Immortality of the soul

[Xidorn]

Do we as humans posses an immortal soul as believed by most people? I am of the view that we do not.

[myth-one.com]

Do we as humans posses an immortal soul as believed by most people?

No! When Satan told Eve, "Ye shall not surely die," he lied. Since then, most of mankind has an innate belief that some part of them, their "spirit or soul" lives forever. We believe Satan's lie.

This initial false theology seals the remainder of the Bible from man's understanding " as the rest of the Bible must be incorrectly "interpreted" to support this original error! With a little assistance from Satan, man effectively seals the scriptures from his own understanding!

Virtually all other Christian myths and misinterpretations of the Bible are then created to support this immortal soul myth, the lie of Satan that you will live forever. Therefore, I call the immortal soul myth, Myth-One.

I'm not biblical scholar, and have ZERO interest in parsing quotes, but are you not preaching the JH belief in soul sleeep? If so, as I understand it, this is a minority view held only by JH's and not other Christians.

Ok, perhaps as you say, the Jehovah's Witness do not believe the immortal soul lie and can understand the scriptures. Good for them!

The rest of them affirm that when a person dies they are immediately living in heaven, hell, or purgatory if one is catholic.

This affirmation is forced upon them. If an immortal soul is a birthright of all mankind, then the wages of sin cannot be death as the Bible states, because we never die. Since we live forever, we must reside somewhere. Christians proclaim they spend eternity in heaven while condemning all others to eternal torture in hellfire. What a wonderful "Christian" concept! A concept totally opposed to what the scriptures state!

The scriptures cannot be understood by anyone believing that man is born with an immortal soul. The Bible repeatedly states that man is not immortal. Everlasting life is a gift and reward.

We are not born with our reward!

[mataeux]

Funny how some bibles translate the hebrew word 'nephesh' as 'soul' or 'life' as it suits the publisher's own beliefs. You would think that people would have reasoned, "Hey, we really should have two words to distinguish 'nephesh(soul)' from 'nephesh(life)' because it is critical!"

However when the greek language came along, bible writers used ONE word 'psykhe'. Yet those modern translators translate it as 'soul' or 'life' as it suits their beliefs.

The New World Translation is the only bible that consistently renders these two ancient words "soul" because, in fact, men before the influence of Plato understood the soul to be mortal, synonymous with one's life.

see GEN12:13 DEU12:23 1KI17:21,19:4 PSA33:19,49:8-15,72:13+ JER38:16+ EZE18:4 for just a fraction of the scriptures showing us the mortality of 'nephesh'

see 1COR15:45 PHI2:30 REV18:13 for a few 'psykhe' examples.

a form of the word 'psykhe' is used at 1COR2:14 and JAMES3:15 indicating that the soul IS the physical body.

It seems the soul can refer to a thing with a body AND breath of life AND a life record. Our life record is what is posited by Jehovah, what is remembered or destroyed (as in MAT10:28).

Spiritual beings are also refered to as souls because they have a spiritual 'body' and a spiritual life.

Although we can be 'spiritual' - conscious of our spiritual need - we are physical and our soul is quite destructible.

[myth-one.com]

Funny how some bibles translate the hebrew word 'nephesh' as 'soul' or 'life' as it suits the publisher's own beliefs. You would think that people would have reasoned, "Hey, we really should have two words to distinguish 'nephesh(soul)' from 'nephesh(life)' because it is critical!"

However when the greek language came along, bible writers used ONE word 'psykhe'. Yet those modern translators translate it as 'soul' or 'life' as it suits their beliefs.

These same translators will probably agree that the scriptures are the inspired words of God. Yet in both the Old and New Testaments, God used one word to describe living breathing animals -- nephesh and psyche.

In their effort to improve on the inspired words of God, they decided to translate this one word into multiple words, thus distinguishing between man and animals by assigning immortality to man. If God used one word, should the translators use multiple words? Do they know more that God? They obviously believed this to be the case. They knew that man is born as an immortal spirit living within a physical body. How did they know this? Satan informed them and all men of this "fact" when he planted the seed that, "Ye shall not surely die."

If two words were required to differentiate between man and the other animals, God would have used two words!

Welcome Mataeux. Good Post!

[Baz]

Do we as humans posses an immortal soul as believed by most people? I am of the view that we do not.

Anybody know if there is any religion that allows for a mortal soul (Still my view)but with some other way of an individual gaining immortality? ( A possibility I wouldnt disagree with)
Because I want to join

[mataeux]

Anybody know if there is any religion that allows for a mortal soul (Still my view)but with some other way of an individual gaining immortality? ( A possibility I wouldnt disagree with)
Because I want to join

Jehovah's purpose (ISA 55:11, PS 115:16) is for righteous people to inherit the earth (PS 37:10,11) and Christ with his brothers to rule over it (MAT 19:28). He made Adam having everlasting life (GEN 2:7,16-17) So because Jehovah's purposes and promises are always fulfilled (ISA 14:24, GEN 1:28) We can look forward joyously to God's promised new world (ISA 65:17-19, 2PE 3:13, REV 21:3-4)

Jehovah's Witnesses will be glad to teach you without any obligation.

[myth-one.com]

Anybody know if there is any religion that allows for a mortal soul (Still my view)but with some other way of an individual gaining immortality? ( A possibility I wouldnt disagree with)
Because I want to join

That would be Christianity as described in the Bible. Man is born mortal but may gain immortality through believing in Jesus as his Savior. But no Church teaches this theology to my knowledge. Perhaps someone else knows of such a church, but I doubt it because even the Bible prophesies that the Church will fail.

Jehovah's purpose (ISA 55:11, PS 115:16) is for righteous people to inherit the earth (PS 37:10,11) and Christ with his brothers to rule over it (MAT 19:28). He made Adam having everlasting life (GEN 2:7,16-17) So because Jehovah's purposes and promises are always fulfilled (ISA 14:24, GEN 1:28) We can look forward joyously to God's promised new world (ISA 65:17-19, 2PE 3:13, REV 21:3-4)

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Eh, where do those verses state that Adam was made with everlasting life?

And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

930 is someless less than eternity!

[mataeux]

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Eh, where do those verses state that Adam was made with everlasting life?

by supposing, "what if Adam had not eaten from that tree?" or the converse of 2:17, "if you don't eat from that tree, you will not die."

Having access to the tree of life, they could live forever (GEN 3:22)

[myth-one.com]

Jehovah's purpose (ISA 55:11, PS 115:16) is for righteous people to inherit the earth (PS 37:10,11) and Christ with his brothers to rule over it (MAT 19:28). He made Adam having everlasting life (GEN 2:7,16-17) . . .

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Eh, where do those verses state that Adam was made with everlasting life?

by supposing, "what if Adam had not eaten from that tree?" or the converse of 2:17, "if you don't eat from that tree, you will not die."

If Jehovah made Adam having everlasting life, then Adam would be alive today!

But Adam is not alive today:

And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

Therefore, Jehovah did not make Adam to live forever.

Jehovah made Adam mortal and gave him the choice to live forever or die.

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, . . . (Deuteronomy 30:19)

Also, if God did make Adam to live forever forever, then God would know that Adam is immortal and His statement in Genesis 2:16-17 that Adam can die would have been a lie:

And the Lord God commanded the man saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. (Genesis 2:16-17)

No man is immortal until He partakes of the Tree of Life. Adam was separated from the Tree of Life to prevent him from living forever:

And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. (Genesis 3:22-23)

Believers will be allowed access to the The Tree of Life (Jesus):

To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. (Revelation 2:7)

(Seems that I cannot compose a short post -- Sorry.)

[mataeux]

i don't want to confuse 'immortality' by suggesting one with 'everlasting life' cannot be destroyed. We may have the provision of everlasting life revoked, as happened to Adam. Having everlasting life doesn't necessarily mean immortal. The scriptures stand - GEN 2:17 (and it's converse implication) GEN 3:22. Thus establishing God's purpose for mankind.

If Jehovah made Adam having everlasting life, then Adam would be alive today! But Adam is not alive today:
Therefore, Jehovah did not make Adam to live forever.

allow me adjust this logic:
If Jehovah made Adam having (the provision of) everlasting life AND Adam had not rebelled, then Adam would be alive today! But Adam is not alive today because he rebelled and lost the provision: Indeed, Jehovah did make Adam (for the purpose of and with the provision) to live forever. GEN 1:26-28,31

Jehovah made Adam mortal and gave him the choice to live forever or die.

I agree with that to the extent that 'mortal' means 'destructible'. I don't know enough to say whether Adam's body intrinsically did not age (in which case the 'provision' safeguarded him from tragedy and, later, death was bestowed by his genetic code being altered in some just way after the rebellion) OR Adam's body naturally aged (in which case the 'provision' safeguarded him from tragedy and reversed his age periodically and, later, death was bestowed by revoking the provision)

maybe we agree but are using different terms. Jehovah's Witnesses are keen on letting the scriptures stand for themselves and allowing the student to decide. I'm content with the dozen or so citations. sorry for any confusion.

[myth-one.com]

i don't want to confuse 'immortality' by suggesting one with 'everlasting life' cannot be destroyed.

They are one and the same. If someone is immortal, they have everlasting life. If someone has everlasting life, they are immortal. It's not confusing.

We may have the provision of everlasting life revoked, as happened to Adam.

It gets a little complicated here as Adam is not really dead by Gods standards. Death truly occurs at the second death after the judgment when one is cast into hell. So that Adam, Moses, David, and all mankind who have "died" their first death are said to sleeping, slumbering, or resting in the Bible " awaiting their resurrection. Since all will live again, they are not truly dead now. The second death is permanent and final and is when the possibility of "everlasting life is revoked" as you say.

So Adam will be resurrected at the second resurrection and choose to accept or reject Jesus at that time. He will either eat of the Tree of Life and gain everlasting life or be cast into hell and suffer his second and eternal death.

If Adam eats of the tree of life, he will be born again as a spirit with everlasting life at that time. By definition, once one gains everlasting life, it cannot be revoked. It is everlasting.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

If after believers are granted everlasting life they have to worry forever that they may "have the provision of everlasting life revoked," then God cannot be trusted to fulfill His promises. So the term "everlasting life" used in the scripture is equivalent to immortality.

Jehovah's Witnesses are keen on letting the scriptures stand for themselves . . .

I hope so, but . . . If God promises us eternal life, but eternal life can be revoked, then didn't God break His promise?

And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. (I John 2:25)

Who can we trust to keep a promise if not God? I probably just misunderstood your point.

Only spiritual beings have everlasting life. Adam was not made to be everlasting -- he was made physical. He was made with the possibility of attaining everlasting life. You have not presented any scripture which proves otherwise.

But Adam has not had the "provision of everlasting life revoked." It was never yet granted. When and if everlasting life is granted to Adam, it can never be revoked " even by God. Adam could have eaten freely from the Tree of Life in the garden and gained everlasting life " but he chose poorly.

Have a great day Mataeux -- enjoy discussing with you.