The Qu'ran

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McCulloch
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The Qu'ran

Post #1

Post by McCulloch »

CONVERTED TO ISLAM wrote:quraan is written by allah but other books written by person so you have to read it to make sure
mar wrote:Well i am sure the quran is much unique from among all the other books. [...] the quran has never been changed. The quran was and is as god says himself in the quran that the quran is copyrighted. So there are millions of copys in the world in many translation--but all the same thing. Ones in english, urdu, arabic, chinese, brail... and so on. So which one shall you read? The one that says Quran or koran or coran on the cover. And as the biggining chapter introduces the author (god). You can order many free ones from islam tomorow, or even better go to your local mosque.[...]

So I went to the quran. I read it and I felt closer to god in my whole life. I actually cryed. And now i am closer to god then ever.
I have been invited to read the Qu'ran. It has been claimed that it has the answers to the questions, How can I know if God exists? and How can I know what God wants of me? It has been implied that the divine truth of the Quran is self-evident.

For Debate: If you have read the Qu'ran or part of it, is its divine origin self-evident? Does it make a convincing argument for the existence of God?
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #171

Post by Apple Pie »

TrueReligion wrote: Still you are not providing the proof of your statement apple_pie, that when was the arabic version of bible introduced. in which year.
The authors of the Koran translated the Hebrew & Greek into Arabic, brother.

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #172

Post by TrueReligion »

Apple Pie wrote:
TrueReligion wrote:
Apple Pie wrote:
TrueReligion wrote: Is THREE ANDD TRINITY different things?
Yes.
What does "Tala'ata" means in arabic?
Three.
and wats the difference of trinity and three?

Youi are too much confused yourself apple-pie

"Trinity" is an epithet describing the God of the Holy Bible.

This term never existed in ancient Arabic.
Where is trinity word usedd in bible? in which verse?

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #173

Post by TrueReligion »

Apple Pie wrote:
TrueReligion wrote: Still you are not providing the proof of your statement apple_pie, that when was the arabic version of bible introduced. in which year.
The authors of the Koran translated the Hebrew & Greek into Arabic, brother.
You have to proovide your source dear, not statements, they will not be consider valid.
Also, Who were the authors of Quran?
How many churches were there in arabia at that time? in Mecca and in Medina to get these translation which you claim.

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #174

Post by Apple Pie »

TrueReligion wrote:
Apple Pie wrote:
TrueReligion wrote:
Apple Pie wrote:
TrueReligion wrote: Is THREE ANDD TRINITY different things?
Yes.
What does "Tala'ata" means in arabic?
Three.
and wats the difference of trinity and three?

Youi are too much confused yourself apple-pie

"Trinity" is an epithet describing the God of the Holy Bible.

This term never existed in ancient Arabic.
Where is trinity word usedd in bible? in which verse?
Its not in either the Holy Bible or the Koran, brother.

However, the concept is in both books.

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #175

Post by Apple Pie »

TrueReligion wrote: You have to proovide your source dear, not statements, they will not be consider valid.
Also, Who were the authors of Quran?
How many churches were there in arabia at that time? in Mecca and in Medina to get these translation which you claim.

We are told, even within the pages of the Koran itself, that the Koran (i.e. the collection) is a mere fabrication " which is an open admission that it is not the original.

Sura 10 is an excellent example of this.

The ayahs leading up to 10.37 are discussing alhaqqi (i.e. The Truth), of which we are told refers to only Jesus Christ (4.171).

This is fact.

Therefore, 10.37 is also a continuation of a discussion of Jesus Christ, as thus


وما كان هذا القرءان أن يفترى من دون الله ولكن تصديق الذي بين يديه وتفصيل الكتب لا ريب فيه من رب العلمين

Wama kana hatha alqur-anu an yuftara min dooni Allahi walakin tasdeeqa allathee bayna yadayhi watafseela alkitabi la rayba feehi min rabbi alAAalameena

10.37 And that this was the collection, that fabricated one, from superior (to) allah, and but (a) confirmation (of) Him in His presence, and explaining The Book, no doubt in it, from the lord of the jinn and of mankind.




The first thing that we observe in this ayah is that the Koran (i.e. alqur-anu i.e. the collection) is called a fabrication (yuftara).

Further, this ayah states that the collection is shown to be superior to allah, but still is a confirmation (tasdeeqa) of Him (allathee i.e. Jesus Christ) in His presence bayna yadayhi.

What this means is that while the Koran is admittedly a fabrication of the previous scriptures (i.e. it is not divine in any manner whatsoever), it still contains the Biblical message of Jesus Christ.

Further still, the collection is said to explain (tafseela) The Book (alkitabi i.e. The Holy Bible) " of which, the Holy Bible is stated to contain no doubt whatsoever in it (la rayba feehi).

Finally, this ayah concludes with the admission that the collection (i.e. the fabrication) is from allah lord of the jinn (demons).

Thus.this ayah does nothing to support the false Islamic claims that the Koran was divinely inspired.

It does, however, promote the divine origin of the Holy Bible, and 'The Truth' of Jesus Christ.

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #176

Post by TrueReligion »

Apple Pie wrote:
TrueReligion wrote:
Apple Pie wrote:
TrueReligion wrote:
Apple Pie wrote:
TrueReligion wrote: Is THREE ANDD TRINITY different things?
Yes.
What does "Tala'ata" means in arabic?
Three.
and wats the difference of trinity and three?

Youi are too much confused yourself apple-pie

"Trinity" is an describing the God of the Holy Bible.

This term never existed in ancient Arabic.
Where is trinity word usedd in bible? in which verse?
Its not in either the Holy Bible or the Koran, brother.

However, the concept is in both books.
So Quran is more precise, the word is used in Quran, but never in bible,
And the translation is posted is correct, you can use three, or call trinity, three is the word meaing of "Talata'a", and trinity is the ephitet meaning, which Quran is refering, that "Dont call trinity" this Quran is metioning to christians, that dont use this, its a false statement you christians are making.

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #177

Post by TrueReligion »

Apple Pie wrote:
TrueReligion wrote: You have to proovide your source dear, not statements, they will not be consider valid.
Also, Who were the authors of Quran?
How many churches were there in arabia at that time? in Mecca and in Medina to get these translation which you claim.

We are told, even within the pages of the Koran itself, that the Koran (i.e. the collection) is a mere fabrication " which is an open admission that it is not the original.


Sura 10 is an excellent example of this.

The ayahs leading up to 10.37 are discussing alhaqqi (i.e. The Truth), of which we are told refers to only Jesus Christ (4.171).

This is fact.

Therefore, 10.37 is also a continuation of a discussion of Jesus Christ, as thus




Wama kana hatha alqur-anu an yuftara min dooni Allahi walakin tasdeeqa allathee bayna yadayhi watafseela alkitabi la rayba feehi min rabbi alAAalameena

10.37 And that this was the collection, that fabricated one, from superior (to) allah, and but (a) confirmation (of) Him in His presence, and explaining The Book, no doubt in it, from the lord of the jinn and of mankind.




The first thing that we observe in this ayah is that the Koran (i.e. alqur-anu i.e. the collection) is called a fabrication (yuftara).

Further, this ayah states that the collection is shown to be superior to allah, but still is a confirmation (tasdeeqa) of Him (allathee i.e. Jesus Christ) in His presence bayna yadayhi.

What this means is that while the Koran is admittedly a fabrication of the previous scriptures (i.e. it is not divine in any manner whatsoever), it still contains the Biblical message of Jesus Christ.

Further still, the collection is said to explain (tafseela) The Book (alkitabi i.e. The Holy Bible) " of which, the Holy Bible is stated to contain no doubt whatsoever in it (la rayba feehi).

Finally, this ayah concludes with the admission that the collection (i.e. the fabrication) is from allah lord of the jinn (demons).

Thus.this ayah does nothing to support the false Islamic claims that the Koran was divinely inspired.

It does, however, promote the divine origin of the Holy Bible, and 'The Truth' of Jesus Christ.
Oh mine, better you laern arabic 1st, and told you until you get the translation from some reliable source, now no reply wil be given to you., as all your statements are false, and you are not providing the correct evidence asked from you.
The real meaning, which you deliberatly changed is this.

{37}
[Shakir 10:37] And this Quran is not such as could be forged by those besides Allah, but it is a verification of that which is before it and a clear explanation of the book, there is no doubt in it, from the Lord of the worlds.
[Yusufali 10:37] This Qur'an is not such as can be produced by other than Allah; on the contrary it is a confirmation of (revelations) that went before it, and a fuller explanation of the Book - wherein there is no doubt - from the Lord of the worlds.
[Pickthal 10:37] And this Qur'an is not such as could ever be invented in despite of Allah; but it is a confirmation of that which was before it and an exposition of that which is decreed for mankind - Therein is no doubt - from the Lord of the Worlds.


- {38}
[Shakir 10:38] Or do they say: He has forged it? Say: Then bring a chapter like this and invite whom you can besides Allah, if you are truthful.
[Yusufali 10:38] Or do they say, "He forged it"? say: "Bring then a Sura like unto it, and call (to your aid) anyone you can besides Allah, if it be ye speak the truth!"
[Pickthal 10:38] Or say they: He hath invented it? Say: Then bring a surah like unto it, and call (for help) on all ye can besides Allah, if ye are truthful.


Now this Quran is confirmation of what Allah revealed before it means that the previous scripture was distorted by christians, and Jews, that is why this revelation of Quran came, and it is made pure, and will remain unchanged till end of world.

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #178

Post by Apple Pie »

TrueReligion wrote: So Quran is more precise, the word is used in Quran, but never in bible,
And the translation is posted is correct, you can use three, or call trinity, three is the word meaing of "Talata'a", and trinity is the ephitet meaning, which Quran is refering, that "Dont call trinity" this Quran is metioning to christians, that dont use this, its a false statement you christians are making.
False brother.

Why don't you show us the classic Arabic lexical definition?

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #179

Post by TrueReligion »

Apple Pie wrote:
TrueReligion wrote: So Quran is more precise, the word is used in Quran, but never in bible,
And the translation is posted is correct, you can use three, or call trinity, three is the word meaing of "Talata'a", and trinity is the ephitet meaning, which Quran is refering, that "Dont call trinity" this Quran is metioning to christians, that dont use this, its a false statement you christians are making.
False brother.

Why don't you show us the classic Arabic lexical definition?
NNo, you are claiming false, and twisting the meaning, I showed you both the meanings, so there wont be any confusion, still you are bringing wrong facts, which is not acceptable.

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #180

Post by Apple Pie »

TrueReligion wrote:
Apple Pie wrote:
TrueReligion wrote: So Quran is more precise, the word is used in Quran, but never in bible,
And the translation is posted is correct, you can use three, or call trinity, three is the word meaing of "Talata'a", and trinity is the ephitet meaning, which Quran is refering, that "Dont call trinity" this Quran is metioning to christians, that dont use this, its a false statement you christians are making.
False brother.

Why don't you show us the classic Arabic lexical definition?
NNo, you are claiming false, and twisting the meaning, I showed you both the meanings, so there wont be any confusion, still you are bringing wrong facts, which is not acceptable.

does not mean trinity. It means Three.



Lets review the classic Arabic definition for further insight.



= thalathatun

thalathatun definition:

A noun of a number. Three. It is said that when it means the things numbered, not the amount of the number, it is imperfectly decl., being regarded as a proper name.

It comes from the root thalatha (tha-lam-tha), which means he took the third of the goods, or property, of the people, or company of men; to take a third part of a thing. He made twelve to be thirteen. A third, a third part or portion.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume one, pp. 347 - 349
The Dictionary of the Holy Quran, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, pp. 83 " 84
Concordance of the Koran, Gustav Flugel, p. 40



Occurrences of thalathatun in the Koran: 2
Locations: 4.171, 18.22



Per the classic definition; the things being numbered, are regarded as a proper name.

Well

What is being numbered in 4.171?

Lets look

It is clear from the text that Jesus is both Marys and (in this case) allahs son.

Same as copied from the Holy Bible.


Observe that Jesus (i.e innama ONLY the Messiah) is not merely allahs message(er); but he is also wa his Word.

Same as copied from the Holy Bible.


Furthermore, the allah of the Koran is shown to have a Spirit which is also imputed into Jesus.

Same as copied from the Holy Bible.


Thus.we have just witnessed three elements of allah.


Now...look what is stated next

refrain from saying: "Three."

Why should we not say that allah is three when we were just told of three elements that pertain to him.?

Heres why

Because

Allah (is) one Allah


What a novel idea.

Sound familiar.?

It should, as it is lifted right out of the Holy Bible and then re-applied to the pagan Arab god "allah".



Thusit is crystal clear (for the studious Muslim), that not only does this ayah (among other things) proclaim that Jesus is the Son " but it also is an admonishment to refrain from stating that allah is the result of a proper name that emanates from counted things!

Now we can understand that the authors who penned this ayah indeed understood the concept of the Biblical Trinity.

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