Is the Bible historically and scientifically accurate?

[McCulloch]

[The Bible] is historically and scientifically accurate.

The Bible contains at least one of each a historical and a scientific inaccuracy.

Is the Bible historically and scientifically accurate?

[McCulloch]

We could start with the talking snake. Snakes have no vocal cords and it they did, I doubt if they would be speaking perfect Hebrew.

Of course not. Do you think that God would have allowed the serpent to retain his vocal chords after that incident in the Garden?

[JoeyKnothead]

We could start with the talking snake. Snakes have no vocal cords and it they did, I doubt if they would be speaking perfect Hebrew.

Of course not. Do you think that God would have allowed the serpent to retain his vocal chords after that incident in the Garden?

When your god is "magical", vocal chords become irrelevant. They coulda talked with "magical invisible vocal chords", or he coulda completely removed these, though he did seem to mess up with incompletely removing some of 'em's legs / hips.

[Woland]

Hello JehovasWitness,

Here are some notions mentioned by McCulloch which are (I think) contained in the Bible and which you do not seem to have addressed:

-Demons cause disease.
-Faith cures disease.
-There was a global flood during human history and that an olive tree could survive such a flood.
-Birds created prior to land animals.
-Herod kills all boys in and around Bethlehem that are two years old and under.

Could you explain how these are reconcilable with historical/scientific knowledge?

If you can't, do you admit that they seem to contradict what we now know, and that these notions seem to closely resemble superstitious beliefs that would have been held by comparatively ignorant humans from times long past?

-Woland

[ChristShepherd]

Hand washing Mark chapter 7

The Pharisees and some of the scribes gathered around Him when they had come from Jerusalem,
and had seen that some of His disciples were eating their bread with impure hands, that is, unwashed.
For the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they carefully wash their hands, thus observing the traditions of the elders;
and when they come from the market place, they do not eat unless they cleanse themselves; and there are many other things which they have received in order to observe, such as the washing of cups and pitchers and copper pots.
The Pharisees and the scribes asked Him, "Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat their bread with unclean hands?"

Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him 'unclean.' "

Was this good advice that Jesus gave the crowd. For health reasons isnt it prudent to wash your hands, cups and pitchers and copper pots?

What do health professionals always tell you concerning how to avoid getting sick?
Wash your hands. Wash your hands before eating. My mother always insisted that I wash my hands when I came into the house, and before eating.

Is there Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him, as Jesus said? What about bacteria, viruses, and poisons, that may be on your hands, and may find their way into your mouth and make you sick, if you dont wash them off your hands?

Bad advice from Jesus

[bjs]

Here are some notions mentioned by McCulloch which are (I think) contained in the Bible and which you do not seem to have addressed:

-Demons cause disease.
-Faith cures disease.
-There was a global flood during human history and that an olive tree could survive such a flood.
-Birds created prior to land animals.
-Herod kills all boys in and around Bethlehem that are two years old and under.

Could you explain how these are reconcilable with historical/scientific knowledge?

Ill throw my two cents in on this one:

-Demons cause disease.
Where does the Bible teach this?

-Faith cures disease.
Several times in the Bible God cures a disease because of a persons faith. This takes us back to our underlying assumptions. If I believe that there is a God capable of overriding the laws of nature then this is fits within my understanding of the the world " if I believe that there is no God or that God is unable or unwilling to override the laws of nature then such healings are impossible.

-There was a global flood during human history and that an olive tree could survive such a flood.
There is an interesting debate on the interpretation of this scripture in the head-to-head section that is worth checking out.

-Birds created prior to land animals.
This requires a literal interpretation of the first chapter of Genesis, a view that is a shaky theological grounds to begin with.


-Herod kills all boys in and around Bethlehem that are two years old and under.
While there is no surviving extra-biblical record of this event, it is fitting with Herods character. Given the size of Bethlehem, it is reasonable to estimate that there were six or less male infants living there at any given time. Herod murdered many members of his own family, including his own son, wife and step-sons. Killing a half dozen infants would not break from what we know Herods character.

[bjs]

Hand washing Mark chapter 7

The Pharisees and some of the scribes gathered around Him when they had come from Jerusalem,
and had seen that some of His disciples were eating their bread with impure hands, that is, unwashed.
For the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they carefully wash their hands, thus observing the traditions of the elders;
and when they come from the market place, they do not eat unless they cleanse themselves; and there are many other things which they have received in order to observe, such as the washing of cups and pitchers and copper pots.
The Pharisees and the scribes asked Him, "Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat their bread with unclean hands?"

Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him 'unclean.' "

Was this good advice that Jesus gave the crowd. For health reasons isnt it prudent to wash your hands, cups and pitchers and copper pots?

What do health professionals always tell you concerning how to avoid getting sick?
Wash your hands. Wash your hands before eating. My mother always insisted that I wash my hands when I came into the house, and before eating.

Is there Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him, as Jesus said? What about bacteria, viruses, and poisons, that may be on your hands, and may find their way into your mouth and make you sick, if you dont wash them off your hands?

Bad advice from Jesus

This confuses physical cleanliness with spiritual cleanliness.

Jesus is not talking about being physically clean or healthy, but he is talking about being spiritually clean and healthy. Washing your hands cannot make you spiritually clean, just as there is no food (nothing outside of the body) that can make a person spiritually unclean.

Cleanliness of this kind comes from the heart. If a person is kind or cruel, honest or treacherous, selfish or selfless " these are kind of things that make that person clean or unclean.

[McCulloch]

-Demons cause disease.
Where does the Bible teach this?

[font=Georgia]When they came to the crowd, a man came up to Jesus, falling on his knees before Him and saying, "Lord, have mercy on my son, for he is a lunatic and is very ill; for he often falls into the fire and often into the water. I brought him to Your disciples, and they could not cure him."
And Jesus answered and said, "You unbelieving and perverted generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring him here to Me."
And Jesus rebuked him, and the demon came out of him, and the boy was cured at once.
Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, "Why could we not drive it out?"
And He said to them, "Because of the littleness of your faith; for truly I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you. But this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting."[/font]

[font=Georgia]Then a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute was brought to Jesus, and He healed him, so that the mute man spoke and saw. [/font]

-Faith cures disease.
Several times in the Bible God cures a disease because of a persons faith. This takes us back to our underlying assumptions. If I believe that there is a God capable of overriding the laws of nature then this is fits within my understanding of the the world " if I believe that there is no God or that God is unable or unwilling to override the laws of nature then such healings are impossible.

But if it is true that God does intervene on behalf of certain favored petitioners, then wouldn't you expect a statistically significant difference in the health of those who take advantage of this help as opposed to those of us who do not believe?

-Herod kills all boys in and around Bethlehem that are two years old and under.
While there is no surviving extra-biblical record of this event, it is fitting with Herods character. Given the size of Bethlehem, it is reasonable to estimate that there were six or less male infants living there at any given time. Herod murdered many members of his own family, including his own son, wife and step-sons. Killing a half dozen infants would not break from what we know Herods character.

Please show how you got to the estimate of six or less male children under two years of age in the village of Bethlehem. Remember to take into account the extra people in town, like Mary and Joseph, because of the census.

Herod had many enemies, some who missed no opportunity to blacken his name. Why would they miss this chance to record an atrocity?

[Woland]

Hello bjs,

-Faith cures disease.
Several times in the Bible God cures a disease because of a persons faith. This takes us back to our underlying assumptions. If I believe that there is a God capable of overriding the laws of nature then this is fits within my understanding of the the world " if I believe that there is no God or that God is unable or unwilling to override the laws of nature then such healings are impossible.

Are you saying that god cures people, and you believe this because you have faith?

The paragraph above seems abundantly circular to me.

"If I assume that there is an invisible bunny which causes people to fall off cliffs, then when people fall off cliffs and die, it fits PERFECTLY within my understanding of the world." All praise be to the almighty bunny.

Sorry, couldn't resist. Still, it's basically the same, and absolutely useless in determining which propositions have any merit to them. What I would like to see are reasons for your assumptions which will help determine whether or not they are reasonable, based on the empirical evidence at hand and what we see in the world (hint: people aren't cured of anything at a higher rate than others if they are Christians or if people pray for them, etc.). There doesn't seem to be any evidence suggesting that these assumptions, even though you may find them pleasant (I don't), are reasonable.

-There was a global flood during human history and that an olive tree could survive such a flood.
There is an interesting debate on the interpretation of this scripture in the head-to-head section that is worth checking out.

What do *you* believe? That the Bible doesn't present the story as if it were meant to be believed as being representative of actual events?

If so, why is this yet another "story" where the god of the Bible genocides countless infants without even giving them a chance (making a mockery out of the fallacious "notion" of "free will", by the way)?

What morals can possibly be gleaned from this story?

What sort of deity would want to be portrayed, even "metaphorically", as a mass murderer of innocent children (oh, someone just please tell me that the newborn children were already guilty)? Is this virtue? Is this absolute morality? I suppose I'm getting carried away, but I don't see how anyone could fail to acknowledge *the point*.

-Woland

[ChristShepherd]

Hand washing Mark chapter 7

The Pharisees and some of the scribes gathered around Him when they had come from Jerusalem,
and had seen that some of His disciples were eating their bread with impure hands, that is, unwashed.
For the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they carefully wash their hands, thus observing the traditions of the elders;
and when they come from the market place, they do not eat unless they cleanse themselves; and there are many other things which they have received in order to observe, such as the washing of cups and pitchers and copper pots.
The Pharisees and the scribes asked Him, "Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat their bread with unclean hands?"

Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him 'unclean.' "

Was this good advice that Jesus gave the crowd. For health reasons isnt it prudent to wash your hands, cups and pitchers and copper pots?

What do health professionals always tell you concerning how to avoid getting sick?
Wash your hands. Wash your hands before eating. My mother always insisted that I wash my hands when I came into the house, and before eating.

Is there Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him, as Jesus said? What about bacteria, viruses, and poisons, that may be on your hands, and may find their way into your mouth and make you sick, if you dont wash them off your hands?

Bad advice from Jesus

This confuses physical cleanliness with spiritual cleanliness.

Jesus is not talking about being physically clean or healthy, but he is talking about being spiritually clean and healthy. Washing your hands cannot make you spiritually clean, just as there is no food (nothing outside of the body) that can make a person spiritually unclean.

Cleanliness of this kind comes from the heart. If a person is kind or cruel, honest or treacherous, selfish or selfless " these are kind of things that make that person clean or unclean.

When the Apostles ate bread without washing their hands, was it spiritual or physical?
Your comment doesn't wash IMO

[Question Everything]

Is the Bible historically and scientifically accurate?

Let's not forget the Exodus of thousands of Israelites from Egypt who wandered the Sinai peninsula for 40 years, an event which would have left tons of archeological evidence such as latrines, human and animal bones, broken bits of pottery, all kinds of stuff.

Not only is there no historical record of the Exodus from Egyptian or other sources, but archeological evidence is missing as well. In fact, the best evidence points to them always living in the area, with a few migrating in from Egypt and other surrounding areas from time to time.