Immortality of the soul

[Xidorn]

Do we as humans posses an immortal soul as believed by most people? I am of the view that we do not.

[Baz]

I dont agree with the spirit and body machining a sole is it not body and soul project a spirit?

[Baz]

Ive posted instead of previewed and now cant edit.
Well never mind what I wanted to say was; I dont agree with the spirit and body making a sole. Is it not body and soul that project a spirit?

[johnwscott]

Some of the scriptures about the soul that Jehovah's Witnesses refer to are,

Genesis 2:17 - 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.

Eccl 9:5 "For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten."

11 He said these things, and after this he said to them: Laza-rus our friend has gone to rest, but I am journeying there to awaken him from sleep. 25 "Jesus said to her: I am the resurrection and the life. He that exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life."

The resurrection and the teaching of the immortal soul are separate and distinct, not totally in harmony.

Also, Rom 6:23,
23 "For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord."

The wages of sin is death, not eternal torment.

To Adam God said, "to dust you are and to dust you will return." If anyone deserved eternal torment, the one who committed the original sin did. Adam only returned to the dust. The soul of Adam, then was mortal, not immortal. At death he simply died.

jw-media website:
The dead are conscious of nothing. In the future, God through Jesus will resurrect the dead."Genesis 2:17; Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10; John 11:25; Romans 5:12.
http://www.jw-media.org/aboutjw/article31.htm#sin

[JehovahsWitness]

It appears that my understanding of the sole is similar to the explanations given so far but I think the descriptions given for the spirit are somewhat different, my understanding is that the spirit of something ( In my view anyway) doesnt need to be attached to or part of the thing or person that it originates from. A persons spirit is immortal (this could be dependent of your view of God or at least the possibility of eternal consciousness in some form) once formed it is more like an idea. How can an idea die?

I don't know where you get your ideas from but it seems to me that you believe exactly what 99% of religious people believe on this matter (in my opinion wrongly) the only difference is you have replaced the term "sole [spelt s-o-u-l]" with "spirit". In other words you DO believe in the immortality of the the soul, but you just call it "a spirit". Other than that you might as well be Catholic (no offense to you or our Catholic friends).

Anyway all I can do is outline for you what THE BIBLE says on his matter.

a) that the word "soul" is another word for "person" it means the same thing.
b) the the "spirit" is not an invisible part of a human that escapes his body at death but is simply the life force that comes from God.
c) that at death a person ceases totally to exist, NOTHING survives of that person, no consciousness, not invisible part (spirit/soul/whatever).
d) that "death" does NOT mean just death of the body (physical death) and you continue to exist in some form elsewhere: When a person dies ALL "parts" of them they cease to exist. There is nothing left.

That is the bible view.

here are some links.Online Audio Lessons
"What happens when we die?"

[Baz]

I don't know where you get your ideas from but it seems to me that you believe exactly what 99% of religious people believe on this matter (in my opinion wrongly) the only difference is you have replaced the term "sole [spelt s-o-u-l]" with "spirit". In other words you DO believe in the immortality of the the soul, but you just call it "a spirit". Other than that you might as well be Catholic (no offense to you or our Catholic friends).

Well I think I get my ideas from interaction with other people like yourself and the world around me!
As for my personal interpretation of spirit and soul (thanks for the heads up on spelling) I defiantly do not think of them as the same or in any way interchangeable.
I would describe my soul as what makes me who I am, my consciousness if you like, lives with me dies with me. It seems this is a reasonably popular view.
My spirit on the other hand dose not die as it is not actually part of me, it is partly fashioned by me and reflects who I am in some ways but it belongs to everybody else. I see or more accurately feel the spirit of others. I could shear this experience or it could just be mine alone. Everything can have a spirit just as everything can be beautiful.
Not as popular a view in some camps I think.
Dont forget these are just my ideas its everybody elses thats really interesting to me.

[Slopeshoulder]

Jehovah's Witness,
Are you a Jehovah's Witness? I'm not biblical scholar, and have ZERO interest in parsing quotes, but are you not preaching the JH belief in soul sleeep? If so, as I understand it, this is a minority view held only by JH's and not other Christians. The rest of them affirm that when a person dies they are immediately living in heaven, hell, or purgatory if one is catholic.

So to the OP, yes from a christian perspective. No from a minority JH perspective. And who the hell knows from my perspetive. I think steklee gave the best answer.

[JehovahsWitness]

Dont forget these are just my ideas its everybody elses thats really interesting to me.

I think I understand what you're saying and I respect your being open to other people's views (that's a GOOD thing in my opinion). Still if you believe in a creator I'm sure you'd agree, HIS definition (since he made us) would ultimately be the one that would be accurate.

If you ask 10 different people what happens at death (or in line with the TP) "what is the soul? is it immortal?" you may well get 10 different answers, in the end if we are interested in what REALLY happens, then we do well to enquire of the one source that can give the an accurate answer - he who made us.

Respect,
JW

[JehovahsWitness]

Jehovah's Witness [...] preaching the JH belief in soul sleeep?

Does answering a post constitute "preaching"? If so, what are YOU preaching, since you have answered a post?

I understand [the Jehovah's Witness belief], this is a minority view held only by JH's and not other Christians.

And your point being?

The rest of them affirm that when a person dies they are immediately living in heaven, hell, or purgatory if one is catholic.

This is accurate, most nominal christians believe in the immortality of the soul? Were you wanting to make a point about this or were you just pointing out the numbers?

[Slopeshoulder]

Jehovah's Witness [...] preaching the JH belief in soul sleeep?

Does answering a post constitute "preaching"? If so, what are YOU preaching, since you have answered a post?

Sorry, I should have said expounding, not peaching. I didn't mean it as a perjorative.

I understand [the Jehovah's Witness belief], this is a minority view held only by JH's and not other Christians.

And your point being?

Just asking for clarification from you and clarifying for readers who might confuse your (otherwise valid) views with majority christianity per se. I'm adding the caveat I think you left out. As a fellow fringer myself, I think this is worth noting. I think it is useful to say. from my tradition or IMO the bible says XYZ" rathet than "the bible says XYZ." I suppose it was the (preachy?) certainty that I responded to.

The rest of them affirm that when a person dies they are immediately living in heaven, hell, or purgatory if one is catholic.

This is accurate, most nominal christians believe in the immortality of the soul? Were you wanting to make a point about this or were you just pointing out the numbers?

Just the numbers, and trying to call into question any suggestion that your exegesis, while thoughtful and informed and sincerely presented, represents the beliefs 99.9% of Christians, nominal or otherwise, given the apparent simplicity in the OP. More than that, I wanted to locate your position on a map, for my benefit and the benefit of readers. It's just that as a lifelong and variously nominal, devout, scholarly, and hyphenated christian over the years, I thought I recognized your position as that of a tiny and specific minority, what other have called a fringe cult (not me though; a great friend is a JH, as is a neighbor I am fond of). I will say that I have never seen these views so thoughtfully articulated.
I have not formed a judgment on the topic, and am unlikley to. But I am interested in all takes on the matter.
We cool?

[JehovahsWitness]

Just asking for clarification from you

Fair enough, I'm not sure what clarification I need to make if we are just talking about numbers. Personally I don't see that the numbers are relevant but, Yes, as my handle suggests this view is one held by Jehovah's Witnesses. There are 7 million JW and about 2.1 billion Christians on the planet the majority of whom would most heartily DISagree with the Jehovah's Witness view.

Just the numbers, and trying to call into question any suggestion that your exegesis, [...] presented, represents the beliefs 99.9% of Christians

Was there anything I said that implied my view was a "majority view" or called on the accepted consensus?

I wanted to locate your position on a map, for my benefit and the benefit of readers.

Again, fair enough.

will say that I have never seen these views so thoughtfully articulated.

I thank you most kindly. I took no offense I was just looking to clarify the relevance of the points made.