How do I determine what God requires of me?

[McCulloch]

I have posted what I think is the single most important issue to debate.

To me, the second most important issue is this. If there is a God, how do I determine what God requires of me? If your answer involves something that is from human agency, a book or an organization, then the question remains, "How do I know that the book's authors or the organization's leaders authoritatively speak for God?"

How do I determine what God requires of me?

[alexiarose]

in her heart, (Mom) is doing exactly as scriptures says.

The evil one could be your doubt and skepticism.

Yes, I realize I contradict myself from my earlier post about mom, but I know what is in moms heart. I don't know what is in yours...

Contradict away... But don't expect us to believe that your beliefs are deep seated if you contradict yourself.

I explained my contradiction quite adequately IMO. I don't know what is in your heart.

Your self-contradiction, which has not been explained, seems to be that there is a straightforward explanation for God not revealing himself to McCulloch, and it's pretty much the only explanation, but it doesn't apply to your mother.

I don't know what is in McCullochs heart, so how can I apply the same beleif to him that I do to my mother?

The evil one could be your doubt and skepticism.

Do you think your mother has doubt and skepticism? So far that's been your only explanation for the absence of God in a person's life. And is "having no doubt and skepticism" the definition of an open, honest search anyway?

No, doubt and skepticism need not be absent for an honest search. Try reading through all the posts again because you missing points. I merely stated that it COULD be. Do you understand the difference between stating a possibility and stating a fact?

I have to trust that there is a reason He hasn't reached their hearts yet.

As I mentioned, the only reason you've put forward so far is doubt and skepticism, which goes back to my original question to you. Apart from that, you seem to be following the common pattern of making excuses for God. "His ways are not our ways...", etc.

Really, sounds more like you are trying to put words in my mouth. And you are definitely building your own strawman in the process. Read what I write and quit trying to make it sound like it is something it isn't.

You've equated the process of finding God, with "letting your guard down", as in trusting that someone loves you (in the human sense). Might I assume that you get your heart broken a lot? What if you open yourself to someone, and they don't return your love?

You can assume anything you would like but it won't get you any closer to the truth. But since you seem to be doing such a good job, keep it up!!

Your mother has reached out to God, and he's turned his back on her. The Heavenly Father, with perfect love abounding, has seen fit to withhold his favor. How low does that make the poor individual feel who needs God - holding out her arms and calling to him? (And here I'm referring to other cases I've seen, btw.)

Is there suppose to be some kind of debatable issue in this context? Or are you just trying to appeal to emotions?

This kind of torturous delusion is the tragic antithesis of religious elation.

Again, appealing to emotions doesn't impress me. You have no clue what you are talking about when you try to personalize it because unlike a few others here, you don't know moms life. You want an appeal to emotions, try reading some of it. Until then, might I suggest you keep it on topic rather than making it irrelevant?

[alexiarose]

Let me ask you this, you love your wife, right? What method do you use to validate this feeling? How can you explain it to me so it isn't (moms favorite word here ) nonsensical?

So God is a feeling; an emotion?

The experience of God is a feeling. I think I already explained what I thought God was to you in another thread.

They have recreated what subjects called a feeling "of not being alone" also called a "religious experience" by some, in experiments.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/20 ... rain.shtml

A little sketchy, i'm sure, but an interesting read.

Interesting. But I am starting to undermine myself. Maybe McCulloch was right.

[undeterred]

...doubt and skepticism need not be absent for an honest search. Try reading through all the posts again because you missing points. I merely stated that it COULD be. Do you understand the difference between stating a possibility and stating a fact?

Okay.

So it's possible that doubts or skepticism hold God at bay, or it's possible that... what?

As I mentioned, the only reason you've put forward so far is doubt and skepticism, which goes back to my original question to you. Apart from that, you seem to be following the common pattern of making excuses for God. "His ways are not our ways...", etc.

Really, sounds more like you are trying to put words in my mouth... Read what I write and quit trying to make it sound like it is something it isn't.

I'm just telling you what it sounds like to me. Seriously. Hence the phrase "you seem to be..." It's not like I'm never dense, or anything. If I've got it wrong, can you spare me a little time to straighten it out, in an informative post? Thanks.

You've equated the process of finding God, with "letting your guard down", as in trusting that someone loves you (in the human sense). Might I assume that you get your heart broken a lot? What if you open yourself to someone, and they don't return your love?

You can assume anything you would like but it won't get you any closer to the truth. But since you seem to be doing such a good job, keep it up!!

Not that I thought about it, but you might have said "No, I don't approach the trust in human love the same way I approach my trust in God..." or something like that, maybe. Like I said I'm just asking. I'm not sure why I'm being attacked.

How low does that make the poor individual feel who needs God - holding out her arms and calling to him? (And here I'm referring to other cases I've seen, btw.)

Is there suppose to be some kind of debatable issue in this context? Or are you just trying to appeal to emotions?

Or you might have said "People needn't feel bad if it seems God has turned his back on them..." or something like that. Sheesh.

This kind of torturous delusion is the tragic antithesis of religious elation.

Again, appealing to emotions doesn't impress me. You have no clue what you are talking about when you try to personalize it because unlike a few others here, you don't know moms life.

Which is why I said "...here I'm referring to other cases I've seen".

Now, apart from that I did read this...

I know how much she hurt when she thought she was rejected...

...so I don't know why I can't make my point.

You want an appeal to emotions, try reading some of it.

See above.

Until then, might I suggest you keep it on topic rather than making it irrelevant?

Why is there a heavier onus on me to stay "on topic" than anyone else on this board? I didn't steer the thread to its present position. In any case the topic is "How do I determine what God requires of me." Since God seems to require the "open heart" approach before he can even show himself, it seems patently unfair that people should suffer mental and emotional torment when they comply fully, and he crushes their little hearts and spirits for no apparent reason.

All this is made all the more unfair because the torment is based on a figment of the imagination to start with.

[alexiarose]

...doubt and skepticism need not be absent for an honest search. Try reading through all the posts again because you missing points. I merely stated that it COULD be. Do you understand the difference between stating a possibility and stating a fact?

Okay.

So it's possible that doubts or skepticism hold God at bay, or it's possible that... what?

As I mentioned, the only reason you've put forward so far is doubt and skepticism, which goes back to my original question to you. Apart from that, you seem to be following the common pattern of making excuses for God. "His ways are not our ways...", etc.

Really, sounds more like you are trying to put words in my mouth... Read what I write and quit trying to make it sound like it is something it isn't.

I'm just telling you what it sounds like to me. Seriously. Hence the phrase "you seem to be..." It's not like I'm never dense, or anything. If I've got it wrong, can you spare me a little time to straighten it out, in an informative post? Thanks.

You've equated the process of finding God, with "letting your guard down", as in trusting that someone loves you (in the human sense). Might I assume that you get your heart broken a lot? What if you open yourself to someone, and they don't return your love?

You can assume anything you would like but it won't get you any closer to the truth. But since you seem to be doing such a good job, keep it up!!

Not that I thought about it, but you might have said "No, I don't approach the trust in human love the same way I approach my trust in God..." or something like that, maybe. Like I said I'm just asking. I'm not sure why I'm being attacked.

How low does that make the poor individual feel who needs God - holding out her arms and calling to him? (And here I'm referring to other cases I've seen, btw.)

Is there suppose to be some kind of debatable issue in this context? Or are you just trying to appeal to emotions?

Or you might have said "People needn't feel bad if it seems God has turned his back on them..." or something like that. Sheesh.

This kind of torturous delusion is the tragic antithesis of religious elation.

Again, appealing to emotions doesn't impress me. You have no clue what you are talking about when you try to personalize it because unlike a few others here, you don't know moms life.

Which is why I said "...here I'm referring to other cases I've seen".

Now, apart from that I did read this...

I know how much she hurt when she thought she was rejected...

...so I don't know why I can't make my point.

You want an appeal to emotions, try reading some of it.

See above.

Until then, might I suggest you keep it on topic rather than making it irrelevant?

Why is there a heavier onus on me to stay "on topic" than anyone else on this board? I didn't steer the thread to its present position. In any case the topic is "How do I determine what God requires of me." Since God seems to require the "open heart" approach before he can even show himself, it seems patently unfair that people should suffer mental and emotional torment when they comply fully, and he crushes their little hearts and spirits for no apparent reason.

All this is made all the more unfair because the torment is based on a figment of the imagination to start with.

Ok. Hold on. I just sent you a PM. I will wait to hear your response and then try this again without acting like a spoiled brat. Sorry.

[McCulloch]

Many terms are very subjective and what I see as evil may not be the same as you. How is it any different than my seeing you hash out terms with any other debater?

Point taken.

My answer is to give Him a chance.

Who? How?

Try taking it into the entire context rather than breaking it up to suit your purpose. I never claimed it wasn't His book. Only that He didn't write it. It is a testimony of the accounts of those who witnessed His works. Because of this, it leads the rest of my comment you opted to butcher.

My mistake. So many Christians claim divine authorship for the Bible. So it is a book about God not by God. It is by humans and is therefore flawed. Why doesn't God communicate directly?

Like what Mark Twain said, "It’s not the parts of the Bible I don’t understand that bother me; it’s the parts I do understand."

Then maybe he should spend a bit more time trying to understand the parts he doesn't.

Why attempt calculus when you cannot get algebra?

Interesting. But I am starting to undermine myself. Maybe McCulloch was right.

Of course McCulloch is right. Just don't tell him, he'll get a swelled head.

[alexiarose]

My answer is to give Him a chance.

Who? How?

I don't know. I was thinking at the time that you should just give God a chance, but having had it put back on me in terms of mom by another poster, I am not sure that makes any sense anymore. I always thought that if I could find Him by reading a book from the library, then surely anyone could. But I am not really sure what I found anymore.

Try taking it into the entire context rather than breaking it up to suit your purpose. I never claimed it wasn't His book. Only that He didn't write it. It is a testimony of the accounts of those who witnessed His works. Because of this, it leads the rest of my comment you opted to butcher.

My mistake. So many Christians claim divine authorship for the Bible. So it is a book about God not by God. It is by humans and is therefore flawed. Why doesn't God communicate directly?

Yes, it is by humans. Yesterday I would have told you that God does communicate directly, but in His own way. Today, that makes no sense at all. I don't know.

Like what Mark Twain said, "It’s not the parts of the Bible I don’t understand that bother me; it’s the parts I do understand."

Then maybe he should spend a bit more time trying to understand the parts he doesn't.

Why attempt calculus when you cannot get algebra?

Did he spend time trying to understand the parts he can't understand or did he just stick with the simplest and most condemning (which do make up a large majority). Again, I don't really know.

Interesting. But I am starting to undermine myself. Maybe McCulloch was right.

Of course McCulloch is right. Just don't tell him, he'll get a swelled head.

You're funny. And sweet. I don't know how to answer these questions. Maybe after some sleep I might find my way back. Mom has to start her infusions soon so after I help her with that, I am going to bed. Hopefully the morning will bring clarity.

[jgh7]

I have posted what I think is the single most important issue to debate.

To me, the second most important issue is this. If there is a God, how do I determine what God requires of me? If your answer involves something that is from human agency, a book or an organization, then the question remains, "How do I know that the book's authors or the organization's leaders authoritatively speak for God?"

How do I determine what God requires of me?

I don´t think the answer is a complicated one. In my opinion, all God requires is for you to desire and to seek after Him, for you to want God in your life and to want to feel His presence and comfort.

[McCulloch]

How do I determine what God requires of me?

I don´t think the answer is a complicated one. In my opinion, all God requires is for you to desire and to seek after Him, for you to want God in your life and to want to feel His presence and comfort.

Thank you for your response, but you failed to answer the question. It is not "What does God require of me? " It is "How do I determine what God requires of me?" You have provided an answer to the first without addressing the second. You tell me what you think that God wants of me that may be more or less valid than someone else's answer. But you failed to explain how you came to the conclusion you have come to. Upon what do you base your opinion?

[Zzyzx]

.
Alexiarose,

These are very appropriate reactions / responses for an intelligent person.

I always thought that if I could find Him by reading a book from the library, then surely anyone could. But I am not really sure what I found anymore.

Yesterday I would have told you that God does communicate directly, but in His own way. Today, that makes no sense at all. I don't know.

You have encountered questions regarding faith that have no easy answers for discerning, discriminating people – those who insist upon using their abilities to understand the world they inhabit rather than simply following what others suggest or demand.

There are many simple or simplistic answers offered that might satisfy others, but which do not satisfy all of us. Many who loudly proclaim belief systems do not require that what they “know” actually be true – only that they “believe on faith alone” without questioning the statements of clerics (or writers of religious tomes).

No one should attempt to tell you what to think, though many will. Instead, you should be encouraged to continue the questioning process until you are satisfied with the answers you develop for yourself.

[olavisjo]

We are not “selling” anything about love and are not attempting to induce others to love us or each other.

I can understand if you think that Christians are trying to sell you something. And I am sure that some are, but to me it is more like the old quote "Evangelism is one beggar telling another where bread can be found."
I was once a rational thinker, who had to listen to the preaching of the superstitious. They did not bother me so much and I enjoyed enlightening them to what the real world is all about. At the time I did not have concerns about laws that this group may pass and make me conform to, so I did not see them as a threat like people today see them as.
Today I am eternally grateful to the "foolish preaching" that these people gave to me when I was still lost. And I am sure that one day you too will forgive us for hounding you with this gospel, but my hands are tied, it is what I am compelled to do.
The irony is that God endowed you with so much gray matter, that it has become a stumbling block for you to find him, but with God all things are possible.

17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

Maybe after some sleep I might find my way back. Mom has to start her infusions soon so after I help her with that, I am going to bed. Hopefully the morning will bring clarity.

Alexiarose, hang in there, you are on the right road. When the world becomes overwhelming I go into a private place and pray to God, out loud, and things get better.