God as the Divine Blackmailer

[potwalloper.]

It has been said that the threat of eternal damnation is no different to blackmail - ie coercing people to do things by the use of a threat.

...and as blackmail is a sin then if he is guilty God would be a sinner.

What do you think?

Is god guilty of blackmail and therefore a sinner?

- if yes why do you believe this to be so

- if no then why not?

[potwalloper.]

If you want to continue debating this particular issue Rev start a new thread.

Once again a reminder of the subject of this thread:

Quote:
It has been said that the threat of eternal damnation is no different to blackmail - ie coercing people to do things by the use of a threat.

...and as blackmail is a sin then if he is guilty God would be a sinner.

What do you think?

Is god guilty of blackmail and therefore a sinner?

- if yes why do you believe this to be so

- if no then why not?

[snowman]

Quote:
It has been said that the threat of eternal damnation is no different to blackmail - ie coercing people to do things by the use of a threat.

...and as blackmail is a sin then if he is guilty God would be a sinner.

What do you think?

Is god guilty of blackmail and therefore a sinner?

- if yes why do you believe this to be so

- if no then why not?

[/quote]

Can God be accused of blackmail? I don't think so because he does not use such tactics. He doesn't threaten anyone with a literal eternal fire for punishing the disobedient. This blackmail you think about does not deter anyone into obedience who does not want to believe, does it? This false idea may only work on those who don't want to go to this 'bad place'.

[RevJP]

Of course I have Rev...just because you are unable to see how you are perceived by others is not my problem - it is yours.

Others have not accused me of being self-righteous, you have. You have also failed to support your assertions, for lack of evidence. That you chose to make such unwarranted and unsubstantiated insults reflects on your character, and that is not my problem - it is yours.

No - I am saying that the Jesus being in a Christian sense cannot be separated from the miracle of his conception. To verify the existence of Jesus as a man but not as a Christian son of God would be pointless in this context

Complete drivel. This discussion was regarding the existence of Jesus, and your assertions that Jesus most likely did not exist. That you now backpeddle and vainly try to throw in unnecessary qualifications is indicative of someone who refuses to admit their own error.

You believe that Jesus was the son of God therefore you cannot separate the two without suspending that belief and deceiving yourself.

Who I believe Jesus to be is irrelevant to His existing. I may believe John Kerry to be the anti-christ but that is irrelevant to his existence. That is the truth which you refuse to acknowledge.

either Jesus was the son of god (when the miracle of his conception must be considered when verifying his existence) or he was not (in which case why try to verify his existence in a debate on religion?)

Once again; either Jesus existed or He didn't, that is the issue, His theistic qualities are not relevant to the fact of His existence. That He is the Son of God or not, that he performed miracles or not, that He had a miraclulous conception or not, are matters of faith, completely and utterly seperate from the fact of His physical existence.

I do not claim that it is a fact that God does not exist. However my default in such circumstances remains non-existence in the absence of evidence to support the claim that god exists.

In this you demonstrate your bias, your closemindedness. You disqualify possibilities from the outset and everything you view and consider is then colored by that bias. You are plainly not objective, why not admit that fact?

If you want to continue debating this particular issue Rev start a new thread.

Agreed. You obviously understand your POV is lacking so its most likely best that we allow you to dodge the whole thing.

It has been said that the threat of eternal damnation is no different to blackmail - ie coercing people to do things by the use of a threat.

There is no 'threat' of eternal damnation, there is the exitant condition of being eternally seperated from God. God does not say "Do this or I will send you to hell". He in fact offered us a way out of hell. In essence He said: "You are already condemned, your fate is sealed, but I offer you a way out of your fate."

Is this blackmail? No, it is an offer of salvation.

[potwalloper.]

Rev - the reason I tried to remind you of the purpose of this thread was not because I was in any way avoiding the issue.

It was because you are clearly an ignorant, self-opinionated, self-righteous twat who lacks the intellectual horsepower to understand that he is defending the indefensible. I wished to avoid having to say this as I am aware that it breaches the rules of the forum (sorry Otseng and any others who may be offended by this post - Rev excepted).

Debating with an idiot such as yourself is pointless - you have admitted that you believe in fantasy, you clearly feel that the sun shines out of your own arse and as such I'm afraid we have no common ground for debate.

Dance in your world of fantasy all you like I, for one, have better things to do with my life than sit in front of a computer and waste my time talking to an idiot such as you.

Post a response if you want - I won't be reading it...

[otseng]

It was because you are clearly an ignorant, self-opinionated, self-righteous twat who lacks the intellectual horsepower to understand that he is defending the indefensible. I wished to avoid having to say this as I am aware that it breaches the rules of the forum (sorry Otseng and any others who may be offended by this post - Rev excepted).

I do not understand. You clearly know that you will be violating the rules and yet you still choose to violate them? Such behavior is not acceptable. I can understand if someone doesn't know the rules or is hasty in a post and overlooks a rule. But for someone to blatantly violate a rule and expect to get away with it is not acceptable.

Consider yourself receiving a formal warning. Further blatant violations will result in more serious measures.

[potwalloper.]

I do not understand. You clearly know that you will be violating the rules and yet you still choose to violate them? Such behavior is not acceptable. I can understand if someone doesn't know the rules or is hasty in a post and overlooks a rule. But for someone to blatantly violate a rule and expect to get away with it is not acceptable.

Point taken Otseng, as I said in the post no offence was meant to you - but anyone who knows me can tell you that I've always been a rule breaker and I'm afraid this guy really gets on my tits.

I'll try harder next time - honest

[otseng]

Point taken Otseng, as I said in the post no offence was meant to you - but anyone who knows me can tell you that I've always been a rule breaker and I'm afraid this guy really gets on my tits.

No offense to me. But I have to make sure that everyone abides by the rules.

Let me offer one suggestion that has helped me remain civil when I've wanted to blast at someone. Start off the post by expressing how you really feel. For example, "You're such a $$%*!#!!!! Everything you say is stupid and you can't argue worth $#!+. You are a complete !%!*+ and SO IS YOUR ELDEST SISTER!!!!" Now, calmly delete everything and compose a post in a more respectful manner.

[snowman]

RevJP wrote:

There is no 'threat' of eternal damnation, there is the exitant condition of being eternally seperated from God. God does not say "Do this or I will send you to hell". He in fact offered us a way out of hell. In essence He said: "You are already condemned, your fate is sealed, but I offer you a way out of your fate."

Is this blackmail? No, it is an offer of salvation.

Actually, Rev, the scriptures say that the world has already been reconciled to God. What? Yes, that's what the scripture says. As far as God is concerned, everyone is 'toward him' and only they need to realize this. Paul proclaimed to his hearers that they should be conciliated back to God. It is us, the 'unbelievers', who need to realize that God is not, and will not be our enemy.

It is true that God offers salvation. But it is also true that only those who does truth comes to that light. The condemned are condemned only because they love darkness rather than light. These are two different hearts in view. One heart is of truth and loves truth and therefore they WILL come to the light to manifest Gods works in them. The others do not come to the light because they prefer that condition. Sounding strange so far? This is because Paul said that God is the potter and we are the clay. Some pots are made for honor and some pots are made for dishonor. Pots of dishonor (the condemned) will be broken. But broken so that they may be refashioned. This is why Paul says later on that God will have mercy on all. Then Paul proclaims the wisdom of God in all things.

Some will still see some form of blackmail, unfortunately, in what you say. It is just said differently, as if our destiny is our choice based upon our so-called freewill.