Equality in Islam?

[van]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091215/ap_ ... harassment

Harassment across Arab world drives women inside

By SARAH EL DEEB, Associated Press Writer Sarah El Deeb, Associated Press Writer " Tue Dec 15, 8:43 am ET
CAIRO " The sexual harassment of women in the streets, schools and work places of the Arab world is driving them to cover up and confine themselves to their homes, said activists at the first-ever regional conference addressing the once taboo topic.

Activists from 17 countries across the region met in Cairo for a two-day conference ending Monday and concluded that harassment was unchecked across the region because laws don't punish it, women don't report it and the authorities ignore it.

The harassment, including groping and verbal abuse, is a daily experience women in the region face and makes them wary of going into public spaces, whether it's the streets or jobs, the participants said. It happens regardless of what women are wearing.

With more and more women in schools, the workplace and politics, roles have changed but often traditional attitudes have not. Experts said in some places, like Egypt, harassment appears sometimes to be out of vengeance, from men blaming women for denied work opportunities.

Amal Madbouli, who wears the conservative face veil or niqab, told The Associated Press that despite her dress, she is harassed and described how a man came after her in the streets of her neighborhood.

"He hissed at me and kept asking me if I wanted to go with him to a quieter area, and to give him my phone number," said Madbouli, a mother of two. "This is a national security issue. I am a mother, and I want to be reassured when my daughters go out on the streets."

Statistics on harassment in the region have until recently been nonexistent, but a series of studies presented at the conference hinted at the widespread nature of the problem.

As many as 90 percent of Yemeni women say they have been harassed, while in Egypt, out of a sample of 1,000, 83 percent reported being verbally or physically abused.

A study in Lebanon reported that more than 30 percent of women said they had been harassed there.

"We are facing a phenomena that is limiting women's right to move ... and is threatening women's participation in all walks of life," said Nehad Abul Komsan, an Egyptian activist who organized the event with funding from the U.N. and the Swedish development agency.

Harassment has long been a problem in Mideast nations. But it was little discussed until three years ago, when blogs gave posted amateur videos showing a crowd of men assaulting women in downtown Cairo during a major Muslim holiday in one of the most shocking harassment incidents in the region.

The public outcry sparked an unprecedented public acknowledgment of the problem in Egypt and elsewhere in the region, and drove the Egyptian government to consider two draft bills addressing sexual harassment.

Sexual harassment, including verbal and physical assault, has been specifically criminalized in only half a dozen Arab countries over the past five years. Most of the 22 Arab states outlaw overtly violent acts like rape or lewd acts in public areas, according to a study by Abul Komsan.

Participants at the conference said men are threatened by an increasingly active female labor force, with conservatives laying the blame for harassment on women's dress and behavior.

In Syria, men from traditional homes go shopping in the market place instead of female family members to spare them harassment, said Sherifa Zuhur, a Lebanese-American academic at the conference.

Abul Komsan described how one of the victims of harassment she interviewed told her she had taken on the full-face veil to stave off the hassle.

"She told me 'I have put on the niqab. By God, what more can I do so they leave me alone,'" she said, quoting the woman. Some even said they were reconsidering going to work or school because of the constant harassment in the streets and on public transpiration.

Where segregation between the sexes is the norm and women are sheltered by religious or tribal customs, cases of sexual harassment are still common at homes and in the times when women must venture out, whether to markets, hospitals or government offices.

In Yemen, where nearly all women are covered from head to toe, activist Amal Basha said 90 percent of women in a published study reported harassment, specifically pinching.

"The religious leaders are always blaming the women, making them live in a constant state of fear because out there, someone is following them," she said.

If a harassment case is reported in Yemen, Basha added, traditional leaders interfere to cover it up, remove the evidence or terrorize the victim.

In Saudi Arabia, another country where women cover themselves completely and are nearly totally segregated from men in public life, women report harassment as well, according to Saudi activist Majid al-Eissa.

His organization, the National Family Safety Program, has been helping draft a law criminalizing violence against women in the conservative kingdom, where flirting can often cross the line into outright assault. Discussion of the law begins Tuesday.

"It will take time especially in this part of the world to absorb the gender mixture and the role each gender can play in society," he said. "We are coping with changes (of modern life), except in our minds."

[JoeyKnothead]

I agree with T-Mash. TrueReligion, all you ever do when confronted with something that is negative about either Islam or an Eastern Society is to try and find an example of it in a different country. That is not justification. For crying out loud, that article, as Ms Mash highlighted reports in some cases 90 PERCENT of a society's women being abused and you report of an 8% issue in some parts of the US. Are you joking?

Islamic countries subjugate women and it's time for you to just accept that fact rather than trying to show someone else is in the wrong as well - that isn't the point. That's like committing a crime, such as say, theft and justifying it by showing others who do the same thing. That ain't on - it's a childish tactic and does not help your cause at all.

Well said.

TrueReligion offers other acts of discrimination to justify Islamic discrimination, or to somehow deny it occurs.

Pot, meet kettle.

[T-mash]

T-M, closing your eyes on your side, and just looking at others will not make you high and good.

Indeed. So why are you doing it?

Sexual harrasment cases are everywhere in world, I would say they are more in West, and can prove it as wel

This would be the part where you give us numbers to prove it.

West mostly treat women as sex-symbol, and that also is obvious with 90% of porno channels are working from west.

And? What is the problem with women deciding they want to go into the porno industry to make money? Oh right. Women shouldn't be allowed to show of their body but they should be hidden from top to toe else 'some' people can't control their lust and rape them.

Ps. Islam turns women into sex-symbols too. Remember your 'reward' for being a martyr? Remember why women have to cover themselves?

Rape stats also convince every that its most in Western countries.

1) I doubt it
2) If it does it's obvious why. In order to get statistics about rape of women it first has to be a crime!

Sorry to say T-M, but your history is very weak, Islam gave high rank to women,

Yes, being forced to walk behind your husband, take any kind of abuse he gives you and being seen as property is indeed a very high rank....

[JoeyKnothead]

2) If it does it's obvious why. In order to get statistics about rape of women it first has to be a crime!

What woman in their right mind would even report a rape when she herself faces execution for adultery or some such over the matter?

What woman is willing to risk their life testifying for another, when it takes more than one woman to provide more "witness" than a single man?

Edit in...

Then there's that whole "honor killing" deal, where regardless, the woman faces punishment from her own family.

[van]

So you dont like covering of ladies? you like them without cover in short dresses, so they can be targeted and molested easily.

I see no need for a woman to veil her face or wear a burka. You are making the victim responsible for the crime by makng the woman cover up. Only criminals hide their faces completely.

Here is some stats of rapes and molestations, which clearly shows that the most targeted women are of west, who dont like to cover themselves.

I would bet my life on the fact that women in muslims countires don't report rapes because they the victims are punished lashed for getting raped.

As per Bible, women who dont cover, should shave her head.

The veil is not a uniquely Islamic convention; the practice has a long history in the Judeo-Christian tradition. Catholic nuns engage in the practice, of course, and there are several references to the practice in both the Old and New Testaments (King James Version). Ironically, the representation of veiling in the Bible is much more problematic than those in the Qur'an or the Hadith, because the Judeo-Christian sources imply that women should be covered because of their inherent inferiority. I Corinthians 11 (3-10) offers one example:

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying having his head covered, dishonoreth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoreth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn or shaven; but if it be a hame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

Finish the chapter
1 Corinthians 11
Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.

Now if your argument is that Islam is not giving equal rights to women, I can give you realy good example for that, and the fact is tht its only Islam, which gives equal right to women, specially at the time of Arab pagans, who used to burry their daughters alive.

Hey guess what we live in 2009 not 600AD!! LOL!! Islam is lagging way behind!

[TrueReligion]

T-M, closing your eyes on your side, and just looking at others will not make you high and good.

Indeed. So why are you doing it?

If youve noticed, the post is made intentionaly to attack Islam, by only 1 specific user . So the reply is given to that user in same way, otherwise as you gave remarks, I replied to you in right way, with explanation.

Sexual harrasment cases are everywhere in world, I would say they are more in West, and can prove it as wel

This would be the part where you give us numbers to prove it.

I gave already the link, which shows the stats of rapes and harrasment, and top most are the western countries.

West mostly treat women as sex-symbol, and that also is obvious with 90% of porno channels are working from west.

And? What is the problem with women deciding they want to go into the porno industry to make money? Oh right. Women shouldn't be allowed to show of their body but they should be hidden from top to toe else 'some' people can't control their lust and rape them.

Ps. Islam turns women into sex-symbols too. Remember your 'reward' for being a martyr? Remember why women have to cover themselves?

Only statement, no evidence or proof of this:) you are admiting yourself that for women to work, and to get her fed cause of hunger and poverty, she is forced to work in pornography, and prostitution, and evidence is also there that every year lots of innocent teen girls from asian-countries are smugles to west for this purpose.

Rape stats also convince every that its most in Western countries.

1) I doubt it
2) If it does it's obvious why. In order to get statistics about rape of women it first has to be a crime!

The stats is shown of rape in crime category, open your eyes and you will see T-M

Sorry to say T-M, but your history is very weak, Islam gave high rank to women,

Yes, being forced to walk behind your husband, take any kind of abuse he gives you and being seen as property is indeed a very high rank....

Any proof? there are many non-muslim women who follow that,:) its a respect, not by force, care to bring any document of any scripture where it state that women should be force to walk behind?further, these women show respect, that man is superior to women in many ways, not like West where girls treat husbands like Dogs

Further, its sad that you didnt even read what Islamic law has given right to women, and the incident placed for you, that what pagans do with women, and what Islam stoped them from doing them, and brought women in a high place.

This is showing very much that your own intention is onlyto attack Islam, and not to be convinced by any argument, sorry T-M, but its not a debate anymore, its only attacking, which is showing the real image of West, that is against Islam in every means.

[TrueReligion]

2) If it does it's obvious why. In order to get statistics about rape of women it first has to be a crime!

What woman in their right mind would even report a rape when she herself faces execution for adultery or some such over the matter?

What woman is willing to risk their life testifying for another, when it takes more than one woman to provide more "witness" than a single man?

Edit in...

Then there's that whole "honor killing" deal, where regardless, the woman faces punishment from her own family.

Any proof ? its just statements what you have said, bring some authentic proof and evidence from scriptures.
Statements like this can be given in reply as well, but it wont help the cause of this debate.
Remember its a debate site, not chat site where people give statement, so bring something as evidence.

[TrueReligion]

So you dont like covering of ladies? you like them without cover in short dresses, so they can be targeted and molested easily.

I see no need for a woman to veil her face or wear a burka. You are making the victim responsible for the crime by makng the woman cover up. Only criminals hide their faces completely.

So you are making women criminals?:) wow, wat a funny remarks, this makes end of this discussion, as you are not giving equal rights to women, and how can claim this for Islam?

Here is some stats of rapes and molestations, which clearly shows that the most targeted women are of west, who dont like to cover themselves.

I would bet my life on the fact that women in muslims countires don't report rapes because they the victims are punished lashed for getting raped.

Care to bring evidence:) ,
Also, you are admiting cleanly that rape and molestation is more and high in west, and the reason is well-known.

As per Bible, women who dont cover, should shave her head.

The veil is not a uniquely Islamic convention; the practice has a long history in the Judeo-Christian tradition. Catholic nuns engage in the practice, of course, and there are several references to the practice in both the Old and New Testaments (King James Version). Ironically, the representation of veiling in the Bible is much more problematic than those in the Qur'an or the Hadith, because the Judeo-Christian sources imply that women should be covered because of their inherent inferiority. I Corinthians 11 (3-10) offers one example:

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying having his head covered, dishonoreth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoreth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn or shaven; but if it be a hame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

Finish the chapter
1 Corinthians 11
Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.

Now if your argument is that Islam is not giving equal rights to women, I can give you realy good example for that, and the fact is tht its only Islam, which gives equal right to women, specially at the time of Arab pagans, who used to burry their daughters alive.

Hey guess what we live in 2009 not 600AD!! LOL!! Islam is lagging way behind!

Yeah, this means Bible is retarded, and not should be taught, as its Bible which said that women head should be cover:)

You also admit that wats writen in Bible is wrong, and should not be followed.
Thanks for admiting that as well, we were eager to here from you that as well

Further, 21st century means that you should stop treating your parents good, right?
21st century means that you should start incest in church, and child molestation, gay and lesbian should marry each other, right?

Your argument for 21st century shows very childish approach, it means we should abandon all the religions, and live life without any religion. Than why we are here on this site? This site should also not be there as well right?

[Wyvern]

Your argument for 21st century shows very childish approach, it means we should abandon all the religions, and live life without any religion.

I don't see the problem with this idea and as has been seen in europe, Japan and parts of america many others also have no problem living without religion.

[T-mash]

Your argument for 21st century shows very childish approach, it means we should abandon all the religions, and live life without any religion. Than why we are here on this site? This site should also not be there as well right?

You have yourself a deal.

[Wyvern]

Here is some stats of rapes and molestations, which clearly shows that the most targeted women are of west, who dont like to cover themselves.

Care to bring evidence:) ,
Also, you are admiting cleanly that rape and molestation is more and high in west, and the reason is well-known.

You know TR you are absolutely correct rape is much higher in the west in fact Europe is going through what they are calling a rape epidemic. The vast majority of these rapes are being committed by muslim

http://www.iris.org.il/blog/archives/7 ... mic.html

It seems islamic men have no capabilty to control themselves and of course why should they when the culture they grew up in does not require them to control themselves and in fact their religion condones such behavior.