50,000 errors in Bible

[TrueReligion]

The Jehovah's Witnesses in their "AWAKE!" Magazine dated 8 September, 1957, carried this startling headline " "50000 ERRORS IN THE BIBLE?" (See below for the reproduction).

http://www.jamaat.net/bible/AwakeArticle(1957).html

What the christians have to say in this, is still remaining or they are removed? if removed? how many remaining now?

Then how come it becomes word of God?

[TrueReligion]

From Post 9:

So the last remaining is Quran, which is tilll now, not tempered and saved still, which is also proven by alll historians.
Therefore, to refer Bible as God's word, is also not correct.

That a book hasn't had its contents distorted says nothing about the accuracy of said book.

I challenge the assertion this book is "proven by all historians" (italics mine). Please document or retract this outrageous claim.

On what basis do you consider the Quran an accurate reflection of its proposed god?

I can post the source and commentries of historians about Quran, that is never been distorted.
Your other claim for reflection of God , or Quran is from God, you have to read it 1st, and thn put in under test for past, present model of society.
You have to find the predictions made by Quran, which came true as well.
Even if you could;nt unerstand, we will discuss thn.
Thank You

Non-muslim scientists remarks on Quran.

http://www.islamicmedicine.org/nonmuslim.htm

Despite such defective theories, many orientalists themselves have admitted like Gibb that It seems reasonably well established that no material changes were introduced and that the original form of Mohammeds discourses were preserved with scrupulous precision [36]. John Burton, at the end of his substantial work on the Qurans compilation, says with reference to criticisms made of different readings narrated in Ahadith that No major differences of doctrines can be constructed on the basis of the parallel readings based on the Uthmanic consonantal outline, yet ascribed to mushafs other than his. All the rival readings unquestionably represent one and the same text. They are substantially agreed in what they transmit [37]. He further states that the Qur'an as we have it today is the text which has come down to us in the form in which it was organized and approved by the Prophet. What we have today in our hands is the mushaf of Muhammad. [38]. Kenneth Cragg describes the transmission of the Qur'an from the time of revelation to today as occurring in an unbroken living sequence of devotion [39]. Schwally concurs that As far as the various pieces of revelation are concerned, we may be confident that their text has been generally transmitted exactly as it was found in the Prophet's legacy [40].

The historical credibility of the Qur'an is further established by the fact that one of the copies sent out by the Caliph Uthman is still in existence today. It lies in the Museum of the City of Tashkent in Uzbekistan, Central Asia [41]. A facsimile of the mushaf in Tashkent is available at the Columbia University Library in the USA [42]. This copy is proof that the text of the Quran we have in circulation today is identical with that of the time of the Prophet and his companions. A copy of the mushaf sent to Syria (duplicated before a fire in 1310AH/1892CE destroyed the Jaami' Masjid where it was housed) also exists in the Topkapi Museum in Istanbul [43], and an early manuscript on gazelle parchment exists in Dar al-Kutub as-Sultaniyyah in Egypt. More ancient manuscripts from all periods of Islamic history found in the Library of Congress in Washington, the Chester Beatty Museum in Dublin (Ireland) and the London Museum have been compared with those in Tashkent, Turkey and Egypt, with results confirming that there have not been any changes in the text from its original time of writing [44].

The Institute for Koranforschung, for example, in the University of Munich (Germany), collected over 42,000 complete or incomplete ancient copies of the Quran. After around fifty years of research, they reported that there was no variance between the various copies, except the occasional mistakes of the copyist which could easily be ascertained. This Institute was unfortunately destroyed by bombs during WWII [45].

[40] Schwally, Geschichte des Qorans, Leipzig: Dieterich'sche Verlagsbuchhandlung,1909-38, Vol.2, p.120

[41] Yusuf Ibrahim al-Nur, Ma' al-Masaahif, Dubai: Dar al-Manar, 1st ed., 1993, p.117; Isma'il Makhdum, Tarikh al-Mushaf al-Uthmani fi Tashqand, Tashkent: Al-Idara al-Diniya, 1971, p.22ff

[42] The Muslim World, 1940, Vol.30, p.357-358

[43] Yusuf Ibrahim al-Nur, Ma' al-Masaahif, Dubai: Dar al-Manar, 1st ed., 1993, p.113

[44] Bilal Philips, Usool at-Tafseer, Sharjah: Dar al-Fatah, 1997, p.157

Lists of people don't really do anything for me. What is the context of their remarks, and what did they actually say? What was the circumstances around their
remarks?? For example, I noticed the first one was someone who was being paid handsomely to make remarks.. that puts the bias in there for profit (rather than prophet).

There is difference between Normal People and Historians, and thats what make their comments authentic. e.g you beelieve Darwin propsed the theory, for me its aperson, I dont believe in him, but you believe, y?
You have to provide the source if amount and how much was paid by whom, when, etc etc:) otherwise its just a statement, nothing else, u know the rules well for debate

I will also note a list of a limited number of people where their comments are not even published, much less the context in which they made them reported is not
showing anything what so ever.

I can bring lots more people with their remarks, who have historical reputation, maybe peeople willl not take your remarks, as its a normal person, but their remarks, make some sense, because they are historians, and tehologians, scholars. Thats what is called authentic proof.


There is this little matter of the world 'All'. A limited subset with insufficent informatoin is not even approaching the claim 'all', particularly when the list is being published by a web site that has a specific bias in mind (that is trying to prove the Koran to be from God).

Thats why, the website have given references of the people from whom the remarks have been taken. If you have ddoubt, check the references of those peoples book, and find out yourself, through your remarks, it seems you are getting BIAS towards Quran and Islam:)

Laslty, this post is regarding Bible, not Quran, so bring your topics and discussion on Bible please as per the rules

[TrueReligion]

The Jehovah's Witnesses in their "AWAKE!" Magazine dated 8 September, 1957, carried this startling headline " "50000 ERRORS IN THE BIBLE?" (See below for the reproduction).

What the christians have to say in this, is still remaining or they are removed? if removed? how many remaining now?

This is meaningless, as this ludicrous claim comes from the Watchtower Religious Organization - a man-made organization which uses a mutilated version of "the Bible". They claimed that "the Bible" contains errors, so they "rewrote" it as they saw fit.

http://www.sixscreensofthewatchtower.co ... tion1.html

Even if we consider JW's claim as false, do you mean that the Bible is without errors?

[TrueReligion]

Yes , your request and reasons are understanndable.

For Quran to verify that its not been tempered and changed, you can check any older translation of Quran, and compre it with modern or any Quran, they will be same word by word.
2nd reason is, Quran dont have multiple versions, its only 1 version. unline Bible, e.g KJV. RSV , Hebrew, Greek, Samaritan etc etc.

That is indeed impressive to have a book maintain its consistency throughout so many centuries.

For War, it was 1 of many reasons that Bible was not being able to keep its original script, Jews destroyed many churches, and civilization, babylon etc etc .
But Quran was kept same, as no this kind of war Islam have seen, that complete civilization was finish,

Could you restate this? I did not understand your point.

we have historical evidence that all the
books of the Old Testament were in a very bad condition before the invasion of
Nebuchadnezzar and after his invasion there was no trace of them left but their names, its 1 example, hope you can understand,, how the books were lost, and thn were re-writen by just imagination, and stories found as folk-tales, in which human-mind played a major part.

Also Quran is memorizedd by millions of muslims, even the dot, comma and other imp arabic terms. even if Quran is finished as a book, it will remain complete memorized in heart by muslims. and Thats 1 of the many miracle of Quran, that even non-arabic muslims can easily memorize it.

I'm sure there are many Christians who also memorize their holy writ. I'm not sure what your point is though?

My point is this, as Quran is same throughout centuries, and people have learnt by heart, its hard to change at any time, unlike Bible, where very less % of christians memorized it, including passtors, priests (they also have;nt memorized)etc etc, chances of changing text is more.
Like many verses and texts, are still changed in KJV and NIV.
Now question is, if its a word of God, y there are errors, and changes required, did God made soo many mistakes? that still after 2000+ years its not fixed?

Again, when claiming authenticity of holy writ it does help to have what is largely accepted as the original version as it were. Assuming that indeed every historian agrees the Quran has not had any changes made to it, this does favorably distinguish it from the Christian Bible. I too have my reservations about much of what has been claimed from the OT and particulary the NT. My own Christian faith in its Articles of Faith claims that we believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. This is to imply that parts of the scripture have lost its initial meaning for many reason including some of which you have listed. We as Latter-day Saints contend that a prophet is the only one vested with helping the masses sift through much of the confusion found in the Bible and its many versions.

Returning to the questions more germane to your OP, what is it that prompts you to be confident that the authorship of the Quran is indeed communications from God?

For Quran discussion and authenticity, we have another post going on sir, where we can discuss it more freely, if its ok for you, we can emphasize on Bible here only .
Hope you understand.

[Vanguard]

Now question is, if its a word of God, y there are errors, and changes required, did God made soo many mistakes? that still after 2000+ years its not fixed?

I believe you may have misunderstood what many Christians believe about their Bible. Though there are many fundamentalists who believe that each and every word is indeed a communique from their God there are just as many who don't believe that each and every word is something that their God intended to communicate. I agree very much with your argument that many important ideas have been edited out for whatever reason. This however is not to suggest that therefore the Bible should be discarded as something that does not represent direction from God.

Returning to the questions more germane to your OP, what is it that prompts you to be confident that the authorship of the Quran is indeed communications from God?

For Quran discussion and authenticity, we have another post going on sir, where we can discuss it more freely, if its ok for you, we can emphasize on Bible here only .
Hope you understand.

Yes, I do understand as long as you agree that this therefore cannot be a conversation about whether your text is the only sacred text revealing the word of God. For us to accept that we would first need to delve into that claim - the very claim you are asking not be addressed in this thread.

As such, you will find much agreement from me regards to the problems we as Christians find in our Bible. There is much of me that wishes the confusion were not so. If both you and I agree on this point what more is there to conclude but to pursue other options that would direct us toward the mind of God?

[TrueReligion]

Now question is, if its a word of God, y there are errors, and changes required, did God made soo many mistakes? that still after 2000+ years its not fixed?

I believe you may have misunderstood what many Christians believe about their Bible. Though there are many fundamentalists who believe that each and every word is indeed a communique from their God there are just as many who don't believe that each and every word is something that their God intended to communicate. I agree very much with your argument that many important ideas have been edited out for whatever reason. This however is not to suggest that therefore the Bible should be discarded as something that does not represent direction from God.

If you know, its a must for a muslim to believe in all the 4 books revealed by God.
Torah
Psalsms(David)
Injeel (Gospel)/Bible
Quran.

Now what muslim believe is that the Gospel revealed to Jesus, means (Gospel of Jesus) or Evangel of Jesus was never writen in time of Jesus, neither by any of his diciple. right? And writen by many unknown authors, which christian scholars also admited.
Now so many fabrication, and human-mind playing role, you cannot claim current Bible as word of God. And due to too much human mind played, the base of Trinity came, and so-called crucifiction as well.

Returning to the questions more germane to your OP, what is it that prompts you to be confident that the authorship of the Quran is indeed communications from God?

For Quran discussion and authenticity, we have another post going on sir, where we can discuss it more freely, if its ok for you, we can emphasize on Bible here only .
Hope you understand.

Yes, I do understand as long as you agree that this therefore cannot be a conversation about whether your text is the only sacred text revealing the word of God. For us to accept that we would first need to delve into that claim - the very claim you are asking not be addressed in this thread.

You can ask for claims, 1 claim I gave you already, that its never been changed.
Other, it gives the correct and right picture of Jesus, as well as other prophets e.g Lot, Noah, Abrham, Moses, David, Solomon etc etc, which in Bible is given in a bad prospective.
Others, you can read Quran, and find out yourself, what difference you feel.

As such, you will find much agreement from me regards to the problems we as Christians find in our Bible. There is much of me that wishes the confusion were not so. If both you and I agree on this point what more is there to conclude but to pursue other options that would direct us toward the mind of God?

Let me rephrase again Sir, Muslims, Jews & Christians share same belief, that we are son of Adam & Eve. and our God is ONE (Lets keep Jesus out as God for time being) .
Now if we make it as our common point, further we have to look at the scriptures send by God to us. which is
TorahPsalmsBibleQuran

After agreeing on this, that these are the revealed books of God, we need to know, which one is more precise, and free from human change and mind. and accept it without any hesitation.

It will clear and remove all the mis-coonceptions, differences among us, and will play a major part of human brotherhood, and peace in the world, which we know well is not there cause of religious differences.

[FinalEnigma]

Now question is, if its a word of God, y there are errors, and changes required, did God made soo many mistakes? that still after 2000+ years its not fixed?

I believe you may have misunderstood what many Christians believe about their Bible. Though there are many fundamentalists who believe that each and every word is indeed a communique from their God there are just as many who don't believe that each and every word is something that their God intended to communicate. I agree very much with your argument that many important ideas have been edited out for whatever reason. This however is not to suggest that therefore the Bible should be discarded as something that does not represent direction from God.

If you know, its a must for a muslim to believe in all the 4 books revealed by God.
Torah
Psalsms(David)
Injeel (Gospel)/Bible
Quran.

Now what muslim believe is that the Gospel revealed to Jesus, means (Gospel of Jesus) or Evangel of Jesus was never writen in time of Jesus, neither by any of his diciple. right? And writen by many unknown authors, which christian scholars also admited.
Now so many fabrication, and human-mind playing role, you cannot claim current Bible as word of God. And due to too much human mind played, the base of Trinity came, and so-called crucifiction as well.

Returning to the questions more germane to your OP, what is it that prompts you to be confident that the authorship of the Quran is indeed communications from God?

For Quran discussion and authenticity, we have another post going on sir, where we can discuss it more freely, if its ok for you, we can emphasize on Bible here only .
Hope you understand.

Yes, I do understand as long as you agree that this therefore cannot be a conversation about whether your text is the only sacred text revealing the word of God. For us to accept that we would first need to delve into that claim - the very claim you are asking not be addressed in this thread.

You can ask for claims, 1 claim I gave you already, that its never been changed.
Other, it gives the correct and right picture of Jesus, as well as other prophets e.g Lot, Noah, Abrham, Moses, David, Solomon etc etc, which in Bible is given in a bad prospective.
Others, you can read Quran, and find out yourself, what difference you feel.

As such, you will find much agreement from me regards to the problems we as Christians find in our Bible. There is much of me that wishes the confusion were not so. If both you and I agree on this point what more is there to conclude but to pursue other options that would direct us toward the mind of God?

Let me rephrase again Sir, Muslims, Jews & Christians share same belief, that we are son of Adam & Eve. and our God is ONE (Lets keep Jesus out as God for time being) .
Now if we make it as our common point, further we have to look at the scriptures send by God to us. which is
TorahPsalmsBibleQuran

After agreeing on this, that these are the revealed books of God, we need to know, which one is more precise, and free from human change and mind. and accept it without any hesitation.

It will clear and remove all the mis-coonceptions, differences among us, and will play a major part of human brotherhood, and peace in the world, which we know well is not there cause of religious differences.

The problem with that is that Jews don't admit that the NT is from God, nor the Quran, and christians don't admit that the Quran is from God.
So as far as christians are concerned, the Quran is not the word of God, so the most precise and free of error word of God would be the bible.

[TrueReligion]

Now question is, if its a word of God, y there are errors, and changes required, did God made soo many mistakes? that still after 2000+ years its not fixed?

I believe you may have misunderstood what many Christians believe about their Bible. Though there are many fundamentalists who believe that each and every word is indeed a communique from their God there are just as many who don't believe that each and every word is something that their God intended to communicate. I agree very much with your argument that many important ideas have been edited out for whatever reason. This however is not to suggest that therefore the Bible should be discarded as something that does not represent direction from God.

If you know, its a must for a muslim to believe in all the 4 books revealed by God.
Torah
Psalsms(David)
Injeel (Gospel)/Bible
Quran.

Now what muslim believe is that the Gospel revealed to Jesus, means (Gospel of Jesus) or Evangel of Jesus was never writen in time of Jesus, neither by any of his diciple. right? And writen by many unknown authors, which christian scholars also admited.
Now so many fabrication, and human-mind playing role, you cannot claim current Bible as word of God. And due to too much human mind played, the base of Trinity came, and so-called crucifiction as well.

Returning to the questions more germane to your OP, what is it that prompts you to be confident that the authorship of the Quran is indeed communications from God?

For Quran discussion and authenticity, we have another post going on sir, where we can discuss it more freely, if its ok for you, we can emphasize on Bible here only .
Hope you understand.

Yes, I do understand as long as you agree that this therefore cannot be a conversation about whether your text is the only sacred text revealing the word of God. For us to accept that we would first need to delve into that claim - the very claim you are asking not be addressed in this thread.

You can ask for claims, 1 claim I gave you already, that its never been changed.
Other, it gives the correct and right picture of Jesus, as well as other prophets e.g Lot, Noah, Abrham, Moses, David, Solomon etc etc, which in Bible is given in a bad prospective.
Others, you can read Quran, and find out yourself, what difference you feel.

As such, you will find much agreement from me regards to the problems we as Christians find in our Bible. There is much of me that wishes the confusion were not so. If both you and I agree on this point what more is there to conclude but to pursue other options that would direct us toward the mind of God?

Let me rephrase again Sir, Muslims, Jews & Christians share same belief, that we are son of Adam & Eve. and our God is ONE (Lets keep Jesus out as God for time being) .
Now if we make it as our common point, further we have to look at the scriptures send by God to us. which is
TorahPsalmsBibleQuran

After agreeing on this, that these are the revealed books of God, we need to know, which one is more precise, and free from human change and mind. and accept it without any hesitation.

It will clear and remove all the mis-coonceptions, differences among us, and will play a major part of human brotherhood, and peace in the world, which we know well is not there cause of religious differences.

The problem with that is that Jews don't admit that the NT is from God, nor the Quran, and christians don't admit that the Quran is from God.
So as far as christians are concerned, the Quran is not the word of God, so the most precise and free of error word of God would be the bible.

But its proven that Bible is ful of errors, to accept by other relgion is different thing, which can't be taken as genuine reason for acepting or not accepting.
If many errors and contradictions are already found in Bible,. therefore no way it can be taken as word of God.
ALSO christian scholars admited already for bible errors, whereas no muslim scholar or other have found any errors or contradictions in Quran.
There fore final and most precise word of God is QURAN.

[T-mash]

ALSO christian scholars admited already for bible errors, whereas no muslim scholar or other have found any errors or contradictions in Quran.
There fore final and most precise word of God is QURAN.

Qur'an is indeed the most supportive book talking from a logical viewpoint. However this does not really have so much to do with it being more likely to be the word of god as it does with a more simple fact. The Torah is oooooold. I'm not sure about what age it is claimed to be now, but last I heard it was about 1400 BC with the Qur'an at 600 CE or so. This is a time gap of nearly 2000 years.

[TrueReligion]

ALSO christian scholars admited already for bible errors, whereas no muslim scholar or other have found any errors or contradictions in Quran.
There fore final and most precise word of God is QURAN.

Qur'an is indeed the most supportive book talking from a logical viewpoint. However this does not really have so much to do with it being more likely to be the word of god as it does with a more simple fact. The Torah is oooooold. I'm not sure about what age it is claimed to be now, but last I heard it was about 1400 BC with the Qur'an at 600 CE or so. This is a time gap of nearly 2000 years.

Ofcourse Torah is old,but wat about the contradictions found and erros in Torah and Bible,? with these facts, can some1 claim it as word of God?

[T-mash]

Ofcourse Torah is old,but wat about the contradictions found and erros in Torah and Bible,? with these facts, can some1 claim it as word of God?

Well first of anyone can claim just about anything, so yes

If you mean: Does it make sense that a holy book written by god, or by men inspired by god telling us his word, is flawed? Then no. It does not make sense. A perfect god that wouldn't pass a first grade biology or geology test is not making sense. However putting a literal belief in the bible and that all of it is true is arguably not making sense in the first place and I don't think any Christian on this forum does (as in being a follower of the flat earth society).