Why do you believe in God?

[McCulloch]

The arguments for believing that there is a God can be categorized as follows:

1. Four Classical Arguments
2. The Argument from First Cause
   1. Everything must have a cause
   2. Causal Chains cannot go on forever
   3. Therefore there must be a first cause, and that is God.
3. The Argument from Design
   1. Something in the universe or the universe itself seems to be designed
   2. Therefore a designer must exist and that is God
4. The Argument from the Anthropic Principle
   1. The universal constants are fine tuned for the existence of humans.
   2. Therefore there must have been a God to fine tune the universe for our existence
5. The Ontological Argument
   1. God is a being than which nothing greater can be conceived.
   2. Assume that God does not exist.
   3. An existent God is a being greater than a non-existent one
   4. If God did not exist, then we could conceive of a being greater than God -- A God that exists.
   5. This is a contradiction, therefore (2) must be false and God exists
   Courtesy of Saint Anselm.

1. Four Subjective Arguments
2. The Argument from Coincidence
   1. There have been some remarkable coincidences.
   2. There must be a reason for those coincidences.
   3. That reason is God.
3. The Argument from Prophecy
   1. A holy book makes prophesies.
   2. A holy book or the adherents of it report that those prophesies have come true.
   3. Therefore whatever else is in the book, such as the claim that God exists must be true.
4. The Argument from Subjectivity and Faith
   1. People feel sure that God exists.
   2. Therefore God exists.
5. The Argument from Divine Interventions, Miracles and such
   1. A miracle occurs, perhaps as a response to prayer.
   2. God exists as evidenced by the divine intervention

1. Four Psycho-Mathematical Arguments
2. The Argument from Redefinition
   1. God is Love or Goodness or some other such thing.
   2. Love, goodness or whatever, clearly exists.
   3. Therefore God exists.
3. The Argument from Cognitive Tendency
   1. Some cognitive tendencies suggest the existence of an all-powerful agent.
   2. God must be that all-powerful agent
4. The Universality Argument and Morality
   1. Across cultures, the similarities in moral values are quite apparent.
   2. They must come from God
5. The Gambling Argument
   1. We can choose to believe or not in God.
   2. If we choose wrongly then negative consequences of choosing to disbelieve are greater than the negative consequences of choosing to believe.
   3. Therefore it is prudent to believe.

The classifications and much of the synopses are from John Allen Paulos, Professor of Mathematics at Temple University, in his book Irreligion, A Mathematician Explains Why the Arguments for God Just Don't Add Up As fallacious as these might seem, these seriously are the arguments put forth by philosophers, theologians, saints, apologists and preachers.

These are the arguments for God. There are numerous subtle variations on them, but essentially, as far as I can tell those who claim that God exists do so based on one or more of these arguments and nothing else.

Why should I believe that there is a God? What are your reasons? Are any of these reasons valid? If your reasons do not fall into any of the above groupings, please let us know why you believe. If you believe for a combination of these reasons, select the strongest one and explain why.

[twobitsmedia]

And in case you missed the computational revolution in cognitive science, we now recgonize that the brain is an organic computer, just as the arm is an organic lever.

Yes, science will soon equate man with slime as they offer their pearls of wisdom on the scientifically gullible. If I thought that choosing God to exist was a choice, I would still make the choice in favor of a "God" for at least "God" gives man dignity.

[Thought Criminal]

Yes, science will soon equate man with slime as they offer their pearls of wisdom on the scientifically gullible. If I thought that choosing God to exist was a choice, I would still make the choice in favor of a "God" for at least "God" gives man dignity.

I'm going to go with the truth here, regardless of how it affects my ego.

TC

[Goat]

Can you show that those two things are mutually exclusive? Perhaps you are talking to both.. a biological computer who just so happens to be a person.

No, I can't.
But I would find it hard to believe that you would, for even an instant, think that you are a machine.

What is a machine? If you look at the dictionary definition , from
http://www.answers.com/topic/machine

4. An intricate natural system or organism, such as the human body.

If you came in during the middle of the show, the machine we were talking about was a computer.

...do you think that the machine in front of you will ever be able to feel this way about itself?

But, you're comment was 'are you a machine or a person'. I am saying those two things are not mutually exclusive. With some of the new circuits that are being developed, components in the computers are being organic.

[olavisjo]

But, you're comment was 'are you a machine or a person'. I am saying those two things are not mutually exclusive. With some of the new circuits that are being developed, components in the computers are being organic.

Yeah, I have heard about that. They can combine electronic parts with actual nerve cells, but they are a long way from creating a thinking feeling entity.
This is the stuff that good Science Fiction is made of, like what happens when computers become way more intelligent than us, and enslave us to work for them and their sadistic pleasure.
You need not worry as they were not created in the image of God, we were. Therefore, these machines will never dominate us.

[olavisjo]

And in case you missed the computational revolution in cognitive science, we now recognize that the brain is an organic computer, just as the arm is an organic lever.

Or do you prefer the obsolete notion that the brain's primary purpose is to disperse body heat?

TC

Yes, the brain is a computational machine, but the soul that resides in the brain is not.
I never heard of the notion of heat dissipation, when and where was this idea held?

[Fallibleone]

Ah - you must have seen evidence which shows that the soul resides in the brain, otherwise your statement would just be an unsupported assertion. Can we see it please?

[McCulloch]

They can combine electronic parts with actual nerve cells, but they are a long way from creating a thinking feeling entity.

True, but is it possible?

This is the stuff that good Science Fiction is made of, like what happens when computers become way more intelligent than us, and enslave us to work for them and their sadistic pleasure.

Good science fiction makes us sit up and think, hypothetically, about where science may lead us. Simply dismissing an idea because it resembles science fiction is not valid nor intellectually honest.

You need not worry as they were not created in the image of God, we were. Therefore, these machines will never dominate us.

Tying this to the question for debate, it appears as if Olavisjo believes that God exists because not to believe opens up the terrifying possibility that we are not a special creation, favored by the Creator of the Universe. To admit to the possibility that we are simply part of the biological film that has developed on a small planet near the edge of an ordinary galaxy, would lead to a lack of purpose and despair. Much better to put on the God glasses and see in everything how God has made the universe just for us and loves us and focuses his divine attention on our well being.

[olavisjo]

This is the stuff that good Science Fiction is made of, like what happens when computers become way more intelligent than us, and enslave us to work for them and their sadistic pleasure.

Good science fiction makes us sit up and think, hypothetically, about where science may lead us. Simply dismissing an idea because it resembles science fiction is not valid nor intellectually honest.

I am not dismissing the idea, in fact I do think something along those lines will happen, only these hyper intelligent machines will not be mere machines, they will incarnated demons.

You need not worry as they were not created in the image of God, we were. Therefore, these machines will never dominate us.

Tying this to the question for debate, it appears as if Olavisjo believes that God exists because not to believe opens up the terrifying possibility that we are not a special creation, favored by the Creator of the Universe. To admit to the possibility that we are simply part of the biological film that has developed on a small planet near the edge of an ordinary galaxy, would lead to a lack of purpose and despair. Much better to put on the God glasses and see in everything how God has made the universe just for us and loves us and focuses his divine attention on our well being.

Well said, I could not have put it any better myself.

[olavisjo]

Ah - you must have seen evidence which shows that the soul resides in the brain, otherwise your statement would just be an unsupported assertion. Can we see it please?

Sure you can, just close your eyes and take in that beautiful thing that is happening inside your head, feel the warmth of your own thoughts, can you feel a smile on your lips as you marvel at how wonderful it is to be alive and appreciate this great gift of a moment in time.

[Fallibleone]

Ah - you must have seen evidence which shows that the soul resides in the brain, otherwise your statement would just be an unsupported assertion. Can we see it please?

Sure you can, just close your eyes and take in that beautiful thing that is happening inside your head, feel the warmth of your own thoughts, can you feel a smile on your lips as you marvel at how wonderful it is to be alive and appreciate this great gift of a moment in time.

What's going on inside my head at the moment is 'why did I have to contract tonsillitis 4 days before I am due to leave for a very rare vacation to Italy?'

Have you got any actual proof that the soul resides in the brain?