A Deluge of Evidence for the Flood?

[LittlePig]

And I can't think of any reason you would make the comment you made if you weren't suggesting that the find favored your view of a worldwide flood.

Umm, because simply it's a better explanation? And the fact that it's more consistent with the Flood Model doesn't hurt either.

Except, of course, it isn't consistent with a 'Flood Model', since it isn't mixed in with any animals that we know are modern.

Before the rabbits multiply beyond control, I'll just leave my proposal as a rapid burial. Nothing more than that. For this thread, it can just be a giant mud slide.

Since it's still spring time, let's let the rabbits multiply.

Questions for Debate:

1) Does a Global Flood Model provide the best explanation for our current fossil record, geologic formations, and biodiversity?

2) What real science is used in Global Flood Models?

3) What predictions does a Global Flood Model make?

4) Have Global Flood Models ever been subjected to a formal peer review process?

[nygreenguy]

This should be taken to another thread even if evolution does have something to say about the flood model. Such as the evolution and dispersion of species.

Why is that? The purpose of this thread is evidence for a flood, and I have evidence its impossible. Why cant I counter their evidence in the thread where their claims are made?

Also, oseteng said he doesnt/couldnt participate in another thread.

[Cathar1950]

This should be taken to another thread even if evolution does have something to say about the flood model. Such as the evolution and dispersion of species.

Why is that? The purpose of this thread is evidence for a flood, and I have evidence its impossible. Why cant I counter their evidence in the thread where their claims are made?

Also, oseteng said he doesnt/couldnt participate in another thread.

I was more addressing Except or except and his problems with evolution and his "Bible" reading and selective interpretations.

[xcept]

Debates of this nature are always personal attacks. There's no getting around this.
The anti christians call christians out for believing in fairytales and being liars and having a rudimentary understanding of science and call God or Christ by various names other than something respectible.

As soon as a Christian stops turning the other cheek and starts using the anti christians tactics then its deemed unfair or personal attacks. Is this a double standard? I certainly think so.

Now the reason I asked the other participant about them reading the entire Bible was to see if I am debating noahs flood with someone that actually read and understands it or if they are only going of what they've read from atheist websites. So let me know the answer to this.

We do not klnow what a preflood supercontinent would be like because we live in a post flood world. It certainly would be obvious to the writers of Genesis (you realize God gave this information to Moses directly?) that it was one single continent. Such as God states that everything was very good at the end of the creation week. Genesis 10 states in the days of Peleg, the earth was divided. Of course I believe this is more to do with the confounding of the languages and destruction of the tower of babel. Which was likely caused by an earth quake of sorts since the tower was destroyed.

The flood model makes more sense of why we have trillions of buried fossils. Perhaps read up on the effects of iron in the ocean. It was once said by a scientist, not sure who, but he said give me a tanker full of iron and I will give you an ice age. I think even that amount wouldn't be enough to create an ice age. There are a lot of factors in play for which we can never recreate because we live in a post flood world.
Another recent find is fossilized orb weaver webbing, complete with sticky solution and its a full 100 million years older than the previous view of 35 mil years. So since orb weavers are to have evolved this web making and sticky residue after flowers and flying insects evolved then this is just one more major roadblock for the evolutionary model.

I don't need an understanding of all the facets of evolution, I just need to understand contradictions in reality, and this theory has them in spades.

[Cathar1950]

Debates of this nature are always personal attacks. There's no getting around this.
The anti christians call christians out for believing in fairytales and being liars and having a rudimentary understanding of science and call God or Christ by various names other than something respectible.

As soon as a Christian stops turning the other cheek and starts using the anti christians tactics then its deemed unfair or personal attacks. Is this a double standard? I certainly think so. .

If you are doing anti-Christian things what is it that makes you a Christian except believing that an ancient story is somehow true?
Yes it is a double standard as you think somehow God is on your side when you do antichrist like stuff while the non Christian is just being honest so I guess that sounds more like you are being a hypocrite then there is some double standard. Maybe you are not a hypocrite and you are just acting like one by doing something your belief says not to do and then doing it because others, including some Christians, disagree with your interpretation or understanding. That almost sounds like some kind of sin; you know when you know something is wrong and you do it anyway. What do they call it when they are doing something wrong because you think someone else is wrong?
Of course I dont recall anyone saying you were lying because you were a Christian and I think you need to shoulder that burden alone.

Now the reason I asked the other participant about them reading the entire Bible was to see if I am debating noahs flood with someone that actually read and understands it or if they are only going of what they've read from atheist websites. So let me know the answer to this.

The answer is yes I have read and studied both versions of the flood story as well as the redactions, editing and reworking done by priests and scribes between 900 and 500 BCE. I have also read and studies what scholars are saying about the even older stories with similar details that were myths of the overlords, rivals and neighbors. Have you done any more then read the stories as one story?

We do not klnow what a preflood supercontinent would be like because we live in a post flood world. It certainly would be obvious to the writers of Genesis (you realize God gave this information to Moses directly?) that it was one single continent. Such as God states that everything was very good at the end of the creation week. Genesis 10 states in the days of Peleg, the earth was divided. Of course I believe this is more to do with the confounding of the languages and destruction of the tower of babel. Which was likely caused by an earth quake of sorts since the tower was destroyed.

Do you realize that the stories were written long after the supposed time of Moses and therefore he didnt write the stories? Also we are not told who the writers are and you are simply repeating questionable and non-factual traditions. I dont think we really care what your esoteric beliefs are as you are not doing anything more then repeating a 19th century re-myth making of an ancient story you fail to fully understand.

[nygreenguy]

We do not klnow what a preflood supercontinent would be like because we live in a post flood world.

So what? We dont need to be somewhere to know what events happened because evidence is left behind. Its just like any crime scene without a witness. Forensics is a pretty facinating field.

It certainly would be obvious to the writers of Genesis (you realize God gave this information to Moses directly?)

Says who?

that it was one single continent. Such as God states that everything was very good at the end of the creation week. Genesis 10 states in the days of Peleg, the earth was divided. Of course I believe this is more to do with the confounding of the languages and destruction of the tower of babel. Which was likely caused by an earth quake of sorts since the tower was destroyed.

other than the bible, where is the actual empirical evidence?

The flood model makes more sense of why we have trillions of buried fossils.

Then why do all the people, who study this stuff for a living, christians and non-christians, disagree?

Perhaps read up on the effects of iron in the ocean. It was once said by a scientist, not sure who, but he said give me a tanker full of iron and I will give you an ice age. I think even that amount wouldn't be enough to create an ice age. There are a lot of factors in play for which we can never recreate because we live in a post flood world.

You are giving me a vague claim from an unnamed source as evidence?

Another recent find is fossilized orb weaver webbing, complete with sticky solution and its a full 100 million years older than the previous view of 35 mil years. So since orb weavers are to have evolved this web making and sticky residue after flowers and flying insects evolved then this is just one more major roadblock for the evolutionary model.

I did a very brief search for this and didnt find anything. Can you give a link or some more specifics?

I don't need an understanding of all the facets of evolution, I just need to understand contradictions in reality, and this theory has them in spades.

Oh, this is the "i dont need no science, i gots me some common sense". This is simply a handwaving away of the facts, and doesnt do anything to support your argument.

[Physicist]

I don't need an understanding of all the facets of evolution, I just need to understand contradictions in reality, and this theory has them in spades.

I call this rationale, the argument from ignorance. One doesn't understand a scientific theory so therefore concludes it must be false.

Scientific reputation is made by finding flaws in our existing knowledge base and showing how to correct it. If there were obvious contradiction in Darwin's theory, biologists would be rushing to publish them in peer-reviewed journals. Instead, we find Creationists engaging in deceit to push their religious agenda.

[xcept]

1) Does a Global Flood Model provide the best explanation for [...] biodiversity?

Let me go for some low lying fruit here. What does the Global Flood Model predict in terms of biodiversity? Not the prevalence of marsupial species in Australia certainly.

Actually it does much better than the evo theory does.

If all animals originated from one place and spread out from there. The marsupial animals could travel further than the placental animals because they do not have to stop for as much as even weeks like a placental animal does. The ice bridge could still be there over and into new zealand and australia. Which would make sense to have things in new zealand such as elephant birds, and marsupials at the furthest reaches like the US and Australia. Having Australia be an island then the animals would certainly speciate much better being isolated.

Unlike the opossum here in the US.

[Furrowed Brow]

1) Does a Global Flood Model provide the best explanation for [...] biodiversity?

Let me go for some low lying fruit here. What does the Global Flood Model predict in terms of biodiversity? Not the prevalence of marsupial species in Australia certainly.

Actually it does much better than the evo theory does.

If all animals originated from one place and spread out from there. The marsupial animals could travel further than the placental animals because they do not have to stop for as much as even weeks like a placental animal does. The ice bridge could still be there over and into new zealand and australia. Which would make sense to have things in new zealand such as elephant birds, and marsupials at the furthest reaches like the US and Australia. Having Australia be an island then the animals would certainly speciate much better being isolated.

Unlike the opossum here in the US.

Ok lets run with this. Lets say marsupials got to Australia because they travel better. But how come all the marsupials ended up in Australia, and they did not leave any behind along the way. Did they all know where they wanted to get to? You sure this model does better.

• 1/ It requires an unproved assumption marsupials travel better.
  2/ It requires a land bridge.....in recent earth history.
  3/ It requires all the marsupials to head off in the same direction together and no stragglers. Unlike snakes and crocs and spiders and lizards.

Actually.... it does much much worse.

[xcept]

The marsupials became isolated at the island of australia after the land bridge dissipated. Any marsupials not in australia. The ones that were slower got eaten.

Obviously

Unproved assumption that marsupials travel better? Really? Look at the kangaroo. How far can it go in one jaunt? I man once chased one with his jeep for over 20 miles then watched it swim out to sea. Amazing animals. And they carry their young in pouches. They don't have to stop to give birth.

[xcept]

The marsupials became isolated at the island of australia after the land bridge dissipated. Any marsupials not in australia. The ones that were slower got eaten.

Obviously

Unproved assumption that marsupials travel better? Really? Look at the kangaroo. How far can it go in one jaunt? I man once chased one with his jeep for over 20 miles then watched it swim out to sea. Amazing animals. And they carry their young in pouches. They don't have to stop to give birth.

Marsupials didn't head off in the same direction together. In america we have the opossum.

Animals go extinct everyday. New animals are discovered everyday. There's a lot we don't know yet.