How do I determine what God requires of me?

[McCulloch]

I have posted what I think is the single most important issue to debate.

To me, the second most important issue is this. If there is a God, how do I determine what God requires of me? If your answer involves something that is from human agency, a book or an organization, then the question remains, "How do I know that the book's authors or the organization's leaders authoritatively speak for God?"

How do I determine what God requires of me?

[Goat]

That is an unsatisfactory answer. How do I differentiate between other claims about what God wants me to do? How do you know that Jesus and not Muhammad is issuing the instructions from God?

Did Muhammad die for you?

No, but Zoroaster did.

[olavisjo]

That is an unsatisfactory answer. How do I differentiate between other claims about what God wants me to do? How do you know that Jesus and not Muhammad is issuing the instructions from God?

Did Muhammad die for you?

No, but Zoroaster did.

Zoroaster’s death is not mentioned in the Avesta. In Shahnama 5.92,[16] he is said to have been murdered at the altar by the Turanians in the storming of Balkh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroaster
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1E1-Zoroaste.html

Jesus laid down his life, he carried his own cross, no man took his life.

[McCulloch]

Did Jesus die for me? How do you know? Why would his death be at all relevant?

It does for the most part come down to how reliable of a source the bible is. I have looked at it as a historical document and it has held its own. I have also given it the '747' test, ie 'does it fly?'
I have boarded big planes and flown thousands of miles safely even though I don't understand exactly how such a huge hunk of metal can cross the pacific but it does. The bible is like that, just do as it tells you to do and it never lets you down, the blinder your obedience to it, the better. (one main thing that it tells me to do is 'do no harm', so you don't have to kill infidels etc)

There are others who would make the same claim that you do about their particular revelations from God, the Qu'ran for example. If it is blind obedience that is required, then does it matter what creed you are blindly obedient to? If it matters, then blind obedience is not a suitable too by which to discriminate between competing creedal claims.

You were born with a death sentence on your head, and eventually time will carry out that sentence, when Jesus died for you he satisfied that sentence and gave you the opportunity to live forever.

All biological entities will die. I would hardly call it a death sentence, since that term implies that death is a result of some kind of judicial process. Theologians claim that death is a result of sin, but there is no evidence that is the case.
But assuming that you are right and that the sentence of death has been imposed upon me by a God, why would that require the death of his own son. I cannot choose to die to satisfy the death sentence of any other humans, so it makes no sense to me that such an injustice on my behalf is allowed. If God wants to forgive me, why can't he just forgive me?

I know that you have heard all this before, so what hinders you from giving your life to Jesus?

Yes, I have heard, many times. It still makes no sense. I don't believe it.

[olavisjo]

I know that you have heard all this before, so what hinders you from giving your life to Jesus?

Yes, I have heard, many times. It still makes no sense. I don't believe it.

You are my age, and your biological clock is ticking.
The day in which you must cast your lot is rapidly approaching.
You have looked at this left, right, inside out and every which way, all I can offer you is my testimony.
I gave my life to Jesus over 30 years ago and I have never regretted it, and I know without any doubt that I will live forever with him in a world that will only get better and better as time goes by, forever.
You are not going to get a better offer.
Just say to God, "I don't belive in you, but I give you my life, and I give you permission to do with it whatever you have to do to make me a believer, if there is any sin in me that separates us, I ask you to forgive me because of what Jesus did 2000 years ago, please God give me the ability to believe in you."

Read it out loud when nobody is watching you and mean it. It is not a lot to ask, and what have you got to lose, what have you got to gain?

[Zzyzx]

.

Jesus laid down his life, he carried his own cross, no man took his life.

Bold added to emphasize a statement that seems contrary to what many Christians regard as having happened with "crucifixion".

Are you claiming that Jesus committed suicide? Kindly support the contention.

[olavisjo]

Are you claiming that Jesus committed suicide? Kindly support the contention.

John 10:17-18

17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

[McCulloch]

You are my age, and your biological clock is ticking.

So I don't have time for dead end paths and wild goose chases.

You have looked at this left, right, inside out and every which way, all I can offer you is my testimony. I gave my life to Jesus over 30 years ago and I have never regretted it, and I know without any doubt that I will live forever with him in a world that will only get better and better as time goes by, forever.

Why don't you have any doubt? How is it that you are so sure? What is the basis of your certainty?

You are not going to get a better offer.

Well, that depends on what you mean by better. There are some who would offer greater rewards for a lower price. There is no one who offers anything like a valid claim. It is really a pig in a poke.

Just say to God, "I don't believe in you, but I give you my life, and I give you permission to do with it whatever you have to do to make me a believer, if there is any sin in me that separates us, I ask you to forgive me because of what Jesus did 2000 years ago, please God give me the ability to believe in you."

Read it out loud when nobody is watching you and mean it. It is not a lot to ask,

How can I give my life to that which I don't believe? Why would I even if it were possible? It is a lot to ask when you include and mean it.

... and what have you got to lose,

Opportunities to give myself to all of the other possible Gods; my own life (you said that I would be giving my life to the God that I don't believe in); any pretense of logical consistency.

what have you got to gain?

The unsupported and unsubstantiated promise of eternal life.

Donate 600 tokens to me and I will grant you eternal life in complete bliss after you die. What have you got to lose? How do you know that I don't have the ability to grant this?

[olavisjo]

Why don't you have any doubt? How is it that you are so sure? What is the basis of your certainty?

My life reads like a book, it has been the most interesting life I could have ever imagined, when I have time I will sit down and write it. It is just one coincidence after another, way beyond normal chance.

Well, that depends on what you mean by better. There are some who would offer greater rewards for a lower price. There is no one who offers anything like a valid claim. It is really a pig in a poke.

True enough, but a valid claim would negate the offer.
Imagine a very rich man who has no heir to leave his great fortune to, his own children are spoiled brats and would waste all his money and kill themselves on drugs and such. So he decides to give his entire estate to the person that shows the most compassion to an older widow who begs for a living. His thinking being that a person who would do something like that would have the temperament to use his vast estate to the benefit of the community. So you can understand a valid reason to enter into helping this widow knowing that a fortune would follow, would defeat the purpose of the test.

How can I give my life to that which I don't believe? Why would I even if it were possible? It is a lot to ask when you include and mean it.

When you sign a contract you are bound by it, whether you believe it or not, whether you read it or not. God will honor a verbal contract spoken by you, he just needs to hear it from your lips. Okay 'mean it' is hard to do, but you only need to mean it for 5 minutes, then you can revert to your usual self and God will work out your contract. If this is a chance to enter eternal life, could you convince yourself to mean it for 5 minutes.

Opportunities to give myself to all of the other possible Gods; my own life (you said that I would be giving my life to the God that I don't believe in); any pretense of logical consistency.

If this is the true God, you will never want to give yourself to another, if it is not the true God, then he will not be able to hold you.

what have you got to gain?

The unsupported and unsubstantiated promise of eternal life.

Donate 600 tokens to me and I will grant you eternal life in complete bliss after you die. What have you got to lose? How do you know that I don't have the ability to grant this?

What is 600 tokens? I am willing to lay down my life for you, if that is what it takes.

[Goat]

That is an unsatisfactory answer. How do I differentiate between other claims about what God wants me to do? How do you know that Jesus and not Muhammad is issuing the instructions from God?

Did Muhammad die for you?

No, but Zoroaster did.

Zoroaster’s death is not mentioned in the Avesta. In Shahnama 5.92,[16] he is said to have been murdered at the altar by the Turanians in the storming of Balkh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroaster
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1E1-Zoroaste.html

Jesus laid down his life, he carried his own cross, no man took his life.

Well, that is the stories, and Zoroaster was supposed to be martyred. Good enough for me.

And, according to Christian mythology, Jesus rose again, and is now at the right hand of God, who sits on the great white throne. No sacrifice there.

[McCulloch]

Why don't you have any doubt? How is it that you are so sure? What is the basis of your certainty?

My life reads like a book, it has been the most interesting life I could have ever imagined, when I have time I will sit down and write it. It is just one coincidence after another, way beyond normal chance.

Mine isn't. So you have a reason to believe and I don't.

When you sign a contract you are bound by it, whether you believe it or not, whether you read it or not. God will honor a verbal contract spoken by you, he just needs to hear it from your lips. Okay 'mean it' is hard to do, but you only need to mean it for 5 minutes, then you can revert to your usual self and God will work out your contract. If this is a chance to enter eternal life, could you convince yourself to mean it for 5 minutes.

With the right drugs, maybe.

How about this, "I don't believe in you, but if you exist I give you permission to do with it whatever you have to do to make me a believer. If there is any sin in me that separates us, I ask you to forgive me in whatever way you can. Please God convince me that you exist and guide me to know your will for my life."

Donate 600 tokens to me and I will grant you eternal life in complete bliss after you die. What have you got to lose? How do you know that I don't have the ability to grant this?

What is 600 tokens? I am willing to lay down my life for you, if that is what it takes.

To the left of this post, there is a tally of the number of tokens you have. Click on Donate and send me 600 of your tokens. I will in exchange promise that you will have an eternal afterlife of bliss.