What advantages does the Holy Spirit bring?

[OnceConvinced]

Christians often make claims about the Holy Spirit and that it brings them certain benefits.

What advantages does the Holy Spirit bring to one's life?

Is it possible to be a Christian without the Holy Spirit?

How does one know if someone else has the Holy Spirit within them?

[McCulloch]

What advantages does the Holy Spirit bring to one's life?

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

Without the Holy Spirit the rest of us cannot hope to have any love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.

Is it possible to be a Christian without the Holy Spirit?

No.

How does one know if someone else has the Holy Spirit within them?

If they are a True Christian™ then they have the Holy Spirit.

[OnceConvinced]

What advantages does the Holy Spirit bring to one's life?

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

Without the Holy Spirit the rest of us cannot hope to have any love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.

Is it possible to be a Christian without the Holy Spirit?

No.

How does one know if someone else has the Holy Spirit within them?

If they are a True Christian™ then they have the Holy Spirit.

Ah the old circular reasoning. If they are a true Christian, they'll have the HS. However to be a true Christian, you need to obtain the HS.

I'm actually really glad you brought up about the fruits of the spirit (I was hoping someone would). Some Christians will claim you need to have "descernment" to know whether someone else is spirit filled. However what you have there - the fruits of the spirit, are the things we should see in that person if a person has the HS within them.

I personally am yet to come across a Christian that displays all those fruits. Let's take a look at them:

Love and Gentleness
No one can argue that there are many Christians out there who do not show love and gentleness to others. Even highly esteemed Christians known for their wisdom and spirituality fail in that department.

Joy:
The last time I attended a church (last year) I took special note of the faces of those around me and I saw no joy. I saw a lot of unhappy looking people who probably wished they were somewhere else right then, rather than in church.

I have met plenty of Christians who do appear to be full of joy, but I would say that a large percentage to not exhibit joy in their personalities.

Peace:
Some Christians still allow themselves to let their problems get the better of them. Having been in a leadership role, I have met many troubled "born-again" Christians who seem to have a very strong faith, who live good Christian lives, but seem to have little peace.

Patience
It is evident, even on this site alone that many who claim to be born-again, spirit-filled Christians here, do not exhibit this fruit. There are some that do. Joer and Jester come to mind as two very tolerant, patient people.

kindness & goodness
In my experience even some of the most spiritual, on-fire Christians I have met sometimes fail in this area, especially if it is not a convenient time for them to be kind or good.

faithfulness
I have met many people who claim to be faithful Christians and then they make a comment that shows a severe lack of faith.

self-control
Once again on this site we can see many Christians who do not exhibit self-control and like many non-Christians will lose their temper and make a nasty or sarcastic comment.

In summary...
The thing about the fruits of the spirit is that if we truly have the Holy Spirit in us, then we should exhibit all these fruits in our daily lives. But I think anyone who claims to know a Christian who does is probably being less than honest. At the very most there are extremely few Spirit filled Christians around. This is pretty damning evidence that the Holy Spirit is not everything the bible or Christians claim it to be.

[OnceConvinced]

In another thread byhisgrace wrote:

understanding the bible in a proper way is, again, a spiritual matter.

and continually asserted, "However, this is the Holy Spirit issue." rather than attempt to explain his point of view.

From what I understand of his arguments he claims that without the Holy Spirit one cannot understand biblical concepts.

This is not unusual for Christians to make such claims. But the evidence is pretty obvious that the Holy Spirit does not provide such understanding.

If the Holy Spirit provides believers with understanding then it seems obvious that all spirit-filled Christians should believe the same thing. Their interpretations should be in unity with one another. But that is not the case, which is why we have thousands of different denominations. No two Christians will ever come to a consensus on all issues relating to the bible. It just won't happen. But if the Holy Spirit is involved, shouldn't they? After all, there is only one Holy Spirit.

The reason Christians are not in unity is that each one looks at things from their own perspective. And that's the thing; Perspective. If I look at something from a different perspective than you, then I come to a different conclusion. We can choose to look at someone's views from their perspective and as such we can come to an understanding. However coming to an understanding and agreeing with the person is a completely different thing.

So if the Holy Spirit helps us to understand scripture, then why don't all spirit-filled Christians come to the same understanding?

[twobitsmedia]

Ah the old circular reasoning. If they are a true Christian, they'll have the HS. However to be a true Christian, you need to obtain the HS.

Is that what you meant to say? I am reading that if a person is truly Christian they will have the Holy Spirit. But they must obtain it. I don't see it as circular, but redunduant: For one to have, they must obtain. It kind of goes without saying.

[twobitsmedia]

So if the Holy Spirit helps us to understand scripture, then why don't all spirit-filled Christians come to the same understanding?

I think eventually they all will, at least with things of importance. . But having does not imply being forced to use it as a resource.

[OnceConvinced]

Ah the old circular reasoning. If they are a true Christian, they'll have the HS. However to be a true Christian, you need to obtain the HS.

Is that what you meant to say? I am reading that if a person is truly Christian they will have the Holy Spirit. But they must obtain it. I don't see it as circular, but redunduant: For one to have, they must obtain. It kind of goes without saying.

Yeah, you're right. I screwed it up. How about:

To be a true Christian you need the HS. But to get the HS you need to be a true Christian.

How about that?

[led by the spirit]

Christians often make claims about the Holy Spirit and that it brings them certain benefits.

What advantages does the Holy Spirit bring to one's life?

Is it possible to be a Christian without the Holy Spirit?

How does one know if someone else has the Holy Spirit within them?

Greetings my freind

For one your Knowledge will increase,another is ....you become a part of the fathers family.

next.no

finnally.you could ask questions and observe.Like.if that person keeps the commandments (Christ merely summed all 10 into 2) you can discern whethr or not that person is a liar and the truth is not in him by means of the holy knowledg i.e holy spirit wich is clearly the fathers own spirit not some other god like pagan trinity.God bless you my friend.So be it!

[OnceConvinced]

So if the Holy Spirit helps us to understand scripture, then why don't all spirit-filled Christians come to the same understanding?

But having does not imply being forced to use it as a resource.

Perhaps. But is the Holy Spirit something you can switch on or off? If you are studying God's word, would not the Holy Spirit guide you automatically?

Many Christians claim that to understand the gospel, you must have the Holy Spirit within you. However how can anyone tell whether a Christian has a Holy Spirit understanding of scripture? Can we take anyone seriously who claims to have that superiority? If we cannot determine (without the gift of discernment) that someone is spirit-filled then why should we take any Christian seriously who claims special understanding of the bible? How do we know which "spirit-filled" Christian has the correct answers? We can't. Therefore it seems the Holy Spirit is rather ineffective.

I myself would more likely take a Christian seriously who exhibits a high percentage of the fruits of the Holy Spirit. That is the only proof I could see of a person being "spirit-filled".
...................


There are scriptures which seem to suggest the HS should be very effective in spreading the truth amongst Christians:

Jhn 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth.

[OnceConvinced]

Christians often make claims about the Holy Spirit and that it brings them certain benefits.

What advantages does the Holy Spirit bring to one's life?

Is it possible to be a Christian without the Holy Spirit?

How does one know if someone else has the Holy Spirit within them?

Greetings my freind

For one your Knowledge will increase,

I find this an unbelievable claim. In the many years I have been a Christian I have never seen anyone's knowledge noticeably increase after becoming born again. On the contrary. New Christians are pretty much clueless and require a lot of coaching. That's why there are courses for new believers and they are always given piles of literature to read. It's also why Christians are expected to spend time studying the bible. Knowledge is not just given by God, it has to be obtained by hardwork. That fact doesn't change HS or no HS.

Nor have I seen it increase as a result of being baptised in the Holy Spirit or for that matter in water.

How to you come to believe this? Is there any scripture in the bible that supports your wild claim?

next.no

Thus if all are led by the spirit, all should come to the same conclusions with scripture. However they don't.

[
finnally.you could ask questions and observe.Like.if that person keeps the commandments (Christ merely summed all 10 into 2) you can discern whethr or not that person is a liar and the truth is not in him by means of the holy knowledg i.e holy spirit wich is clearly the fathers own spirit not some other god like pagan trinity.God bless you my friend.So be it!

Am I getting this right. You are saying that if one does not keep the commandments (as in the two that encompass pretty much everthing) then the HS is not within them, thus according to Answer no. 2, they are not Christians? Can you honestly claim to have diligently kept those commandments yourself? Can any Christian? Are there times when you have not shown love to your fellow man? Have you always loved the lord with all your heart and all your soul? So if by that criteria I can tell a man to be full of the HS, then I cannot logically believe any man has the HS within them.


You say "ask questions". However you must rely on your own understanding to be able to be able to judge the person you are questioning. What if you're understanding is incorrect?

You say "observe". That is where the fruits of the spirit come in. If we see that a Christian exhibits these, then we can see they are full of the HS. I very much doubt you would ever find a Christian who exhibits all the fruits. And I don't think you could no for sure anyway, as you probably won't see how they behave at home or in private. People who may appear to be spirit-filled at church, can be totally different people at home.

If a Christian is not seen to exhibit a particular fruit. ie, say he is not patient or lacks self control, then how can you truly believe he has the HS? You cannot know for sure, thus how can you take him seriously if he claims to understand scripture that you don't? Why should you take him seriously?