Lap Dancing Clubs

[Furrowed Brow]

Ok just had a night out on the town.

Questions:

Is it immoral to be a dancer in lap dancing club?
Is it immoral tol be a waitress or waiter or doorman for a lap dancing club?
Is it immoral to be a punter in a lap dancing club?

[Cathar1950]

Lee Strobel (a former atheist) does a full investigation into the validity of the Bible and the life of Jesus Christ as an atheist and has wrote numerous books an it for example: "the case for Christ" which puts the new testament on trial as if tried by a lawyer. He has found that besides the Bible being the best source book for truth, and archaeological fact, it has not been proven wrong with any valid claims anywhere in history. Standing on this evidence for the Bible i think it is also the best source for truth and if you took the prostitution in the bible in context you would find that God did not whatsoever condone it.

Ya know, I don't care about Lee Strobel's claim for 'being an atheist', and it is totally irrelevant to his arguments. His arguments are one sided, bad, illogical, and inaccurate, and frankly, he uses sources that lie. As for 'The Case for Christ', it is also very one sided, and one that fails under cross examination. It is a rehash of every bad piece of apologistics out there (and not even original). If you want to discuss individual pieces of evidence presented in a different thread, I am sure that there will be mulititudes of people who are willing to show where Lee Strobel just gets it wrong.

I think if you do a search on "Strobel" you will find an number of threads where his arguments are found wanting but it is still a great idea for a thread of its own.

But God doesn't condemn the acts either in the ancient stories.
Through trickery of an ancient woman the future ancestor of David would be born.
How does anyone know what God has in store for the child of some lap dancer?

[Megaboomer]

Page 3 Post 22:

there is actually immense amount of evidence supporting the bible as Gods word...

Care to offer some for analysis?

megaboomer #1. there is Sodom and Gomorrah, archeology has proven that that story happened just as it says in the Bible. except for the inconclusive time period. and also Lee Strobel states this fact in his research along with countless other archaeological finds that do nothing but support the bible. http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48931527.html

proven prophecy
#2 the very life of Jesus. the messianic prophecy about Jesus's life where told about 400 years before his birth including the crucifixion which was prophesied about 800 years before it was ever practiced.
#3 the nations how they would come, how they would be judged, and how they would effect the world. and other such prophecies at http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/b_proof.shtml
and also Lee Strobel makes evidence of these by asking well known scholars.

#4 also the fact that the chosen nation of Israel is the only nation to be scattered and then to come back together which is recorded to happen more than once and they kept their language intact.

these are just some of the many supports of the Bible's inspiration factor.

obviously people that do not take the time to research the bible themselves and miss the facts about proven prophecy in the bible and the proven works of Jesus.

I've yet to see any prophecy that wasn't so generic it couldn't apply to any of the many proposed gods.

Please offer some means to verify "the 'proven' works of Jesus".

megaboomer lol ok.. well #1 there is over a hundred fulfilled prophecies of Christ that most scholars agree that the chances of someone fullfilling of these ( that jesus did in full) would be 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000. which include. #1 His coming at a set time, #2 As the seed of David, #3 His being born in Bethlehem of Judea. #4 The slaying of the children of Bethlehem, 5#His being called out of Egypt, 6# His being preceded by John the Baptist.... and so on here might be a good site to check out
http://www.mb-soft.com/believe/txh/proph.htm

#2 as for the proven works of Jesus that's indisputable because nobody can discredit the author of Luke (Luke) as a historian of impeccable accuracy by secular and Christian scholars. and there are many sources that are not bias to Christianity that tell the truth in history about Jesus and His miracles. if you want names i can give them also.

all that i am saying is that there is a moral law that is given and that going to strip clubs is immoral any non- christian with morals and intellegence would agree.

I object to your questioning my intelligence because I disagree.

Does your religious training require you insult all those with whom you disagree?

Show me some means to verify you know the mind of God.

megaboomer well that's a whole another discussion in itself because you would have to have a basis on some word of God yourself in order to judge my words.
ps....................sorry i'm kinda new at these threads and i'm not sure how to write in between quotes.

[Megaboomer]

From Page 3 Post 27:

yes, because it is degrading to women.

Says you.

say's a majority of the women in the world

how would you like it if you had a daughter and she said she wanted to be a stripper when she grew up.

I'd deal with it. Once an adult she is her own person.

obliviously there is exceptional answers by people who don't have daughters or don't care about their future.

there are some family's that will condone other family members to do pornography or stripping or prostitution but they are very few and far between.

One family's take doesn't show a god has an opinion on the matter.

no but where do you think they learned morality from..... where did it originate from in the first place?

what you must ask yourself is.... "why doesn't everybody walk around naked".

Because too many uptight Christians would have a conniption.

so what is your definition of decency?

and my answer is that there is a unspoke law of morality that says it's indecent exposure.

Many places have codified this into a written law. Doesn't mean a god can be shown to have an opinion on the matter.

well there is a written law on ethics but it's not just to appease the Christians lol. this view is ridiculous.

i believe that a womens body is a sacred thing that should only be unveiled for marriage.

Would you buy a car without riding it first?

would you want a car more if it had as much experience as possible lol.

this is a whole another argument but studies have shown it's better for people who have less partners because of transmitted diseases. so why is it that that is?. besides, what works is not always ethical.

[Megaboomer]

Lee Strobel (a former atheist) does a full investigation into the validity of the Bible and the life of Jesus Christ as an atheist and has wrote numerous books an it for example: "the case for Christ" which puts the new testament on trial as if tried by a lawyer. He has found that besides the Bible being the best source book for truth, and archaeological fact, it has not been proven wrong with any valid claims anywhere in history. Standing on this evidence for the Bible i think it is also the best source for truth and if you took the prostitution in the bible in context you would find that God did not whatsoever condone it.

Ya know, I don't care about Lee Strobel's claim for 'being an atheist', and it is totally irrelevant to his arguments. His arguments are one sided, bad, illogical, and inaccurate, and frankly, he uses sources that lie. As for 'The Case for Christ', it is also very one sided, and one that fails under cross examination. It is a rehash of every bad piece of apologistics out there (and not even original). If you want to discuss individual pieces of evidence presented in a different thread, I am sure that there will be mulititudes of people who are willing to show where Lee Strobel just gets it wrong.

lol we'll let other people decide who's bias because your totally wrong on all accounts.

also you spelled apologetics wrong.... not doggin on your spelling at all, just thought it was kinda funny.... i mess up sometimes too

[Megaboomer]

Lee Strobel (a former atheist) does a full investigation into the validity of the Bible and the life of Jesus Christ as an atheist and has wrote numerous books an it for example: "the case for Christ" which puts the new testament on trial as if tried by a lawyer. He has found that besides the Bible being the best source book for truth, and archaeological fact, it has not been proven wrong with any valid claims anywhere in history. Standing on this evidence for the Bible i think it is also the best source for truth and if you took the prostitution in the bible in context you would find that God did not whatsoever condone it.

Ya know, I don't care about Lee Strobel's claim for 'being an atheist', and it is totally irrelevant to his arguments. His arguments are one sided, bad, illogical, and inaccurate, and frankly, he uses sources that lie. As for 'The Case for Christ', it is also very one sided, and one that fails under cross examination. It is a rehash of every bad piece of apologistics out there (and not even original). If you want to discuss individual pieces of evidence presented in a different thread, I am sure that there will be mulititudes of people who are willing to show where Lee Strobel just gets it wrong.

I think if you do a search on "Strobel" you will find an number of threads where his arguments are found wanting but it is still a great idea for a thread of its own.

But God doesn't condemn the acts either in the ancient stories.
Through trickery of an ancient woman the future ancestor of David would be born.
How does anyone know what God has in store for the child of some lap dancer?

God does not condemn those who are willing to repent.

Proverbs 12:2 A good [man] obtains favor from the LORD, But a man of wicked intentions He will condemn.

besides the ten commandments where written before this act. " thall shall not commit adultery" that should tell you what the God of the Bible dissaproves of.

[Jrosemary]

Proverbs 5:3-5: For the lips of an immoral women drip honey and her mouth is smoother than oil; but in the end she is bitter as wormwood, sharp as a two edged sword her feet go down to death her steps lay hold of hell.

First off, this is an inaccurate translation of this passage, which references Sheol, where all the dead alike go, rather than hell. There's no real concept of 'hell' in the Tanakh--that is, what Christians call the Old Testament. (And to this day, Judaism doesn't have the Christian notion of 'hell.')

Secondly, while the Tanakh frowns on prostitution and warns against it, it stops shy of forbidding it. And some important women in the Tanakh have been associated with the trade: the heroine Rahab, for example, seems to have been a prostitute (although some rabbinic traditions insist she was an innkeeper instead. . . but the text implies prostitute.)

(I'm not suggesting the Book of Joshua is literal history, by the way. Just making a point about its story.)

I'm not suggesting that giving lap dances is the same as prostitution--but if prostitution isn't outright forbidden, I see no reason that lapdancing would be.

Now, in my view, this is just an aside. I have no wish to live in a theocracy, and I firmly believe that we must leave consenting adults free to make their own sexual decisions. That said, I don't think we can use this passage of Proverbs as a blanket condemnation of prostitution.

[Goat]

Page 3 Post 22:

there is actually immense amount of evidence supporting the bible as Gods word...

Care to offer some for analysis?

megaboomer #1. there is Sodom and Gomorrah, archeology has proven that that story happened just as it says in the Bible. except for the inconclusive time period. and also Lee Strobel states this fact in his research along with countless other archaeological finds that do nothing but support the bible. http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48931527.html

Uh. No. Aish (a highly religious conservative Jewish web site) is taking a tiny bit of evidence and blowing it out of proportion (in other words, no , the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah have not been found). In addition, even if those said cities were found, it 'proves' the mystical claims in the bible as much as finding London proves the existence of Harry Potter and Hogswart, or finding Troy from the descriptions of the Oddesey proves Hercules and Zeus.

proven prophecy
#2 the very life of Jesus. the messianic prophecy about Jesus's life where told about 400 years before his birth including the crucifixion which was prophesied about 800 years before it was ever practiced.

Reapplying words that in ways that it was never meant, changing symbolism around, and shoe horning phrases into place are not 'proven prophecy'.

#3 the nations how they would come, how they would be judged, and how they would effect the world. and other such prophecies at http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/b_proof.shtml
and also Lee Strobel makes evidence of these by asking well known scholars.

Reapplying words that in ways that it was never meant, changing symbolism around, and shoe horning phrases into place are not 'proven prophecy'.

Lee Strobel took selective people who were giving the answers he wanted to put his book, and often ignored the bulk of biblical scholarship and consences to make a point to sell books. It is a money maker, but to pretend it is scholarship is dishonest.

#4 also the fact that the chosen nation of Israel is the only nation to be scattered and then to come back together which is recorded to happen more than once and they kept their language intact.

these are just some of the many supports of the Bible's inspiration factor.

So, a secular nation took it's name from historical sources. That is not showing that the nation is 'Chosen', only that ancient stories inspired people.

obviously people that do not take the time to research the bible themselves and miss the facts about proven prophecy in the bible and the proven works of Jesus.

I've yet to see any prophecy that wasn't so generic it couldn't apply to any of the many proposed gods.

Please offer some means to verify "the 'proven' works of Jesus".

megaboomer lol ok.. well #1 there is over a hundred fulfilled prophecies of Christ that most scholars agree that the chances of someone fullfilling of these ( that jesus did in full) would be 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000. which include. #1 His coming at a set time, #2 As the seed of David, #3 His being born in Bethlehem of Judea. #4 The slaying of the children of Bethlehem, 5#His being called out of Egypt, 6# His being preceded by John the Baptist.... and so on here might be a good site to check out
http://www.mb-soft.com/believe/txh/proph.htm

#2 as for the proven works of Jesus that's indisputable because nobody can discredit the author of Luke (Luke) as a historian of impeccable accuracy by secular and Christian scholars. and there are many sources that are not bias to Christianity that tell the truth in history about Jesus and His miracles. if you want names i can give them also.

all that i am saying is that there is a moral law that is given and that going to strip clubs is immoral any non- christian with morals and intellegence would agree.

I object to your questioning my intelligence because I disagree.

Does your religious training require you insult all those with whom you disagree?

Show me some means to verify you know the mind of God.

megaboomer well that's a whole another discussion in itself because you would have to have a basis on some word of God yourself in order to judge my words.
ps....................sorry i'm kinda new at these threads and i'm not sure how to write in between quotes.

I will tell you what.. those 'prophecies' have been gone over many times here, but if you want to bring up the same old stories and be shown that they are misinterpreted, mistranslated, quote mined and taken out of context, I am sure we would be MORE than happy to show that the 'prophecies' you refer to are no such thing.

[Jrosemary]

Uh. No. Aish (a highly religious conservative Jewish web site) is taking a tiny bit of evidence and blowing it out of proportion (in other words, no , the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah have not been found). In addition, even if those said cities were found, it 'proves' the mystical claims in the bible as much as finding London proves the existence of Harry Potter and Hogswart, or finding Troy from the descriptions of the Oddesey proves Hercules and Zeus.

Well said, Goat, but I just want to offer a clarification. Aish.com is a highly religious Orthodox Jewish site.

I wanted to make the distinction, because I don't want anyone confusing Conservative Judaism with religious conservatism. Conservative Judaism, in fact, tends to be on the liberal side of the religious spectrum.

At any event, I'm a Conservative Jew and, even though I'm far from fully observant, I consider myself religious. But I wouldn't blow tiny bits of evidence out of proportion in the name of proving anything about Sodom and Gomorrah. (Or for any other reason.)

That said, however much I generally disagree with the Orthodox, Aish.com sometimes has cool stuff. (I'm not Orthodox-phobic!)

[JoeyKnothead]

From Page 4 Post 32:

there is actually immense amount of evidence supporting the bible as Gods word...

Care to offer some for analysis?

#1. there is Sodom and Gomorrah, archeology has proven that that story happened just as it says in the Bible. except for the inconclusive time period. and also Lee Strobel states this fact in his research along with countless other archaeological finds that do nothing but support the bible. http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48931527.html

Since you are unwilling to quote your own source, I will not consider it my responsibility to wade through a site to seek what evidence you propose that site has. I will be glad to entertain what evidence you yourself are willing to present here from that site. I ask this because the page I went to was so long and I seek to ensure what you consider evidence is presented by you.

A quick glance on my part said nothing about evidence of fire and / or huge stones and boulders laying about, but that an ancient city was unearthed.

#2 the very life of Jesus. the messianic prophecy about Jesus's life where told about 400 years before his birth including the crucifixion which was prophesied about 800 years before it was ever practiced.

The Jews don't agree with your take on their prophecy.

Have you established these tales are true? If we don't know they're true, why bother trying to fit them into the Tanakh?

#3 the nations how they would come, how they would be judged, and how they would effect the world. and other such prophecies at http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/b_proof.shtml

I 'preciate the link, but I'd rather you present what you consider evidence. I can check it back to your source and to my sources, and our sources'll do lunch.

All I've ever known most of these prophecies to be are thin as a model with a tapeworm.

and also Lee Strobel makes evidence of these by asking well known scholars.

I don't know what evidence can be made by asking scholars.

Lee Patrick Strobel (born January 25, 1952 in Arlington Heights, Illinois) is a writer, Creationist

Hold up on that carwash gentlemen. A Creationist? He's got some 'splaining of his own to do.

He is the author of several books...
and a series which addresses challenges to a Biblically inerrant view of Christianity.

Biblically inerrant?

And you're pitching in with this dude? Really?

Strobel received a journalism degree from University of Missouri and a Master of Studies in Law degree from Yale Law School

Please explain how these are qualifications for determining the veracity of scientific concepts involved with biblical tales?

I've seen enough to know I wouldn't use this guy for support if I couldn't walk and I had a twelve pack I had to get home.

there is over a hundred fulfilled prophecies of Christ...
#1 His coming at a set time.
#2 As the seed of David.
#3 His being born in Bethlehem of Judea.
#4 The slaying of the children of Bethlehem.
5# His being called out of Egypt.
6# His being preceded by John the Baptist....

1 the Jews disagree, and they are the "prophecy holders".
2 I don't think you've established this is the case.
3 I'll give ya
4 Nothing like the slaying of children to say "I've arrived". I hear ya though.
5 Who hasn't been called away on business at one point in time?
6 Yeah, and I was named after George Washington.

Honestly, I don't think you can establish any of these as fact, but go on and give 'er a whirl.

#2 as for the proven works of Jesus that's indisputable because nobody can discredit the author of Luke (Luke) as a historian of impeccable accuracy by secular and Christian scholars.

Are we talking Strobel level scholars, or folks who might actually know something about the fields they speak of?

Luke gives the duration of John's preaching in terms of the reigns of various religious and secular authorities: In the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar–when Pontius Pilate was Procurator of Judea, Herod tetrarch of Galilee, his brother Philip tetrarch of Iturea and Traconitis, and Lysanias tetrarch of Abilene– during the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas... (Luke 3:1-2)

However, there are problems reconciling these dates to the same year[21].

Tiberius ruled 14 - 37
Pilate was Prefect 26 - 36
Herod Antipas was Tetrarch 4 BC - 39
Philip was Tetrarch approx 4 BC to 34
Lysanias was executed in 36 BC
Annas was High Priest 6 - 15
Caiaphas: was High Priest 16 - 37

No debate?

and there are many sources that are not bias to Christianity that tell the truth in history about Jesus and His miracles.

Truth according to whom?

Present your evidence and your sources and we'll sort 'em out.

all that i am saying is that there is a moral law that is given and that going to strip clubs is immoral any non- christian with morals and intellegence would agree.

I object to your questioning my intelligence because I disagree.

Does your religious training require you insult all those with whom you disagree?

Show me some means to verify you know the mind of God.

well that's a whole another discussion in itself because you would have to have a basis on some word of God yourself in order to judge my words.
ps....................sorry i'm kinda new at these threads and i'm not sure how to write in between quotes.

So, you'd rather continue the insult than chalk it up to miscommunication?

Okay, if your God tells you to be rude I guess I gotta deal with it.

I had always thought God was a loving sort though.

All I was asking for was an apology for a slip of the tongue, or a miscommunication. If you're unwilling to reach my outstretched hand I will withdraw it to the safety of my person.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Page 4 Post 33:

yes, because it is degrading to women.

Says you.

say's a majority of the women in the world

This doesn't address the folks who don't think its wrong. Since the majority of women believe in the Bible or some other religious ideology it stands to reason most'll abide. The challenge is showing God thinks so.

how would you like it if you had a daughter and she said she wanted to be a stripper when she grew up.

I'd deal with it. Once an adult she is her own person.

obliviously there is exceptional answers by people who don't have daughters or don't care about their future.

First you insult my intelligence, now you're saying I don't care about a daughter's future.

Is this really necessary?

Please, either argue the case on its merits or just don't post.

One family's take doesn't show a god has an opinion on the matter.

no but where do you think they learned morality from..... where did it originate from in the first place?

I've only ever seen morality presented by humans or other animals. I have no evidence whatsoever showing a god gives two hoots about the carryings on of humans.

so what is your definition of decency?

I consider it a subjective term, open to personal whim. I consider it most decent that folks are allowed as much freedom of expression as possible.

Many places have codified this into a written law. Doesn't mean a god can be shown to have an opinion on the matter.

well there is a written law on ethics but it's not just to appease the Christians lol. this view is ridiculous.

Then why is Sunday the only day of the week I can't run up to the store for a coldbeer?

I agree it is ridiculous to have something illegal on that one particular day of the week Christians carry on so much about.

would you want a car more if it had as much experience as possible lol.

As with my lady friends, I want something built for comfort. My point is that whether you consider a woman's body sacred or not is on you. While I agree they are sacred (though not for reasons you might), I still consider their right to free expression their own, and not mine to muck with.

this is a whole another argument but studies have shown it's better for people who have less partners because of transmitted diseases. so why is it that that is?

Lack of adequate sex eduction, proper use of contraceptives, and that whole "sex is dirty" so many uptight folks exhibit, among many others.

besides, what works is not always ethical.

I just don't see how you've shown lap dances are unethical, except as your own opinion. That's fine, you're entitled to it, and let it guide you, however there are many folks that are going to disagree.