The Qu'ran

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McCulloch
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The Qu'ran

Post #1

Post by McCulloch »

CONVERTED TO ISLAM wrote:quraan is written by allah but other books written by person so you have to read it to make sure
mar wrote:Well i am sure the quran is much unique from among all the other books. [...] the quran has never been changed. The quran was and is as god says himself in the quran that the quran is copyrighted. So there are millions of copys in the world in many translation--but all the same thing. Ones in english, urdu, arabic, chinese, brail... and so on. So which one shall you read? The one that says Quran or koran or coran on the cover. And as the biggining chapter introduces the author (god). You can order many free ones from islam tomorow, or even better go to your local mosque.[...]

So I went to the quran. I read it and I felt closer to god in my whole life. I actually cryed. And now i am closer to god then ever.
I have been invited to read the Qu'ran. It has been claimed that it has the answers to the questions, How can I know if God exists? and How can I know what God wants of me? It has been implied that the divine truth of the Quran is self-evident.

For Debate: If you have read the Qu'ran or part of it, is its divine origin self-evident? Does it make a convincing argument for the existence of God?
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

TrueReligion
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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #151

Post by TrueReligion »

Apple Pie wrote:
TrueReligion wrote: --

ho nikao kleronomeo houtos kai esomai autos theos kai autos esomai moi huios

The one overcoming will inherit all things, and I will be God to him, and he will be the son to Me. (Rev 21.7) [/color]

1st of all, these are not verse of Jesus, Revelation fulll book was rejected by christian scholars, and after too much influence of Church at the end of 364 AD, it was included, but also still it was taking out of bible again n again, proof can be provided upon req.
Further Revelation is jusr dreams of John (not the John disiple, some unknown John). so anything here can't be taken as authentic, your this proof is wrong, try again please:)

75% of the Koran was copied directly from the Book of Revelation, brother...
As I told you, ur reasearch is very weak.

It is interesting to see what the Christian missionaries who read the Qur'n say about the book itself. St. Claire Tisdall states that:

From the careful examination of the whole subject dealt with in this chapter (i.e., The Influence Of Christianity & Christian Apocryphal Books) we therefore conclude that the influence of true and genuine Christian teaching upon the Qur'n and upon Islam in general has been very slight indeed, while on the other hand apocryphal traditions and in certain respects heretical doctrines have a claim to be considered as forming one of the original sources of Muhammadan faith. [7]

Regarding one of the apocryphal books he states:

The style of the Arabic of this apocryphal Gospel, (Gospel Of The Infancy) however, is so bad that it is hardly possible to believe that it dates from Muhammad's time. As, however, Arabic has never been supposed to be the language in which the work was composed, this is a matter of little or no consequence. From a study of the book there seems little room for doubt that it has been translated into Arabic from the Coptic, in which language it may have been composed. [8]

[7] Rev. W. St. Clair Tisdall, The Original Sources Of The Qur'n, 1905, Society For The Promotion Of Christian Knowledge, London, pp. 210-21.

[8] Rev. W. St. Clair Tisdall, Op.Cit, p.42.

For all non-muslims who claim that Quran is copiedd from bible, must read this.

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/ ... bible.html

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #152

Post by TrueReligion »

McCulloch wrote:
Apple Pie wrote:The koran was written in Arabic, brother, not English.

However, you don't know any Arabic.
It is dangerous to draw conclusions about a text written in a language that is not your own. Unless you were raised with Arabic as a child or you are an expert linguist, then you must rely on the conclusions of those who are. Theologically, those who know a little Arabic are more likely to be wrong than those who know none or those who are experts.
Rightly said McCulloch, Agree with you :)

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #153

Post by Apple Pie »

TrueReligion wrote:
Apple Pie wrote:
TrueReligion wrote: --

ho nikao kleronomeo houtos kai esomai autos theos kai autos esomai moi huios

The one overcoming will inherit all things, and I will be God to him, and he will be the son to Me. (Rev 21.7) [/color]

1st of all, these are not verse of Jesus, Revelation fulll book was rejected by christian scholars, and after too much influence of Church at the end of 364 AD, it was included, but also still it was taking out of bible again n again, proof can be provided upon req.
Further Revelation is jusr dreams of John (not the John disiple, some unknown John). so anything here can't be taken as authentic, your this proof is wrong, try again please:)

75% of the Koran was copied directly from the Book of Revelation, brother...
As I told you, ur reasearch is very weak.

It is interesting to see what the Christian missionaries who read the Qur'n say about the book itself. St. Claire Tisdall states that:

From the careful examination of the whole subject dealt with in this chapter (i.e., The Influence Of Christianity & Christian Apocryphal Books) we therefore conclude that the influence of true and genuine Christian teaching upon the Qur'n and upon Islam in general has been very slight indeed, while on the other hand apocryphal traditions and in certain respects heretical doctrines have a claim to be considered as forming one of the original sources of Muhammadan faith. [7]

Regarding one of the apocryphal books he states:

The style of the Arabic of this apocryphal Gospel, (Gospel Of The Infancy) however, is so bad that it is hardly possible to believe that it dates from Muhammad's time. As, however, Arabic has never been supposed to be the language in which the work was composed, this is a matter of little or no consequence. From a study of the book there seems little room for doubt that it has been translated into Arabic from the Coptic, in which language it may have been composed. [8]

[7] Rev. W. St. Clair Tisdall, The Original Sources Of The Qur'n, 1905, Society For The Promotion Of Christian Knowledge, London, pp. 210-21.

[8] Rev. W. St. Clair Tisdall, Op.Cit, p.42.

For all non-muslims who claim that Quran is copiedd from bible, must read this.

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/ ... bible.html

You have been show where Jesus claims to be God in the Greek.

None of your googled webpaste can change this fact, brother...

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #154

Post by Apple Pie »

TrueReligion wrote: What does it mean that "Wala Taqolu Talata'?

For followers of Islam to understand the concept of the Biblical Trinity, this can only be accomplished through the teachings found in their very own book of faith.

Since the goal of islam is to instruct Muslims that the Holy Bible is corrupt " no Biblical verse, or analogy will mean anything at all to them.

They will simply reject it.

Period.

All Muslims revere and trust their Koran. Thus, whatever is stated therein is the way that it must be.

To get through to them, you will need to use Koranic verses which demonstrate the concept of the Biblical Trinity.

One such Koranic ayah (which, ironically Muslims are trained to use all the time for their position) actually plainly states that the Trinity is not three, but instead, it is one, and then proceeds to list out Father, Son, and Spirit









Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoona lahu waladun lahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee al-ardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan

4.171 You The Book's family, certainly do not go beyond the limits in your faith, and they do not say on allah except The Truth (is) only the Messiah Jesus, Mary's son, allahs messenger, and his Word, cast forth to her, Mary, and Spirit from him; so believe on account of allah, and His messengers, and they do not say: "Three." Refrain (it is) agreeable certainly your only allah one god glory be to him, that He has certainly been his Son, truly His what is in the heavens and what is in the earth and He sufficed on account of allah, a witness.



Observe that this ayah is directed at The Books family (ahla alkitabi) " which refers to the followers of the Holy Bible; i.e. Christians.

For the Muslim, it then gives instruction as to what the correct interpretation of the Holy Bible needs to be regarding (among numerous things), the concept of the Trinity.


In this classic Islamic one-hit-wonder we are told not to refer to the one allah as Three, as even his messengers do not say Three - because he is not the result of counted things (thalathatun).and yet, in the very ayah itself it lists-out directly, Father, Son, & Spirit.

This is a classic Koranic example in which the authors display their understanding of the Biblical concept of the Holy Trinity, and give the example of what it is not by the usage of the word Threeand what it is, by the example of one.

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #155

Post by TrueReligion »

Apple Pie wrote:
TrueReligion wrote:
Apple Pie wrote:
TrueReligion wrote: --

ho nikao kleronomeo houtos kai esomai autos theos kai autos esomai moi huios

The one overcoming will inherit all things, and I will be God to him, and he will be the son to Me. (Rev 21.7) [/color]

1st of all, these are not verse of Jesus, Revelation fulll book was rejected by christian scholars, and after too much influence of Church at the end of 364 AD, it was included, but also still it was taking out of bible again n again, proof can be provided upon req.
Further Revelation is jusr dreams of John (not the John disiple, some unknown John). so anything here can't be taken as authentic, your this proof is wrong, try again please:)

75% of the Koran was copied directly from the Book of Revelation, brother...
As I told you, ur reasearch is very weak.

It is interesting to see what the Christian missionaries who read the Qur'n say about the book itself. St. Claire Tisdall states that:

From the careful examination of the whole subject dealt with in this chapter (i.e., The Influence Of Christianity & Christian Apocryphal Books) we therefore conclude that the influence of true and genuine Christian teaching upon the Qur'n and upon Islam in general has been very slight indeed, while on the other hand apocryphal traditions and in certain respects heretical doctrines have a claim to be considered as forming one of the original sources of Muhammadan faith. [7]

Regarding one of the apocryphal books he states:

The style of the Arabic of this apocryphal Gospel, (Gospel Of The Infancy) however, is so bad that it is hardly possible to believe that it dates from Muhammad's time. As, however, Arabic has never been supposed to be the language in which the work was composed, this is a matter of little or no consequence. From a study of the book there seems little room for doubt that it has been translated into Arabic from the Coptic, in which language it may have been composed. [8]

[7] Rev. W. St. Clair Tisdall, The Original Sources Of The Qur'n, 1905, Society For The Promotion Of Christian Knowledge, London, pp. 210-21.

[8] Rev. W. St. Clair Tisdall, Op.Cit, p.42.

For all non-muslims who claim that Quran is copiedd from bible, must read this.

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/ ... bible.html

You have been show where Jesus claims to be God in the Greek.

None of your googled webpaste can change this fact, brother...
I'am sorry? where we are talking about Jesus? suppose to be we are talking about Quran, right? so please be on topic, dont run away on other one,
If you want me to show realy about Bible, make another thread, and invite me there. but here only discuss Quran please:)
Thanks

TrueReligion
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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #156

Post by TrueReligion »

Apple Pie wrote:
TrueReligion wrote: What does it mean that "Wala Taqolu Talata'?

For followers of Islam to understand the concept of the Biblical Trinity, this can only be accomplished through the teachings found in their very own book of faith.

Since the goal of islam is to instruct Muslims that the Holy Bible is corrupt " no Biblical verse, or analogy will mean anything at all to them.

They will simply reject it.

Period.

All Muslims revere and trust their Koran. Thus, whatever is stated therein is the way that it must be.

To get through to them, you will need to use Koranic verses which demonstrate the concept of the Biblical Trinity.

One such Koranic ayah (which, ironically Muslims are trained to use all the time for their position) actually plainly states that the Trinity is not three, but instead, it is one, and then proceeds to list out Father, Son, and Spirit









Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoona lahu waladun lahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee al-ardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan

4.171 You The Book's family, certainly do not go beyond the limits in your faith, and they do not say on allah except The Truth (is) only the Messiah Jesus, Mary's son, allahs messenger, and his Word, cast forth to her, Mary, and Spirit from him; so believe on account of allah, and His messengers, and they do not say: "Three." Refrain (it is) agreeable certainly your only allah one god glory be to him, that He has certainly been his Son, truly His what is in the heavens and what is in the earth and He sufficed on account of allah, a witness.



Observe that this ayah is directed at The Books family (ahla alkitabi) " which refers to the followers of the Holy Bible; i.e. Christians.

For the Muslim, it then gives instruction as to what the correct interpretation of the Holy Bible needs to be regarding (among numerous things), the concept of the Trinity.


In this classic Islamic one-hit-wonder we are told not to refer to the one allah as Three, as even his messengers do not say Three - because he is not the result of counted things (thalathatun).and yet, in the very ayah itself it lists-out directly, Father, Son, & Spirit.

This is a classic Koranic example in which the authors display their understanding of the Biblical concept of the Holy Trinity, and give the example of what it is not by the usage of the word Threeand what it is, by the example of one.
Again, you twist andd change the words:) its bit funy, if any other arabbic person, even non-muslim will read what you are refering:)
So no comments, as you provided false details,l whith is un-ethical and bad manners:) please avoid it

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #157

Post by McCulloch »

Apple Pie wrote:75% of the Koran was copied directly from the Book of Revelation.
Please cite your source, unless you have yourself directly compared these two writings and calculated this percentage.

Now given that the Book of Revelation, in English translation, is about 12,000 words and that the Qu'ran is over 75,000 words long, that 75% must include an awfully lot of repetition. So on the surface of things, it appears as if your calculation is false.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

Apple Pie
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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #158

Post by Apple Pie »

TrueReligion wrote: I'am sorry? where we are talking about Jesus? suppose to be we are talking about Quran, right? so please be on topic, dont run away on other one,
If you want me to show realy about Bible, make another thread, and invite me there. but here only discuss Quran please:)
Thanks
You should not have asked for Jesus' stating that He is God...if you don't want to see it, brother...

Apple Pie
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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #159

Post by Apple Pie »

TrueReligion wrote:
Apple Pie wrote:
TrueReligion wrote: What does it mean that "Wala Taqolu Talata'?

For followers of Islam to understand the concept of the Biblical Trinity, this can only be accomplished through the teachings found in their very own book of faith.

Since the goal of islam is to instruct Muslims that the Holy Bible is corrupt " no Biblical verse, or analogy will mean anything at all to them.

They will simply reject it.

Period.

All Muslims revere and trust their Koran. Thus, whatever is stated therein is the way that it must be.

To get through to them, you will need to use Koranic verses which demonstrate the concept of the Biblical Trinity.

One such Koranic ayah (which, ironically Muslims are trained to use all the time for their position) actually plainly states that the Trinity is not three, but instead, it is one, and then proceeds to list out Father, Son, and Spirit









Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoona lahu waladun lahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee al-ardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan

4.171 You The Book's family, certainly do not go beyond the limits in your faith, and they do not say on allah except The Truth (is) only the Messiah Jesus, Mary's son, allahs messenger, and his Word, cast forth to her, Mary, and Spirit from him; so believe on account of allah, and His messengers, and they do not say: "Three." Refrain (it is) agreeable certainly your only allah one god glory be to him, that He has certainly been his Son, truly His what is in the heavens and what is in the earth and He sufficed on account of allah, a witness.



Observe that this ayah is directed at The Books family (ahla alkitabi) " which refers to the followers of the Holy Bible; i.e. Christians.

For the Muslim, it then gives instruction as to what the correct interpretation of the Holy Bible needs to be regarding (among numerous things), the concept of the Trinity.


In this classic Islamic one-hit-wonder we are told not to refer to the one allah as Three, as even his messengers do not say Three - because he is not the result of counted things (thalathatun).and yet, in the very ayah itself it lists-out directly, Father, Son, & Spirit.

This is a classic Koranic example in which the authors display their understanding of the Biblical concept of the Holy Trinity, and give the example of what it is not by the usage of the word Threeand what it is, by the example of one.
Again, you twist andd change the words:) its bit funy, if any other arabbic person, even non-muslim will read what you are refering:)
So no comments, as you provided false details,l whith is un-ethical and bad manners:) please avoid it
We can go through each Arabic word if you like brother...

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #160

Post by Apple Pie »

McCulloch wrote:
Apple Pie wrote:75% of the Koran was copied directly from the Book of Revelation.
Please cite your source, unless you have yourself directly compared these two writings and calculated this percentage.

Now given that the Book of Revelation, in English translation, is about 12,000 words and that the Qu'ran is over 75,000 words long, that 75% must include an awfully lot of repetition. So on the surface of things, it appears as if your calculation is false.
If you doubt the figure, then feel free to select any portion of the Koran that you feel is completely free from any Jewish & Christian influence.

Good luck...

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