Moral Dilemma

[Dr.Physics]

You are correct in saying that the New Testament does not forbid slavery. It gives instructions to masters on how to be kind, loving and honest masters. Also, in, Philemon 1, when the slave Onesimus escaped from his master, Paul told him to return to him. Slaves and masters co-existed in the New Testament churches. It wasn't looked upon as an immoral practice if it was done lovingly. The Christian slaves of Christian masters were considered spiritual equals. If a slave had a loving master, he had security, food, clothing and shelter, and led a pretty decent life. The masters were not domineering taskmasters.

really????? lovingly slavery??? i hope this is a joke

My point in bringing this up is not to engage in a debate about whether or not we are called to be slaves of Christ. Rather, it is to show that slavery, from a New Testament perspective, is not an immoral thing, so it shouldn't be used as an example attempting to show Christians that their morality is not derived from the Bible. Just because something has been perverted and abused, as in slavery in relatively modern American history, doesn't mean that thing (anything), is immoral in its purest form.
To me, space aliens and slavery are not compelling examples that illustrate how Christians do not derive their base morality from the Bible.


Edit: I need to make it clear that I am not advocating slavery in this day and age. It was culturally acceptible in the New Testament era, and the Biblical guidelines for slavery were meant to conform to that practice.

well, this is exactly what i want to show people, how the bible not only is NOT the way to moral enlightenment, but the opposite. i honestly think it speaks for itself

what do you guys think the bible says/shows about slavery? is it right or wrong? does this moral judgement you make come from the bible, or are you using something outside of the bible to judge it?

[cnorman18]

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so you are saying forced labor and marriage is moral? youre crazy

[JehovahsWitness]

Can you cite a couple or few examples (even hypothetically) in which you think forced labor IS moral using your criteria?

Building of a new hospital or a dam in the face of national disaster and massive loss of life, projects in Africa that involve planting of trees and building of wells or schools ...

But again I see my own, or anybody's personal morality immateria to the point I think the poster you originally quoted was making, that of the Hebrew slave system in relation to other comparative systems at the time.

As for where I get my morals from, I get them from scripture and my own inner sense of what is right and proper. Personal morality is not really debatable imho, it is what it is. People can outline their beliefs (which to be fair I see you did ask for in your original post) but after that, its like asking if something tastes "too salty" to someone, just information on how others see the world. No useless by any means but very objective.

[Dr.Physics]

As for where I get my morals from, I get them from scripture...

no you dont, i argue

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... hp?t=14959

[stlekee]

Part of the problem is looking back to the past through our modern perspective. Things that were once considered OK are not OK today. Things that were once considered not OK are now considered OK. This is the result of progress, human advancement, whatever terms you wish to apply.

I think it helps to try and step out of our own culture and personal views and put ourselves in the shoes of our ancestors. It really was a totally different world 2000 -3000 years ago. It could almost seem like a different planet and a different species.

[Zzyzx]

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Can you cite a couple or few examples (even hypothetically) in which you think forced labor IS moral using your criteria?

Building of a new hospital or a dam in the face of national disaster

Are you saying that if people are not inclined to build a new hospital or dam for just compensation they can be "Morally" FORCED to do so because some "authority" decides that is necessary?

and massive loss of life, projects in Africa that involve planting of trees and building of wells or schools ...

Are you saying that those who refuse to plant trees, dig wells or build schools in Africa can be "Morally" FORCED to do so?

As for where I get my morals from, I get them from scripture and my own inner sense of what is right and proper.

Do you claim to follow ALL of scripture, or do you choose some parts to follow and others to ignore? Did your parents, friends and society influence your "inner sense of what is right and proper"?

Personal morality is not really debatable imho, it is what it is.

I agree -- and wonder why it becomes a topic in debate.