What is the whole point of Christianity anyways?

[otseng]

What is the whole point of being a Christian?

Is it just to escape hell?
It is to just "believe in Jesus"?
Is it to enter heaven?
Is it just to have something to do on Sunday mornings?
Or is it something else?

[QED]

The Christian view transforms our innate tendencies into mysterious concepts like original sin in an attempt to moderate us through guilt. If we want to get a proper grip on any social problems arising from our baser instincts I'm convinced this blunt instrument does more harm than good.

I don't think this is a good explanation, QED. I think the central reason why Christianity introduced the concept of original sin was part of the early Christian Church's christology. Without the original sin, it is difficult to explain the crucifixion and redemption through Christ's blood.

Really? I'm very interested in your "take" on this because you of all people understand the incremental process that gives rise to our teeth and nails (all be they rather flimsy by comparison with the same equipment fitted to many other animals) so I would have thought that you might have appreciated why we find ourselves in a somewhat awkward transitionary phase while our brains evolve away from their less civilised underpinnings.

When you say "Without the original sin, it is difficult to explain the crucifixion and redemption through Christ's blood" could you translate this into the sort of language I might be able to understand? I'm sorry to make demands on your translatative capacities but you are one of the few multilinguists that I know of around here.

[harvey1]

Really? I'm very interested in your "take" on this because you of all people understand the incremental process that gives rise to our teeth and nails (all be they rather flimsy by comparison with the same equipment fitted to many other animals) so I would have thought that you might have appreciated why we find ourselves in a somewhat awkward transitionary phase while our brains evolve away from their less civilised underpinnings.

I do appreciate it, however evolutionary psychology is not a universal solution for every reason as to why humans hold certain beliefs.

When you say "Without the original sin, it is difficult to explain the crucifixion and redemption through Christ's blood" could you translate this into the sort of language I might be able to understand? I'm sorry to make demands on your translatative capacities but you are one of the few multilinguists that I know of around here.

Well, in the Christian view of things, God is not only all-powerful and all-good, God is also perfect. That means that God is not able to sin or have any part in sin. So, this raises the question on how a perfect Creator could make something that has displays of evil (I guess you might accept that humans can act out in an evil manner?). If God created humans, and humans are evil, then why are they separated from God? In other words, why isn't God here right now holding our hands comforting us and doing all the things that many would like God to do every now and then. In the early Christian times, the answer was obvious. Adam and Eve had sinned, and as a result of their sin they were expelled from the garden of Eden, and then they were subject to death. (Prior to being expelled they had not sinned and therefore there was no promise of death.)

So, the original sin paved the way to understand not only how humans could be separated from God, but it also made a loophole on how a perfect God could forgive humans of their original rejection of God (via Adam). And, that was through Jesus. The penalty of the original sin could be "paid" by Jesus "paying" for the cost of the original sin (namely, death and permanent separation from God), and therefore humans could be brought to God (or redeemed) through the blood of Jesus.

So, actually, the original sin is not necessarily a vestige of evolutionary psychology as it is more a philosophical attempt to answer a philosophical problem of a good and personal God trying to find a loophole in the system that would alleviate man's predicament of having sinned and brought death and pain upon himself. Through Jesus this penalty has been paid and now those humans who have accepted that sacrifice (namely, Christians) are just to wait until the Lord's coming when the consequences of death and pain will be removed and they will be permanently with God.

Of course, like usual, we are leaving the subject manner of this thread to yet another subject...

[FreddieFreeloader]

Or rather, where one believes there is no meaning to existence that is imposed from the outside. All meaning is found within. (Still, wouldn't trying to "get everyone else to feel the same way about life" imply that there is some meaning or purpose.)

Sort of like seeing faces and shapes in the clouds?

Exactly! It's like seeing patterns and meanings in clouds, in the sense that there is no external dictation of what one should see. However, it is only to those who deny what value an individual can find in a cloud, that the cloud seems meaningless.

I saw a horse cloud once.

That's nice, I saw a God cloud once.

Back to the question at hand. Isn't it besides the point to ask what the point of Christianity is? Can believing in Christ ever be justified by some pragmatic reason? Shouldn't it just be a matter of believing it because it is true, rather than believing it because it has certain benefits (such as getting oneself into heaven, because it is 'good' or finding some meaning to exist).

How do you know if something is true?

If I know, something it is true. But there are very few things that I know. Most of my mathematical knowledge I know, based on it's entirely logical nature. The rest I believe to be true, based on evidence, rather than how it makes me feel about myself, my destiny or my chances of finding a 10 billion dollar check on the sidewalk. The bottom line is that we should believe whatever we believe seperate from what we gain from it. Otherwise it's just another variation on Pascal's Wager.

[perplexed101]

exactly! It's like seeing patterns and meanings in clouds, in the sense that there is no external dictation of what one should see. However, it is only to those who deny what value an individual can find in a cloud, that the cloud seems meaningless.

and the cloud seems meaningless until its a thundercloud.. but then again it still may seem meaningless to you, im giving you the benefit of the doubt.

That's nice, I saw a God cloud once.

i found meaning in a cloud once as well except it was... clouds of smoke from local indians sending signals as a means to communicate. LOL.

I believe to be true

you had it right when you stated that.. wow, something to agree upon.

[harvey1]

It's like seeing patterns and meanings in clouds, in the sense that there is no external dictation of what one should see. However, it is only to those who deny what value an individual can find in a cloud, that the cloud seems meaningless.

So Hitler felt that Jewish lives were meaningless. Do you then think his views were no better or no worse than the majority of people who believe that their lives were meaningful and deserved better treatment than what Hitler did to them?

If I know, something it is true. But there are very few things that I know. Most of my mathematical knowledge I know, based on it's entirely logical nature. The rest I believe to be true, based on evidence, rather than how it makes me feel about myself, my destiny or my chances of finding a 10 billion dollar check on the sidewalk. The bottom line is that we should believe whatever we believe seperate from what we gain from it. Otherwise it's just another variation on Pascal's Wager.

But, you're just begging the question. How do you know that evidence of something is reason to believe it is true? People construct scenarios all the time based on evidence that is false. What about Ptolemic astronomy. It had evidence, people believed it for over a thousand years. Why not consider it to be true?

[Bro Dave]

I kept praying for Jesus to "tell me what to do, tell me his will". A small voice in my head asked me who I think Jesus really is. And I remembered who I really believe he is - perfect goodness, perfect humility, perfect love. And that's what Christianity is about to me, not just escaping hell, which I think is a fine reason for becoming a Christian, but actually finding true goodness and love and purity.

And this voice you hear, is the Spirity of Truth that Jesus left for each of us in his personal absents. As you have so beautifully described, all who truly seek do find. Our problem is not with Jesus and his loving teachings, its with Paul and the religion he created ABOUT Jesus! Had he continued the teaching of the Master, and the religion Jesus himself practiced, we would not have all the confusion over guilt and fear...

But I think the main point of Christianity is simply for people to both declare their faith in Christ and be in communion with other Christ followers.

There are many who love Jesus and are NOT "Christians". That label has been so tainted and misused to frighten and intimidate, that it bears little resemblance to how Jesus ministered. Never did he threaten or judge. His was a message of loving God as your Father, and all people as your siblings. But that just got lost along the way...

Bro Dave

[De Maria]

What is the whole point of being a Christian?

Is it just to escape hell?
It is to just "believe in Jesus"?
Is it to enter heaven?
Is it just to have something to do on Sunday mornings?
Or is it something else?

It is to achieve union with God.

Sincerely,

De Maria

[Pujitos]

Shouldn't it just be a matter of believing it because it is true,

Yaaaaay!
There is no point. It's just true. You believe it because to not believe would be to deceive yourself and deny what is real.

[bernee51]

Shouldn't it just be a matter of believing it because it is true,

Yaaaaay!
There is no point. It's just true. You believe it because to not believe would be to deceive yourself and deny what is real.

So how do you know its true a) for you and b) for the rest of the world.

[trencacloscas]

Our problem is not with Jesus and his loving teachings, its with Paul and the religion he created ABOUT Jesus! Had he continued the teaching of the Master, and the religion Jesus himself practiced, we would not have all the confusion over guilt and fear...

Only two words: "eternal damnation".
Those surely cancels any loving teachings...