I am here to talk about what I see as the misconception of all Christians being un-free.
Before we begin, however, (the people who have seen me before will be reading this again) I will say that I come to you in the humblest of circumstances, I am still very young.
So, I will start off -- I do not believe that Christians are not free. Oh, and before I begin, know that many of my arguments will be repetitions of what Ben Stuart has said. I listened to one of his sermons ('Shouldn't we Find our own Way?' -- Free on iTunes) and have been inspired to start this debate.
A response to some general commandments in the Bible, which I know will come up:
Yes, there are commandments in the Bible; they were given to us because of Christ's love for us, they were given to us for our own well-being. He wants us to live fully satisfying, joyful, and fulfilled lives, which we could not do without his guidance.
I'm not sure how much I should say before I actually start debating (Oh, the lack of experience!) so I'll leave it at that.
Okay, I'm ready. Go ahead.
Does Christianity restrict your freedom?
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Post #61
Im not really sure of the point of the whole argument but it should be noted that god was left out of all the legal documents.McCulloch wrote:It was well known that many of the founding fathers were deists. Others were Christians. Still others are in dispute. Obviously, in the face of such disagreement, their Creator would mean simply whatever it was that lead to their existence. I might refer to Mother Nature, without implying any kind of literal pagan beliefs. It is a metaphor.
I would not infer too much from capital letters in writings of that period.
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Post #62
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There was no point. Earl was attempting to demonstrate that the "Golden Rule" was responsible for "calm" and wandered all over in the failed attempt. It has nothing to do with the OP or with the discussion.nygreenguy wrote:Im not really sure of the point of the whole argument but it should be noted that god was left out of all the legal documents.McCulloch wrote:It was well known that many of the founding fathers were deists. Others were Christians. Still others are in dispute. Obviously, in the face of such disagreement, their Creator would mean simply whatever it was that lead to their existence. I might refer to Mother Nature, without implying any kind of literal pagan beliefs. It is a metaphor.
I would not infer too much from capital letters in writings of that period.
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Re: Does Christianity restrict your freedom?
Post #63But does the truth really set you free? I think that is one of those scriptures that means well, but really doesn't work in reality. I think the church is way too full of rules, expectations and required standards of behavior to really allow freedom. A lot of condemnation, but probably not a lot of freedom. Of course one can argue that it shouldn't be that way, but it is.Fisherking wrote:"If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin... If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed."(John 8McCulloch wrote:
The Jesus of the Bible asks that his followers take up their cross and follow him. He asks for complete obedience. I don't see how that can not reduce the level of freedom that the believer has. Can you?
I have found the more I follow Jesus and his teaching the freer I become.
BTW, I did not feel that I was being restricted as a Christan. Now that I look back, I could see that I was restricted in ways that I am not restricted now.
Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.
Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.
There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.
Check out my website: Recker's World
Re: Does Christianity restrict your freedom?
Post #64OnceConvinced wrote:But does the truth really set you free?
Fisherking wrote:I have found the more I follow Jesus and his teaching the freer I become.
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Re: Does Christianity restrict your freedom?
Post #65This shows me that truth is subjective. OnceConvinced feels he is freer without Christianity, you feel you are freer with it.Fisherking wrote:OnceConvinced wrote:But does the truth really set you free?Fisherking wrote:I have found the more I follow Jesus and his teaching the freer I become.
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�
Steven Novella
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Re: Does Christianity restrict your freedom?
Post #66These statements may show that the feeling of freedom is subjective but I fail to see how they say anything about the objectivity or subjectivity of truth.goat wrote:This shows me that truth is subjective. OnceConvinced feels he is freer without Christianity, you feel you are freer with it.Fisherking wrote:OnceConvinced wrote:But does the truth really set you free?Fisherking wrote:I have found the more I follow Jesus and his teaching the freer I become.
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Re: Does Christianity restrict your freedom?
Post #67It depends on what you call 'truth'. There are several types. One are called 'facts' . When it comes to spirituality, the TRUTH of Jesus is what you follow, and for Onceconvinced, the TRUTH that Jesus is a myth is what he follows.Fisherking wrote:These statements may show that the feeling of freedom is subjective but I fail to see how they say anything about the objectivity or subjectivity of truth.goat wrote:This shows me that truth is subjective. OnceConvinced feels he is freer without Christianity, you feel you are freer with it.Fisherking wrote:OnceConvinced wrote:But does the truth really set you free?Fisherking wrote:I have found the more I follow Jesus and his teaching the freer I become.
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�
Steven Novella
Steven Novella
Post #69
Under any context? Or just when applied to a god/human relationship?Catharsis wrote:>>>Does Christianity restrict your freedom?<<<
It depends how one defines 'Freedom'. To answer this definitions for 'Person' and 'Human Nature' are also needed.
The traditional Christian definition of Freedom completely differs from the secular/worldly one.
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Post #70
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Are you in doubt about the meaning of “person�?
Do you have access to a dictionary?
Kindly provide the “Christian Definition� of freedom and cite your sources.
Is your "Christian definition" generally acceptable to Christians? Unless you can show that it is, how can it be regarded as the "Christian definition"?
Freedom has been defined in this thread (posts #20 and 24). Do you disagree with the definitions or offer another to be considered?Catharsis wrote:It depends how one defines 'Freedom'.Does Christianity restrict your freedom?
Of course, and definitions of “definition� and “answer� and “needed� are also needed.Catharsis wrote: To answer this definitions for 'Person' and 'Human Nature' are also needed.
Are you in doubt about the meaning of “person�?
Do you have access to a dictionary?
Since we are not all Christians but since we all DO live in the world, it would seem appropriate that we speak in terms of the world if we intend to communicate.Catharsis wrote: The traditional Christian definition of Freedom completely differs from the secular/worldly one.
Kindly provide the “Christian Definition� of freedom and cite your sources.
Is your "Christian definition" generally acceptable to Christians? Unless you can show that it is, how can it be regarded as the "Christian definition"?
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Non-Theist
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
Non-Theist
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence