am reading is that your faith is not a fact....am I misunderstanding?alexiarose wrote:If Christianity is declining, then the only one to blame for this would be Christ. If He was to put in an appearance every once in a while, then maybe faith wouldn't give away to facts.
And no, you aren't misunderstanding my post, faith isn't fact. It is merely faith. When it is proven fact, it is fact.
