Does the Christian God love everyone?

[OnceConvinced]

I thought I'd heard it all, but in my debate with Drs I learnt that there are in fact some Christians who don't believe that God loves everyone. And even doing a google search I saw that there are others who believe the same. God doesn't love every one. Only those who love and follow him. Seems kind of strange to only love those who love you, but there you go.

According to Drs (and I hope I have understood him), those who God loves are chosen from the beginning of time. They are the elect. Only those does God love, all others he does not.

Also according to Drs, in John 3:16 when it says God so loved the world, the word "world" is not literally the world, but only those who God has chosen. I guess when you see obvious contradictions like this and the verses to follow, you are forced to change meanings of words to make it all add up.

Here are some scriptures that seem to back up that God does not love the whole world and in fact that he hates sinners (not just the sin):

John 14
19 “A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.�
22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?�
23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. 24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.

Leviticus 20:23
And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.

Psalm 5:5
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Psalm 11:5
The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Proverbs 6:16, 19
These six things doth the LORD hate ... A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Hosea 9:15
I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings.

Malachi 1:3
And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Romans 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

OK. So these clearly state that God does hate. One would also have a hard time arguing that God loves those who he is going to make suffer for all eternity. Really that sort of sadism shows hate rather than love.

.................................
So my questions:

Does God love everybody in the entire world, evil sinners included? Please justify your answer.

If God does not love everyone, then is it not true to say that as well as being a God of love, he is also a God of hate? If not why not?

And if less than 30% of the world's population are loved by God and the rest hated for their sin, does that not make him more a God of hate than a God of love? If not why not?

[Nilloc James]

Does God love everybody in the entire world, evil sinners included? Please justify your answer.

No. Read the bible and the punishments it droles out.

If God does not love everyone, then is it not true to say that as well as being a God of love, he is also a God of hate? If not why not?

He is a god with a multiple personality disorder so this does not suprise me.

And if less than 30% of the world's population are loved by God and the rest hated for their sin, does that not make him more a God of hate than a God of love? If not why not?

Yup he just loves his smiting and eternal hell fire that much.

[Amos]

I thought I'd heard it all, but in my debate with Drs I learnt that there are in fact some Christians who don't believe that God loves everyone. And even doing a google search I saw that there are others who believe the same. God doesn't love every one. Only those who love and follow him. Seems kind of strange to only love those who love you, but there you go.

According to Drs (and I hope I have understood him), those who God loves are chosen from the beginning of time. They are the elect. Only those does God love, all others he does not.

Also according to Drs, in John 3:16 when it says God so loved the world, the word "world" is not literally the world, but only those who God has chosen. I guess when you see obvious contradictions like this and the verses to follow, you are forced to change meanings of words to make it all add up.

Here are some scriptures that seem to back up that God does not love the whole world and in fact that he hates sinners (not just the sin):

John 14
19 “A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.�
22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?�
23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. 24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.

Leviticus 20:23
And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.

Psalm 5:5
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Psalm 11:5
The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Proverbs 6:16, 19
These six things doth the LORD hate ... A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Hosea 9:15
I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings.

Malachi 1:3
And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Romans 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

OK. So these clearly state that God does hate. One would also have a hard time arguing that God loves those who he is going to make suffer for all eternity. Really that sort of sadism shows hate rather than love.

.................................
So my questions:

Does God love everybody in the entire world, evil sinners included? Please justify your answer.

If God does not love everyone, then is it not true to say that as well as being a God of love, he is also a God of hate? If not why not?

And if less than 30% of the world's population are loved by God and the rest hated for their sin, does that not make him more a God of hate than a God of love? If not why not?

Does God love the whole world, even evil sinners? Yes.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,

Romans 5:6-8 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Matthew 11:28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!� And let him who hears say, “Come!� And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

God desires that everybody be saved. He has extended His grace to everybody, but not everybody will be willing to receive it, and those unwilling will be punished.

Ezekiel 18:30-32 “Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways,� says the Lord GOD. “Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin. 31 Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,� says the Lord GOD. “Therefore turn and live!�

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Acts 17:30-31 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.�

Romans 2:5-11 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds�: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.

Calvinists, can you not see what a monster you have made God to be? The atheists and agnostics certainly do.

[OnceConvinced]

Ah, ok, so it's the Calvanist perspective.

Amos how do you corroborate the verses I quoted, about God hating, with your viewpoint. His hate is quite clearly directed at people rather than sin.

[drs]

Ah, ok, so it's the Calvanist perspective.

Amos how do you corroborate the verses I quoted, about God hating, with your viewpoint. His hate is quite clearly directed at people rather than sin.

If GOD hated even one person past, present and future the statment GOD loves everyone in the entire world would be untrue.
Preserving (abiding,enduring,eternal) love is what we were debating




You have to remember there is more than one kind of love.


Eternal preserving love for those reborn in CHRIST
vs
Love your enemies, doing good to those hate you.



Now you could take this verse and say GOD loves everyone and it would be true.

GOD loves evil and unjust people by giving them sun and rain.


45 for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you?



Matthew 5

Love Your Enemies

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor[g] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,[h] 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors[j] do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

[Amos]

Ah, ok, so it's the Calvanist perspective.

Amos how do you corroborate the verses I quoted, about God hating, with your viewpoint. His hate is quite clearly directed at people rather than sin.

Every passage you have cited except Romans 9 has to do with those who are engaged in sin. God hates and cannot abide sin, and so those who do not put to death the deeds of the body are abhorrent to God.

But every one of those abhorrent people has the opportunity to turn and live, as quoted from Ezekiel before.

In Romans 9, Paul is explaining how God has the right to choose to bless man through the line of Jacob, even though Jacob was no better than Esau. God only hated Esau in the sense that He chose Jacob over him. Esau is the father of the nation of Edom, which was punished for not allowing Israel to pass through their land in Numbers 20. That is the reason for the punishment in Malachi 1:3.

[OnceConvinced]

Ah, ok, so it's the Calvanist perspective.

Amos how do you corroborate the verses I quoted, about God hating, with your viewpoint. His hate is quite clearly directed at people rather than sin.

If GOD hated even one person past, present and future the statment GOD loves everyone in the entire world would be untrue.
Preserving (abiding,enduring,eternal) love is what we were debating


You have to remember there is more than one kind of love.


Eternal preserving love for those reborn in CHRIST
vs
Love your enemies, doing good to those hate you.



Now you could take this verse and say GOD loves everyone and it would be true.

GOD loves evil and unjust people by giving them sun and rain.


45 for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you?



Matthew 5

Love Your Enemies

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor[g] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,[h] 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors[j] do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

So now you are claiming that God loves everyone? Just in different ways? Love is love. If God does love everyone, including his enemies than why are we debating in the "head to head" forum based on the doctrine that God does not love everyone?

There is no reason to believe there are two different types of love. The love is either the same or one of them is not love.

[OnceConvinced]

Ah, ok, so it's the Calvanist perspective.

Amos how do you corroborate the verses I quoted, about God hating, with your viewpoint. His hate is quite clearly directed at people rather than sin.

Every passage you have cited except Romans 9 has to do with those who are engaged in sin. God hates and cannot abide sin, and so those who do not put to death the deeds of the body are abhorrent to God.

But every one of those abhorrent people has the opportunity to turn and live, as quoted from Ezekiel before.

In Romans 9, Paul is explaining how God has the right to choose to bless man through the line of Jacob, even though Jacob was no better than Esau. God only hated Esau in the sense that He chose Jacob over him. Esau is the father of the nation of Edom, which was punished for not allowing Israel to pass through their land in Numbers 20. That is the reason for the punishment in Malachi 1:3

Now hold on, the hate is not directed at the sin, though, is it? But the person as I have pointed out. The evil is the reason God hates them, that's all. The same applies in human terms. If we hate someone it's because of something they did or do. But the hate is still directed at the person. How is it possible to hate someone unless you have a reason? It's not something that we just turn on the first time we meet someone.

.[/quote]

[LOPEZ]

I thought I'd heard it all, but in my debate with Drs I learnt that there are in fact some Christians who don't believe that God loves everyone. And even doing a google search I saw that there are others who believe the same. God doesn't love every one. Only those who love and follow him. Seems kind of strange to only love those who love you, but there you go.

According to Drs (and I hope I have understood him), those who God loves are chosen from the beginning of time. They are the elect. Only those does God love, all others he does not.

Also according to Drs, in John 3:16 when it says God so loved the world, the word "world" is not literally the world, but only those who God has chosen. I guess when you see obvious contradictions like this and the verses to follow, you are forced to change meanings of words to make it all add up.

Here are some scriptures that seem to back up that God does not love the whole world and in fact that he hates sinners (not just the sin):

John 14
19 “A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.�
22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?�
23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. 24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.

Leviticus 20:23
And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.

Psalm 5:5
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Psalm 11:5
The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Proverbs 6:16, 19
These six things doth the LORD hate ... A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Hosea 9:15
I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings.

Malachi 1:3
And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Romans 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

OK. So these clearly state that God does hate. One would also have a hard time arguing that God loves those who he is going to make suffer for all eternity. Really that sort of sadism shows hate rather than love.

.................................
So my questions:

Does God love everybody in the entire world, evil sinners included? Please justify your answer.

If God does not love everyone, then is it not true to say that as well as being a God of love, he is also a God of hate? If not why not?

And if less than 30% of the world's population are loved by God and the rest hated for their sin, does that not make him more a God of hate than a God of love? If not why not?

God most certainly does love everyone, sinners included. If He is all loving, it must follow. We can indicate this from the given Scripture:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16)

However, this love is not conditional, it is simply based off of the fact that God is a Being of love. "Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love." (1 John 4:8)