Women, is this overtly chauvinistic

[Greatest I Am]

Women, is this overtly chauvinistic?

1 Timothy

2:11 Let the woman learn in silence, with all subjection.
2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.
2:13 For Adam was first formed; then Eve.
2:14 And Adam was not seduced; but the woman being seduced, was in the transgression.
2:15 Yet she shall be saved through childbearing; if she continue in faith, and love, and sanctification, with sobriety.

I believe in equality of the sexes. I believe that all souls and natures are created perfect and of the same value to God.

Is it right then for religions to place women at the back of the bus while men take the beat seats?

How do you feel about being consigned to being followers and never leaders, forever?
If you happen to be a Gay female, how do you feel about having to hang from the rear bumper of the same bus?

Regards
DL

[McCulloch]

To me, this is one of the reasons I'm an atheist. I notice that God just never seems to have enough money, or enough material to do His doings. Why does a church need electricity? Couldn't God just make the lights work, and have the power bill used to help other folks?

This is off topic, but part of an interesting and long debate.

Christian churches tried to ward off the damaging effects of storms and lightning by saying prayers, consecrating church bells, sprinkling holy water and burning witches. Lengthy rites were said for the consecration of bells, and priests prayed that their sound might "temper the destruction of hail and cyclones and the force of tempests and lightning; check hostile thunders and great winds; and cast down the spirits of storms and the powers of the air."

Unfortunately, these efforts were to no avail. The priest ought to have prayed for the bell ringer, who was frequently electrocuted while ringing the blessed bells. The church tower, usually the highest structure in the village or town, was the building most often hit, while the brothels and gambling houses next door were left untouched.

Science triumphs over faith in the matter of protecting church assets from acts of God.

Allie, you raised a point about fulfilled prophesy. As an exercise, I would recommend that you carefully look at the prophesies cited in context. Ask yourself a few hard questions:

1. Is it the clear intent of the writer of the prophesy to be predicting the coming messiah?
2. Did Christ, as recorded by the NT writers completely and fully fit the prophesies?
3. Could it be that the writers of the NT, writing decades after the events of Jesus life, who were raised reading and re-reading prophetic literature, who wrote with the express purpose of demonstrating that Jesus was the messiah, inserted events into their narrative in order to show that Jesus was the one foretold?

[Allie]

Well, I'm back. I'm really sorry I dropped off the face of the earth for a while.

But half of this conversation seems to be going in circles, and I really have a lot of homework. Zz and others, do you all think you could pick some of your favorite topics (maybe just 4 or 5) so we can talk about those? This conversation has gotten so broad that it takes me hours to reply to one post. Do you think you could have mercy on me and pick out a few points you'd like to discuss most of all?

That would be wonderful.

[Zzyzx]

.

Well, I'm back. I'm really sorry I dropped off the face of the earth for a while.

Welcome back Allie. You are entitled to take a vacation from this whenever you wish " and stay gone as long as you wish.

But half of this conversation seems to be going in circles, and I really have a lot of homework. Zz and others, do you all think you could pick some of your favorite topics (maybe just 4 or 5) so we can talk about those?

Better yet, Allie, YOU pick a topic and start a thread. When you are satisfied with the discussion or tired of it, start another.

This conversation has gotten so broad that it takes me hours to reply to one post.

If you are interested, I'll share with you some of my "tricks" for constructing replies efficiently.

[Goat]

Well, I'm back. I'm really sorry I dropped off the face of the earth for a while.

But half of this conversation seems to be going in circles, and I really have a lot of homework. Zz and others, do you all think you could pick some of your favorite topics (maybe just 4 or 5) so we can talk about those? This conversation has gotten so broad that it takes me hours to reply to one post. Do you think you could have mercy on me and pick out a few points you'd like to discuss most of all?

That would be wonderful.

Welcome back. I think you can talk about your favorite topics.. You better keep your homework up , that's more important than here! (mock growl), but being able to keep up with the debate here has the potential of teaching you some good research and critical thinking skills.

[Flail]

The Bible can mean whatever you want it to mean....since it is not based upon fact or proofs,you can have it any way you want it....you can read between the lines and invent whatever God you choose....add a few mindless rituals and some cultural dogma and ...you've got yourself a tax exempt religion to be selfishly righteous about....a place to go to be seen....look at you!!!...and so later you can sleep.


.....all of which proves that anything can be the cause of anything and that as humans,whatever we don't understand...we can make mean anything...and we do.

[Allie]

Better yet, Allie, YOU pick a topic and start a thread. When you are satisfied with the discussion or tired of it, start another.

Ho-hum. I have a problem with not knowing what to debate. I'm not very good at debating a lot of things.

If you are interested, I'll share with you some of my "tricks" for constructing replies efficiently.

I am very interested. Although, it might be a combination of my personality type as well as my inexperience. I'm very slow and thoughtful by nature. I try to think hard about everything I say before I say it, which makes me exceptionally sluggish.

[Allie]

Welcome back. I think you can talk about your favorite topics.. You better keep your homework up , that's more important than here! (mock growl), but being able to keep up with the debate here has the potential of teaching you some good research and critical thinking skills.

Why thank you.