Sense of supiority

[Nilloc James]

I am sorry if you are Christan and this does not apply to you.

I have noticed a disturbing trend of Christians believing they are better than all of faiths or lack of.

Would one please say why they believe/disbelieve this in the case of those who do not.

[Nilloc James]

I have two points

1)In that case the non-beleiver could have taken the effort to look down the road and see the bud, there was physical evidence, something that does not exist with religion.

2) You are also assuming allnon-beleivers are commiting sins like there is no tommorow, many follow the same rules as christainity, they simpilty skip the religion step and are good people becayse they chose to. In this situation it is the religous person who is doing good things out of hope of reward and fear of punishments. The non-beleiver does good things out of the goodness of their heart, not fear of punishment.

Point one... The bible is the physical evidence of the truth which is believed by Christians and the Spiritual is the presence of the Spirit. The first being seen as a witness and the second not seen by those not in Spirit.

Point two... There is no comparison to this link of non-believers sinning. The truth is good works does not save a sinner simply the truth about Jesus Christ.
The Believers actions are selfless based in the love and truth given by God and being in the fruit of the Spirit they use their gifts to the glory of God and the benefit of all. Nothing to do with themselves. Where as the non-believer does not do it from selfless motives it is because it makes them feel good to do them. Nothing selfless about that.

Love Faith.xx

You keep refering to tis spirit, prove it.

I want evidence tat this spirit exist.

The Believers actions are selfless based in the love and truth given by God and being in the fruit of the Spirit they use their gifts to the glory of God and the benefit of all. Nothing to do with themselves. Where as the non-believer does not do it from selfless motives it is because it makes them feel good to do them. Nothing selfless about that.

So me giving 50 dollars to a CHRISTAin charity due to its practical benifts is me being selfish, however if a christain does it is love.

That is flawed logic.

Many eligous people are afraid to admit that atheists can be just as moral and ethical giving selflissly. For they need to demonize someone in order to be "supiror" and without that group they have to fce the fact they do kind acts out of fear of punishment and hope of reward, showing that they are indeed selfish.

[faith]

Zzyzx"].

I guess that would have to include all Christians wouldn't it?

All Christians who convey an attitude of superiority are included. Those who do not are NOT included.

You missed the pont, no Christian in truth of what a christian is could be included...

After all Christians believe in the same God, and there is only one Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.

Correction: There are THOUSANDS of "gods" and "spirits". That you THINK there is only one "god" is an indication that you believe your favorite "god" to be superior to all others (that must be regarded as "false" if yours is the "only god").

Not in Christianity. Are you saying Buddhist and all other religions believe in Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit and their God is called Yahweh?
You see we were talking about Christians and these other faiths are not Christians..

Christianity preachs that its followers are "chosen" and "saved" and that any who refuse to worship the Christians' favorite "god" are NOT chosen or saved?

It teaches many are called but few are chosen... Are you discussing christianity?
It preaches that salvation was before the foundation of the world. It shows that at the end of time all will be judged according to their works. Those who believe are automatically saved from judgement. The rest will still be judged.

Would you say that it is superior to go to "heaven" rather than going to "hell"? Are residents of "heaven" superior to those of "hell" according to Christian lore?

As going to heaven and hell is the personal choice of a person. So it is not about superiority but taking responsibility for the choices we make... Nothing to do with superiority because it has nothing to do with our status in life...

As true Christianity teaches selflessness and love in truth and of God and others.

Kindly define what is meant by "true Christianity" and the criteria by which "true Christian" individuals and groups can be identified.

As Christ said, " If you follow him you must take his yoke and do as he did."
This is Christianity and being Christlike is the true definition by which a believer can be identified.

Surely your observation is really an opinion not based on any trend but the bias that exists in todays society against Christians.

"Bias against Christians"?????????

Christians claim to represent 80% of the US population.

Well I don't and neither do the Christians who live in Europe. Tell me you were jesting with this comment...

EXACTLY WHO do you claim is involved in a "trend" toward "bias"????????

Do you ever read your own posts?

You question lacks evidence if looked at in the truth of Christianity.

A question, by definition, lacks evidence " it ASKS for information (or evidence).

Were you thinking of providing any evidence in your post?

Tell me, if a religion of any kind teaches their believers their God is the only true God. Doesn't the person reflect loyalty and sincerity to repeat it and not superiority?

Religions which teach that their favorite "gods" are the only "true gods" ARE teaching elitism. They ARE teaching their customers that other religions are inferior " are false.

Ssshhh don't tell anyone but that is just a rumour started by atheists...

If others worship "false gods" and are "going to hell", aren't they being regarded as inferior?

Why have they given star ratings to heaven and hell?
Here is me thinking that heaven and hell was a choice just like hotels.
Do you think those who are not christian who believe their God is the only God is not regarding the Christians God as being inferior?
Guess everyone with faith believes they are superior or is it just the atheist making useless arguments which falls when examined more closely?

If a religion teaches that those who refuse to worship its favorite "gods" are infidels, heretics, heathens, apostates, or other derisive terms is the religion not teaching superiority?

Well can you prove that any of the Gods exist? No! So nothing superior about any of it, is there. Just men attacking faith of any religion really. Shame on you...

I believe there is a difference between confidence and sincerity in believing your faith and that being seen as superiority.

You are free to believe whatever you like.

As you see no one is free to believe what they like. Because people keep believing the worst and inventing lies about religions and those who believe in them...

However, a religion COULD be confident and sincere WITHOUT damning the worship practices of others.

Only atheists damning religions in your post...

A religion COULD recognize that its teachings are NOT supported by any more evidence of truth than other religions.

So could atheists practice the same thing.

Religions COULD teach respect for the "gods" and worship practices of other religions instead of denigrating them and declaring them false. That is a form of competition " businesses competing for customers.

As an atheist haven't you been declaring every faith false and making false accusations? Don't you believe your atheism is the only truth? Seems you need to practice what you preach...

It is saddening to think that some one who is faithful and sincere in their believe must be labelled by those who lack understanding of it.

Are you sure that those who speak against your favorite religion "lack understanding of it"?

Well in your case, evidently you do lack understanding. Not just in regards to my faith but all faiths...

What you just did is to claim superior understanding of Christianity for those who practice the faith. That IS a claim of superiority and it is a claim that cannot be supported by reasoning or evidence. It is another example of a false claim of superiority based strictly upon religion.

Those not in Spirit cannot understand the things of the Spirit. Those who still require milk cannot understand what the Spirit is teaching those who are meat eaters. Again you lack knowledge of Christianity and it's teachings...

Perhaps you did not intend to openly claim superiority for Christians " but you did so, even if inadvertently. Those little slips give away deeply held (or even unconscious) thoughts. Thank you for the demonstration.

On the contrary thank you for proving me right and that it is you the atheist who make false claims due to lack of understanding...

Are you not aware that Non-Christian members of this forum include at least two former Christian ministers and at least one former professor of comparative religion? Are you not aware that many members are Ex-Christians " some of whom were devout believers?

Are you not aware that the bible teaches...


2 thessalonians 2:10-12.

10.And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11.And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12.That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousnes

The parable of the seed where they fall away before bearing fruit.
The parable of the 10 virgins how 5 were foolish and 5 were not.

The word shows that some will fall away which means they never received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Dwvout believers do not fall away only those who are led by the flesh...

Do you realize that you HAVE claimed that those people "lack understanding" of Christianity? Do you make that claim because you KNOW what they understand and do not understand OR do you make the claim based upon the fact that they are not presently Christians?

I make the claim based in the truth of Christianity and the fact I am taught by God.
Isaiah 54:13 (King James Version)

13And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children.

John 6:44-45.
44.No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45.It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

John 6:39.And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day


Not one which the Father teaches, draws and sends is lost...
Self-examination is really important to see if we are living in truth and walking in the Spirit. I believe the Lord God tells us the truth...

Who is telling the truth? The men fit into the catergories told in the word.
So how does being the ones who never bear fruit give them more knowledge than those who do?

Love Faith.xx

[drs]

.

If others worship "false gods" and are "going to hell", aren't they being regarded as inferior?

If a religion teaches that those who refuse to worship its favorite "gods" are infidels, heretics, heathens, apostates, or other derisive terms is the religion not teaching superiority?

I believe there is a difference between confidence and sincerity in believing your faith and that being seen as superiority.

You are free to believe whatever you like.

However, a religion COULD be confident and sincere WITHOUT damning the worship practices of others.

A religion COULD recognize that its teachings are NOT supported by any more evidence of truth than other religions.

Religions COULD teach respect for the "gods" and worship practices of other religions instead of denigrating them and declaring them false. That is a form of competition " businesses competing for customers.

quote]

This is the difference GOD supports the truth through CHRIST.

GOD has not called us to go lie to the people and say that your different religions are good and acceptable.

CHRIST has called us to truth and respect for other gods(demons) is a vile thing in the sight of GOD because they lead people away from the truth and decieve them into believing that these religions actutaly lead to GOD.

It's not that other religions are inferior, it is that there is no GOD behind them so they are fasle and do not hold truth only deception.

It is not that there are better and different religions, there is only the truth and untruth.

And the only true and loving thing for us to do who our in CHRIST, is to call to all the people of the world to leave false ways and false religions and come to CHRIST in repentence for sin as GOD has commanded.

[Nilloc James]

.

If others worship "false gods" and are "going to hell", aren't they being regarded as inferior?

If a religion teaches that those who refuse to worship its favorite "gods" are infidels, heretics, heathens, apostates, or other derisive terms is the religion not teaching superiority?

I believe there is a difference between confidence and sincerity in believing your faith and that being seen as superiority.

You are free to believe whatever you like.

However, a religion COULD be confident and sincere WITHOUT damning the worship practices of others.

A religion COULD recognize that its teachings are NOT supported by any more evidence of truth than other religions.

Religions COULD teach respect for the "gods" and worship practices of other religions instead of denigrating them and declaring them false. That is a form of competition " businesses competing for customers.

quote]

This is the difference GOD supports the truth through CHRIST.

GOD has not called us to go lie to the people and say that your different religions are good and acceptable.

CHRIST has called us to truth and respect for other gods(demons) is a vile thing in the sight of GOD because they lead people away from the truth and decieve them into believing that these religions actutaly lead to GOD.

It's not that other religions are inferior, it is that there is no GOD behind them so they are fasle and do not hold truth only deception.

It is not that there are better and different religions, there is only the truth and untruth.

And the only true and loving thing for us to do who our in CHRIST, is to call to all the people of the world to leave false ways and false religions and come to CHRIST in repentence for sin as GOD has commanded.

Please provide evidence to two things you said
1)Your religion is correct
2)ALL other religions are wrong

[JoeyKnothead]

I appreciate the content, and perhaps the intent of Miss Faith's message here. I appreciate her kind approach, and her willingness to share her position. However, I can't let statements offered without evidence to go unchallenged. So...

From Page 2 Post 15:

In true christianity and humility believers in truth know in Christ all men and women are equal.

I would propose those who "truly believe in truth" would not make claims of "truth" for which they have no evidence.
We see this a lot in Christianity, and I think this application of "truth" as whatever the Bible says to be the very superiority complex the OP speaks of.
Claims are made for which no proof can be offered; folks getting up out of their graves, animals conversing with humans, all kinds of fantastical carryings on. Notice though, all these claims are made with no proof offered, no evidence other than human proclamation.
This "truth" Christians speak of can't be shown to be "truth", it can only be shown to be the ancient tales of an ancient people. Yet folks will declare this "truth", and declare since they believe these "truths", they would be "believers in truth". When in "truth" they are believers in claims that can't be shown to be "truth".

"Truth", often touted, seldom heard among religious proclamations.

Then when those folks would question these "truths", what "truth" does the Bible offer? Non-believers are liars, cohorts of or Satan himself. Non-believers are "fools", and all kinds of slander and more. More unprovable "truths" of how evil and worthless are the non-believers.

"Truth". Not found in the Bible, but claimed by its adherents.

Let's go back through Miss Faith's claims here, and see if there are any "truths", or whether these "truths" are the unproven claims of an adherent who can't recognize "truth" from "claiming stuff simply because some book says it".

The body whether a leg or arm are all necessary as they make up the whole held together in love through the presence of the Holy Spirit.

Prove this is "truth".

Prove folks are held together by the presence of the Holy Spirit.

Prove the "truth" this Holy Spirit exists.

If your claims can't be proven, by what arrogance are you so blithely spouting your claims as "truth"?

Pastors will be held accountable for they actually do teach others.

Other than the courts? Are you claiming Pastors will be somehow be held accountable in a hereafter? If so, I challenge you to prove the "truth" of your claims.

But the Spirit is the true teacher and we all are called to obey him.

Prove it.

Prove the "truth" of your claim this Holy Spirit is a teacher, true or not. Prove this "Holy Spirit" is anything but a construct of the human mind.

but God is good and he love you no more and no less than anyone else who belongs to Jesus.

Prove it.

Prove the "truth" that this God exists. Prove the "truth" that this God is good. Prove the "truth" that somehow belonging to Jesus will see favor in the eyes of this God.

"Truth" is not subject to claims that can't be proven. "Truth" is far too important a concept to let Christians claim as there own. "Truth" is far to important to have Christians mangle the very definition of the word in order to conflate their fantastical, unproven claims as anything but myth.

If there is "truth" in Christianity, then surely there can be some evidence for folks to believe it is indeed "truth". Where is this evidence? In the Bible? In prayer? In church? This 'evidence' always seems to be tucked away in some far corner of philosophy, some far corner of the human mind. This evidence, this "truth", is always somewhere where it can't be observed, it can't be witnessed.

This 'evidence' just never seems to appear along with "truth".

[msmcneal]

drs: Again, you have completely failed to address the topic. If you can offer no other proof than "faith", which is no proof at all, simply a cruth for those without the ability to use logic and reason, and for those who completely reject reality and our thought processes, then I will no longer engage you in debate, since you are unwilling to debate in the first place. Have a good day.

Surely your observation is really an opinion not based on any trend but the bias that exists in todays society against Christians

The only "bias" against Christianity or any other religion is the fact that their faith is not based on any objective evidence, and completely rejects logic. It's not a bias, it's only a willingness to use our minds, which some Christians seem completely unable to do.

The truth is that if someone tells you not to cross the road and there is a bus coming. If you decide to ignore the warning and cross the road and are hit by the bus. Doesn't that make the person foolish for not having believed what was said

False analogy. A bus, and the probabilty of getting hit by one, are objective facts. There's ample proof that it has happened before, and can happen again. Christianity, and any other religion that teaches some sort of eternal damnation for rejecting their beliefs, is not based on objective proof, but only faith, which is based on a lack of objective proof, and based instead on the individuals accepting of beliefs and events that cannot be independently verified.

The bible is the physical evidence of the truth which is believed by Christians

I have two problems with this. 1. The Bible contains numerous contradictions and inaccuracies, and 2. The very idea that something that is said to be "perfect" (God), should not, and, at least theoretically, cannot, use that which is imperfect (a book and man's language) to reach that which is imperfect.

There is no comparison to this link of non-believers sinning. The truth is good works does not save a sinner simply the truth about Jesus Christ.
The Believers actions are selfless based in the love and truth given by God and being in the fruit of the Spirit they use their gifts to the glory of God and the benefit of all. Nothing to do with themselves. Where as the non-believer does not do it from selfless motives it is because it makes them feel good to do them. Nothing selfless about that.

Altruism isn't logical. And Christians do "good deeds" to appease their God, for whatever reason, whether you believe in salvation through faith and works, that works are a manifestation of faith, that works earns you rewards in heaven, etc. These are not altruistic either.

So it is not about superiority but taking responsibility for the choices we make

But if a Christian "sins", then all they have to do is ask for forgiveness, and it's forgoten, correct? There is no responsibility, especially if one believes Calvin's dogma of "once-saved-always-saved." That dogma simply compounds the problems that those who believe salvation can be lost do not have.

Quote:
faith wrote:
Tell me, if a religion of any kind teaches their believers their God is the only true God. Doesn't the person reflect loyalty and sincerity to repeat it and not superiority?

Religions which teach that their favorite "gods" are the only "true gods" ARE teaching elitism. They ARE teaching their customers that other religions are inferior " are false.


Ssshhh don't tell anyone but that is just a rumour started by atheists...

I'm hoping this is sarcastic.

Well can you prove that any of the Gods exist? No!

And herein lies the problem. No one, not even you or any other Christian, can prove any god or gods exist. That's the whole reason there are these debates in the first place.

Because people keep believing the worst and inventing lies about religions and those who believe in them

Prove it. I was a Christian for over 25 years, and studied theology every moment I had. And I still left, not because of any lies, but because Christianity simply does not make sense and cannot be proven. There is no evidence at all to suggest it is THE true religion, much less that a god even exists. The claims atheists and agnostics make about Christianity are only lies to those who practice Christianity. But that's only because they are not willing to examine the evidence.

Well in your case, evidently you do lack understanding. Not just in regards to my faith but all faiths...

Let me see if I understand this. Let's say an atheist or agnostic spends much time and effort studying a particular religion, let's say Christianity. And then rejects Christianity based on the evidence. In your view, this is not because of the study and examination involved, but simply lack of understanding, for no other reason than they rejected it? This makes no sense at all, and somehow I suspect that you know that.

Those not in Spirit cannot understand the things of the Spirit

This is a cop-out. Christians are not able to accept that a person can study Christianity and reject it. They are not also able to comprehend that a person, after being a Christian for many years, can eventually reject it. To those Christians, it's never the fact that said atheist or agnostic done the research, it's only because they were not able to understand, or tricked by the devil. This is dishonest and does, in fact, exhibit a sense of superiority.

On the contrary thank you for proving me right and that it is you the atheist who make false claims due to lack of understanding

Case in point.

[realthinker]

Altruism isn't logical. And Christians do "good deeds" to appease their God, for whatever reason, whether you believe in salvation through faith and works, that works are a manifestation of faith, that works earns you rewards in heaven, etc. These are not altruistic either.

But altruism is logical! We are each part of a social unit. We know that the social structure around us -- our neighborhood, our town, our city -- is something from which we derive direct benefit. Very, very few of us would survive long if isolated in a natural environment. We are social animals. Altruistic behavior returns unnecessary resources back to the social unit, which will in turn be returned to the individual or to later offspring. It's a positive feedback, or perhaps an insurance, or maybe just a hedge bet. Why is altruism so hard to fathom? I've seen it portrayed as something bordering on mystical around here numerous times.

Religiously motivated "altruism" is often either pointed at others with the same beliefs or an advertisement or coercion such that it causes the religion to gain status or influence, and thereby gain more followers.

[Zzyzx]

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After all Christians believe in the same God, and there is only one Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.

Correction: There are THOUSANDS of "gods" and "spirits". That you THINK there is only one "god" is an indication that you believe your favorite "god" to be superior to all others (that must be regarded as "false" if yours is the "only god").

Not in Christianity. Are you saying Buddhist and all other religions believe in Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit and their God is called Yahweh?

Do you deny that thousands of different "gods" are or have been worshiped by humans?

Do you not realize that your favorite "god" is just one of the thousands " with no more valid a claim to being "real" than other "gods"? You have books, they have books; you have miracle stories, they have miracle stories; you have supernatural beings; they have supernatural beings.

You may believe your beliefs are "right" or "true" " but that is only opinion based on "faith" (emotion) and opinion. There are NO facts to show that your "god" is real and that others are "false" " no matter what you claim. If you think otherwise, try to present evidence that your "god" is more real than Allah, or Vishnu, or Quetzaquotal

You see we were talking about Christians and these other faiths are not Christians..

What Christians may or may not believe has nothing to do with truth. Belief is not synonymous with truth.

Christianity preachs that its followers are "chosen" and "saved" and that any who refuse to worship the Christians' favorite "god" are NOT chosen or saved?

It teaches many are called but few are chosen... Are you discussing christianity?
It preaches that salvation was before the foundation of the world.

Are there sects of Christianity that disagree with this "teaching"?

It shows that at the end of time all will be judged according to their works. Those who believe are automatically saved from judgement. The rest will still be judged.

Are there sects of Christianity that disagree with this "teaching"?

Would you say that it is superior to go to "heaven" rather than going to "hell"? Are residents of "heaven" superior to those of "hell" according to Christian lore?

As going to heaven and hell is the personal choice of a person. So it is not about superiority but taking responsibility for the choices we make... Nothing to do with superiority because it has nothing to do with our status in life.

I ask again, is going to heaven superior to going to hell?

If you don't know or if it doesn't make any difference, there is no reason to seek "salvation".

As true Christianity teaches selflessness and love in truth and of God and others.

Kindly define what is meant by "true Christianity" and the criteria by which "true Christian" individuals and groups can be identified.

As Christ said, " If you follow him you must take his yoke and do as he did."
This is Christianity and being Christlike is the true definition by which a believer can be identified.

Various irrational statements are attributed to Jesus in bible stories " including a demand that people hate their family and give away their possessions. None of the statements can be verified as actual word of Jesus.

Christians evidently cannot agree upon what "being Christlike" means. Perhaps you can settle the issue with a clear statement that will be acceptable to Christians in general.

If not, the term has no generally accepted meaning among Christians (let alone everyone else).

Surely your observation is really an opinion not based on any trend but the bias that exists in todays society against Christians.

"Bias against Christians"?????????

Christians claim to represent 80% of the US population.

Well I don't and neither do the Christians who live in Europe. Tell me you were jesting with this comment.

Do you live in the US?

What percentage of the US population do YOU accept as being Christian?

EXACTLY WHO do you claim is involved in a "trend" toward "bias"????????

Do you ever read your own posts?

I am ONE person who is opposed to ALL organized, commercial religion.

Does that, in your mind, constitute a "trend toward bias" against Christianity?

I do my part to dispel the myths spread by those who cannot substantiate the stories they tell. Those who cannot support their tales may feel uncomfortable.

You question lacks evidence if looked at in the truth of Christianity.

A question, by definition, lacks evidence " it ASKS for information (or evidence).

Were you thinking of providing any evidence in your post?

What evidence might I be expected to provide to substantiate anything I said?

Kindly quote verbatim any statement that you regard as false and that requires substantiation.

Will you agree to substantiate your statements as well?

Tell me, if a religion of any kind teaches their believers their God is the only true God. Doesn't the person reflect loyalty and sincerity to repeat it and not superiority?

Religions which teach that their favorite "gods" are the only "true gods" ARE teaching elitism. They ARE teaching their customers that other religions are inferior " are false.

Ssshhh don't tell anyone but that is just a rumour started by atheists..

I will allow the readers to decide if teaching "our god is the only true god" constitutes teaching that other religions are inferior or false.

I doubt that serious readers are impressed by efforts to be cute in serious debate.

If others worship "false gods" and are "going to hell", aren't they being regarded as inferior?

Why have they given star ratings to heaven and hell?

That makes no sense at all. Would you care to attempt to explain to readers the meaning of whatever you are attempting to say?

Here is me thinking that heaven and hell was a choice just like hotels.

I see. That makes as much sense as anything else you have presented.

Do you think those who are not christian who believe their God is the only God is not regarding the Christians God as being inferior?

If other religions teach "ours is the only true god" they ARE teaching that all other religions (including Christianity) are false and inferior.

Do two wrongs make a right in your value system? Because "they do it" is it alright if "we" do it too?

Guess everyone with faith believes they are superior or is it just the atheist making useless arguments which falls when examined more closely?

Not every religion teaches that all others are false. Reading Cnorman's views on Judaism gives one a clear picture of a religionist NOT condemning others as false.

Again, you blunder assuming that Zzyzx is an Atheist. Let's see how many times you make that false claim in this post.

If a religion teaches that those who refuse to worship its favorite "gods" are infidels, heretics, heathens, apostates, or other derisive terms is the religion not teaching superiority?

Well can you prove that any of the Gods exist?

Of course not, and neither can you, and neither can anyone else.

However that is a dodge to avoid answering the question. Try reading it again and answering what was asked instead of changing the subject.

No! So nothing superior about any of it, is there.

Being unable to demonstrate that a favored "god" is real does NOT prevent preaching that "my god is best" (which IS a claim of superiority).

Have you ever claimed that your "god" was real and that another "god" was false?

Just men attacking faith of any religion really. Shame on you...

Shame on Christians and their literature that declare that "other gods are false gods".

I believe there is a difference between confidence and sincerity in believing your faith and that being seen as superiority.

You are free to believe whatever you like.

As you see no one is free to believe what they like.

As is becoming a pattern, this makes no sense whatever.

Because people keep believing the worst and inventing lies about religions and those who believe in them..

"Inventing lies" " kindly quote verbatim.

If it was true, how would that keep people from being free to believe whatever they wish? Are you saying that you are NOT free to believe what you wish if someone criticizes what you claim without substantiation?

]However, a religion COULD be confident and sincere WITHOUT damning the worship practices of others.

Only atheists damning religions in your post..

Zzyzx is not an Atheist. Many theists catch on very slowly to that difficult concept.

What you characterize as "damning religions" is ONLY asking for evidence that the stories are told are true. Notice that is the entirety of my position. I am asked to believe supernatural tales and I ask for evidence they are true. That is all.

However, no evidence is supplied " only excuses. When religionists become frustrated by requests for evidence, they often become angry and hostile. Have you noticed that?

Why is there no evidence (other than promotional literature and opinion) to show that all the wonderful stories about "gods" and "angels" and "miracles" are true? Why is there no more evidence to show truth in your supposedly "true" religion than there is for others your religion declares "false"?

Why with all those stories isn't there one scrap of real evidence that any of it was literally true in the real world?

A religion COULD recognize that its teachings are NOT supported by any more evidence of truth than other religions.

So could atheists practice the same thing.

Since I am not an Atheist, I cannot speak for Atheism; however, I note that what you say makes no sense. Do you somehow fail to realize that Atheism is simply a statement of NOT believing in gods and religions?

Religions COULD teach respect for the "gods" and worship practices of other religions instead of denigrating them and declaring them false. That is a form of competition " businesses competing for customers.

As an atheist haven't you been declaring every faith false and making false accusations?

Since I am NOT an Atheist you start with a very incorrect assumption.

I do NOT declare every faith false. Kindly quote verbatim any statement of mine to that effect. You cannot do so. Do you enjoy being wrong?

Kindly quote verbatim "false accusations". You cannot.

Don't you believe your atheism is the only truth?

1) I am not an Atheist
2) I absolutely do NOT "believe" that ANYTHING I say is "the only truth". That is childish in my estimation (and appears to be much more characteristics of Fundamentalist Christians than of non-believers in my experience).
3) I am more than willing to reconsider ANY of my positions if presented with evidence that they are wrong and that other ways are better. Can you present any such evidence? (Not to include unverifiable stories, personal opinions, conjecture and testimonials).

Seems you need to practice what you preach

I do.

It is saddening to think that some one who is faithful and sincere in their believe must be labelled by those who lack understanding of it.

Are you sure that those who speak against your favorite religion "lack understanding of it"?

Well in your case, evidently you do lack understanding. Not just in regards to my faith but all faiths...

Kindly cite evidence to support this contention " verbatim quotes.

What you just did is to claim superior understanding of Christianity for those who practice the faith. That IS a claim of superiority and it is a claim that cannot be supported by reasoning or evidence. It is another example of a false claim of superiority based strictly upon religion.

Those not in Spirit cannot understand the things of the Spirit. Those who still require milk cannot understand what the Spirit is teaching those who are meat eaters. Again you lack knowledge of Christianity and it's teachings...

I do not claim great knowledge of Christianity and its teachings. However, I have been exposed to its literature and dogma.

Would you care to attempt to demonstrate that your knowledge of Christianity is superior to mine in a Head to Head debate that is moderated closely to insure that claims are substantiated? Do you feel qualified to defend any of the Christian "miracle" tales? How about the "resurrection" " can you defend that it actually occurred in the real world as a physical event?

Do you claim greater knowledge of Christianity than the Non-Theist members of this forum?

Perhaps you did not intend to openly claim superiority for Christians " but you did so, even if inadvertently. Those little slips give away deeply held (or even unconscious) thoughts. Thank you for the demonstration.

On the contrary thank you for proving me right and that it is you the atheist who make false claims due to lack of understanding...

Error #1 " Zzyzx is NOT an Atheist (perusal of usergroups left of post indicates Agnostic, Ignostic, Non-Theist " but NOT Atheist). Each of us is entitled to identify our own preferences and convictions.

Error #2 " Erroneous reference to "false claims due to lack of understanding". Kindly quote verbatim such "false claims".

Are you not aware that Non-Christian members of this forum include at least two former Christian ministers and at least one former professor of comparative religion? Are you not aware that many members are Ex-Christians " some of whom were devout believers?

Are you not aware that the bible teaches..

What the bible teaches is NOT evidence in a debate with someone who does not accept the bible as truth. This is not a preaching venue but a DEBATE forum involving people who disdain the bible and Christian dogma.

I make the claim based in the truth of Christianity and the fact I am taught by God.

Nice sidestep. Again " you have claimed that those people "lack understanding of Christianity". I challenge you to demonstrate that you KNOW that about another person.

Your evasive answer is an indication that you DO NOT know " without saying so.

The "truth of Christianity" has nothing to do with whether members here "lack understanding" of Christianity (particularly ex-ministers, former devout believers, and a professor of comparative religion).

Not one which the Father teaches, draws and sends is lost...
Self-examination is really important to see if we are living in truth and walking in the Spirit. I believe the Lord God tells us the truth...

I do not accept that any "god" tells humans anything at all. There is NO evidence to support that contention (other than religious promotional literature and personal opinions).

Who is telling the truth?

That is what we attempt to determine when we ask for evidence. Those who quote "holy" promotional literature have no claim to truth.

[Vanguard]

This is a cop-out. Christians are not able to accept that a person can study Christianity and reject it. They are not also able to comprehend that a person, after being a Christian for many years, can eventually reject it. To those Christians, it's never the fact that said atheist or agnostic done the research, it's only because they were not able to understand, or tricked by the devil. This is dishonest and does, in fact, exhibit a sense of superiority.

I agree. For me, it's not so much whether said individual rejects the gospel or claims not feeling the spirit or whatever the case may be. I don't want any part of discussing it with others. It does smack of a faux-superiority that I want no part of. If indeed there is any redemptive power in the Christian spirit (which I believe there is) it won't ride in on the back of public recrimination, ridicule, scorn, or condenscending narrow-mindedness. The power of the spirit resides in quiet, unassuming action and not much else.

[Zzyzx]

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Zzyzx has donated 500 tokens to Vanguard with the following comments:

I respect and appreciate the reasoned position you present. May others learn from your example. Thank you. .

I agree. For me, it's not so much whether said individual rejects the gospel or claims not feeling the spirit or whatever the case may be. I don't want any part of discussing it with others. It does smack of a faux-superiority that I want no part of. If indeed there is any redemptive power in the Christian spirit (which I believe there is) it won't ride in on the back of public recrimination, ridicule, scorn, or condenscending narrow-mindedness. The power of the spirit resides in quiet, unassuming action and not much else.