DEFINING Christianity: The Bottom Line.

[coolbluehair]

How does the Christian respond when asked the following:

What is the BOTTOM LINE of Christianity, i.e. the non-negotiable, undebatable, absolute must "believe/do" that DEFINES Christianity as distinct among belief systems? What is it that an individual must BELIEVE or DO that establishes him/her as a Christian -- or identifies him/her as non-Christian if he/she has NOT believed or done this thing? What is it?

I'm trying to find someone on this site who will address this question.

[coolbluehair]

Saskia said it best when she said "It's a mystery to me why one man can atone for the world, but that's how it goes".

At one point or another, the reasons may not satisfy you, but you'll have to decide for yourself if you'll be putting faith in the word.

- Jesus died on the cross and saved us from our sins.
- Everyone in the world is bound for hell, but by accepting Jesus as your savior, you have guaranteed your salvation.
- Belief, not good works, is all that matters.

If these statements are acceptable in your book, then I surmise you'll have no difficulty being Christian.

I don't figure that the God who created the known and as-yet unknown universe is an unreasonable God, so I am still asking you to base all this on something even marginally reasonable. You say, "It's a mystery to me why one man can atone for the world, but that's how it goes." According to who? Where do you get all this, about hell and damnation, blood sacrifices to appease God, etc.? That doesn't sound like a god of love, nor a god I would want to serve. So, help me out here. You say it's a mystery to you -- you admit that you don't really get it -- but you just accept it, anyway?

[fonso]

Saskia said it best when she said "It's a mystery to me why one man can atone for the world, but that's how it goes".

At one point or another, the reasons may not satisfy you, but you'll have to decide for yourself if you'll be putting faith in the word.

- Jesus died on the cross and saved us from our sins.
- Everyone in the world is bound for hell, but by accepting Jesus as your savior, you have guaranteed your salvation.
- Belief, not good works, is all that matters.

If these statements are acceptable in your book, then I surmise you'll have no difficulty being Christian.

I don't figure that the God who created the known and as-yet unknown universe is an unreasonable God, so I am still asking you to base all this on something even marginally reasonable. You say, "It's a mystery to me why one man can atone for the world, but that's how it goes." According to who? Where do you get all this, about hell and damnation, blood sacrifices to appease God, etc.? That doesn't sound like a god of love, nor a god I would want to serve. So, help me out here. You say it's a mystery to you -- you admit that you don't really get it -- but you just accept it, anyway?

I'm sorry I can't help you. It's because of the same reasons you're bringing up that I stopped being a Christian.

What I am saying is that after all the debating, you will still go back to those statements, and will have to decide whether or not you are willing to accept them.

In my case, I found them flawed and unacceptable. Though I am supposed to burn in hell for this 'deviation', the God in me tells me otherwise.

Try doing a search for agnostic_pilgrim 's posts. A lot of the issues I suspect you'd like to tackle have already been debated upon.

[fried beef sandwich]

Please forgive me, but I am now wondering how we suddenly went from the Christian religion to the Jewish religious system (?). You are saying that to be a Christian, which is not Jewish, you must believe in an ancient system of animal sacrifice that was part of an ancient Jewish belief system (am I to assume this killing of animals to appease God does not still go on today?). Now I am REALLY confused. Explain, please?

Hi coolbluehair. Did you get that name from Strongbad's Anime episode?

Anyway, to address what you are asking:

In Judaism (from which Christianity descended), one had to sacrifice animals to God as a "sin offering" to receive forgiveness for one's transgressions and wrongdoings. Modern-day Christian theology considers Jesus as "the ultimate, final sin offerings to end all sin offerings." As if God up and said, "Okay guys, forget the goats. Instead of killing goats, just accept Jesus and I'll forgive you."

As a side note, this bit of theology is Pauline theology (i.e., stuff from the writings of Paul). How Paul's version of Christianity differs from the original theologies of Jesus is another debate. And how Paul managed to influence Christianity and change it from something that was pretty much Just Another Branch of Judaism into something entirely different -- and how that something entirely different became modern-day Christianity -- is another story in and of itself.

[anontheist]

Just a note:

There is a Biblical Scholar named Bart D. Ehrman who wrote, Lost Scriptures: Books that Did Not Make It into the New Testament, Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew and The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture The Effect of Early Christological Controversies on the Text of the New Testament.

The first book is on the number of Gospels and Letters that were lost or hidden, (recently found) that suggest that "Christianity" as such was not as unified in the first century as is thought by many conservative scholars.

The second book is on the different kinds of "Christians" that we are now aware of during the first century. Some of which are nothing like the present examples of Christianity.

And the last book is on how the Early Church determined what Christianity was going to be like. By attempting to destroy some Gospels and letters to influence the look of Christian doctrine, based on preconceived beliefs.

The present New Testament was not a unified whole for several centuries. And the votes taken to determine which books were to be in the N. T. were not in anyway unanimous.

So, what people think is the bottom line in Christianity today, may not represent what was actually thought of in the first century of this growing religion. It could not be, there were too many.

Some references to patristics is only an example of those teaches that the Church gave approval of. Other "Church fathers'" letters were destroyed as heresy.

Ehrman is the Chair of the Department of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. With degrees from Wheaton College (B.A.) and Princeton Theological Seminary (M. Div. and Ph. D., magna cum laude), he taught at Rutgers for four years before moving to UNC in 1988. He is an authority on the early Church and the life of Jesus, He has appeared on A&E, The History Channel, CNN, and other television and radio shows. He is also the author of The New Testament: A Historical Introduction to the Early Christian Writings and Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millennium.

So, my point in bring this up is that Ehrman is not some crazy guy making up stuff. This is just an example of Modern Critical Biblical Scholarship.

anon

[otseng]

[You say, "It's a mystery to me why one man can atone for the world, but that's how it goes." According to who? Where do you get all this, about hell and damnation, blood sacrifices to appease God, etc.?

The primary source of Christian doctrine is the Bible.

How do we know that Jesus in the only way to God? It says so in the Bible.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Act 4:10-12 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, [even] by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Jesus can atone for the sins of the world not simply because he was a man. But, he was also fully God. He was the only one that was fully God and fully man. So, he uniquely qualifies to be the bridge between God and man.

John 10:30 I and [my] Father are one.

Phl 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth; And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

[Chancellor]

Please be patient with me about this. I was not raised under Christian influence, so I do not already know or take for granted the doctrines (major and minor) of the religion. I have read some of the Bible, done a bit of study there, so I may have some things to say or ask regarding what is in the Bible (the "Scriptures," as Christians refer to it). I am looking for Christians who are willing to explain this belief system to me by allowing me to ask the questions that seem most significant to me (an "unbeliever," as Christians would refer to me). So, I am asking people here to bear with me.

I will be honest, it has been hard for me to find Chritians who are willing to answer my questions patiently, not to mention with clarity. Most seem to respond as though I ought to already understand what they do, or just agree with certain statements or beliefs without question. They get frustrated when I ask for clarification about presuppositions or the language being used. That does not seem reasonable to me, and it has been frustrating. There are things about Christianity that do not make sense to me, and I am trying to locate someone who is willing (and able) to explain them to me.

Let me give you a more complete explanation than the others here are doing.

The most important question that you must answer is:

WHAT SHOULD I DO ABOUT JESUS CHRIST?

The teaching below was given during a Wednesday night Bible Study at my home church on the topic of evangelism. It gives a full explanation of the gospel message. At the end of the message, I will tell you what you must do to be saved.

WHAT IS THE GOSPEL?
Wednesday Night Bible Study
September 25, 2002


TEXTS:

“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen” (Matthew 28:19-20).

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned” (Mark 16:15-16).

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come” (Matthew 24:14).

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel” (Mark 1:14-15).

“And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem” (Luke 24:47)

“And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters” (Revelation 14:6-7).

In a couple of the recent Barnabas Group meetings on alternate Tuesdays, we’ve been going over Keith Green’s video teaching titled What’s Wrong With the Gospel?. So, far, we’ve gotten through most of the first half, covering what Keith Green called “the missing parts” meaning those things that have been removed from the modern gospel that is preached today. I say today because while the teaching is 20 years old, it is just as true today if not more so. Anyway, we’ve been going through this What’s Wrong With the Gospel?, the first part being the missing parts and the second part being “the added parts” meaning those things that the Church has added to replace the things that we’ve removed. But Russ raised the question that if we have the missing parts and the added parts, then are there parts that are neither missing nor added? Just what is the gospel?

To begin with, the English word gospel is from a Middle English word, gŏdspell which, in turn, is from the Old English gôdspel, originally meaning a good story or good news: it was intended as translation of the Latin evangelium, meaning tidings, but later by shortening of o it became gŏdspel as if to say God’s story. The Greek word translated into the English word “gospel” in the New Testament is euaggelion (yoo-ang-ghel'-ee-on), meaning a good message. But enough of the linguistics lesson: what does this mean?

Jesus preached the gospel. He preached the need to repent and believe the gospel. He commanded that his disciples preach the gospel and themselves make disciples. But what is this gospel, this good news? What is, taking from the Middle English, God’s story? To hear many today, one would think that the gospel is “God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life. All you have to do is accept him as your very own personal Lord and Savior” or “All you have to do is believe.” Then, of course, they lead a person in what has come to be called “the sinner’s prayer” as if repeating a prayer after someone is going to effect genuine repentance that was never even mentioned as being necessary in these particular deliveries of the gospel. I’ve heard some say that the gospel is simply the life, death, resurrection, and second coming of Christ. Well, that certainly is PART of God’s story and definitely better than this notion of accepting Jesus as our very own personal Lord and Savior. It is not the place of the inferior to accept the superior but, rather, the other way around. It is up to God to accept us if He so chooses. As we read in Acts 10:34-35, “Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.” You will not find one place in the word of God where it talks about us accepting God: it’s always Him accepting us. But, I’m getting ahead of myself here.

I’ve been going over Russ’ question since Sunday afternoon and, naturally, prayed about it because I needed to have this answered for myself as well. So, I’m just going to take it on faith that I heard what the Lord was saying and that this is going to answer Russ’ question: “What is the gospel?”

The gospel consists of several parts, subsequently building one upon another to create the whole of God’s story, the whole of the good news. Those parts are:

1. CREATION – “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth…” (Genesis 1:1). It all starts with God and His act of creation. In specific regard to humankind, God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth” (Genesis 1:26). But did God create humankind simply to have dominion over the rest of his earthly creation? No. We read in Revelation 4:10-11, “The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.” We were created, as was all of creation, to give God pleasure and for no other reason. King David asked in Psalm 8:4-5, “What is man, that thou art mindful of him? And the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.” Psalm 95:7 tells us, “For He is our God; and we are the people of His pasture, and the sheep of His hand.” And Psalm 100:3 tells us, “Know ye that the LORD He is God: it is He that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are His people, and the sheep of His pasture.”

2. RELATION – Genesis 3:8-9 tells us, “And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?” From the very beginning, God interacted with humankind in a direct way. He walked with that first couple in the Garden of Eden and spent time with them. There was a relationship there. But as we see in the next part, humankind lost that relationship with God.

3. HUMILIATION – I use this word in the sense of being humbled, being brought low. When the first human couple sinned that day in the Garden of Eden by eating the forbidden fruit, they put themselves and all of their posterity into a place where we could no longer interact with God as they were able to do before they sinned. And, so, they were cast out of the Garden of Eden and made to fend for themselves, farming the very ground from which Adam was formed. Sin became part of human nature and we desired to sin, desired to rebel against God. We read in Isaiah 59:2, “But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid His face from you, that He will not hear.” Psalm 14:2-3 tells us, “The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.” Humans became so evil during the almost 1000 years that Adam was alive that, within another thousand years after Adam’s physical death, God destroyed the world with a flood, saving only Noah and his family, along with seven of each “clean” animal and two of each “unclean” animal. It didn’t take long afterward for humankind to again rebel against God, this time by not spreading out over the whole earth to replenish it. Rather, they all stayed in one area. They decided that they wanted God to take notice of them and so they tried to build a tower that would reach Heaven. God got them to do what He originally told Noah and his family to do after the flood: spread out over the whole earth. He got them to do this by confusing their languages so that they couldn’t understand each other. But humanity continued to rebel against God and exchanged the truth of God’s existence and authority for idols – man-made gods manufactured from wood and clay and stone. Romans 1:18-23 tells us, “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.” This is humanity’s humiliation and the rest of Romans 1 shows the progression of sin that resulted from humanity’s first forays into idolatry and worshiping the creation rather than the Creator.

4. RECONCILIATION – Throughout human history, ever since that first sin in the Garden of Eden, God has worked to restore humanity to that interaction He had with the first two humans as He walked with them in the garden in the cool of the day. Humanity was created, after all, for His pleasure. His perfect justice demanded perfect obedience to His commands and swift, severe punishment for disobedience. His perfect justice demanded that such disobedience bring eternal death. As God said through the prophet Ezekiel, “The soul that sinneth, it shall die” (Ezekiel 18:20). We deserve punishment and that punishment awaits all who die rejecting God because their names are not written in the Lamb’s book of life. As Revelation 20:15 tells us, “And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” We do not seek to be reconciled to Him and even if one should happen to seek such reconciliation, we cannot be reconciled through anything that we do. Romans 3:11 tells us, quoting from the Old Testament that, “There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.” Because we cannot get to God on our own, He sought to satisfy the demands perfect justice because of our sinful state while, at the same time, reconciling humanity to Himself. As we’re told in Micah 7:18-19, “Who is a God like unto Thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? He retaineth not his anger forever, because He delighteth in mercy. He will turn again, He will have compassion upon us; He will subdue our iniquities; and Thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.” He gave the law through Moses to His covenant people Israel, who were supposed to be His witnesses on Earth. In Isaiah 43:10 the Lord tells Israel, “Ye are My witnesses, saith the LORD, and My servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He: before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after Me.” Paul asked in Romans 7:13-14, “Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.” We’re told in Hebrews 9:22 tells us, “And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.” So, God gave the Law of Moses to show us our sinful state and instituted the animal sacrifices for atonement but, as we’re told in Hebrews 10:1, “For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.” The whole system of sacrifices was but a shadow of what God would do to accomplish the reconciliation. As we read in Hebrews 10:3-6, “But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Wherefore when He cometh into the world, He saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.” Paul tells us in Romans 3:24-25, “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.” Going all the way back to Genesis 3:15, we see God’s promise of reconciliation. In Genesis 3:15, God tells us that the seed of the woman would bruise the serpent’s head. We know from the New Testament that the seed was Christ. Moses prophesied of Christ. Many of the Old Testament prophets prophesied of Christ. Daniel, in particular, says of Him in Daniel 9:26, “And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for Himself,” referring to part of the 70 weeks of years that have been determined for the remainder of Israel’s history up until the millennial reign. Because God delights in mercy, He has always made a way for reconciliation. As King David said in Psalm 103:10-11, “He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities. For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.” So, God sent His Son. As Isaiah prophesied, “Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel” (Isaiah 7:14) and “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given” (Isaiah 9:6). The angel told the devout fiancé of a young virgin named Mary, in Matthew 1:21, “And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.” The child was born in a stable in Bethlehem, in fulfillment of prophecy. He grew up. He embarked upon His ministry, preaching the gospel, healing the sick, casting out demons, and raising the dead. He selected 12 men who would carry on His ministry when He was gone. He told them that He would be crucified and that He would rise from the dead three days later. It was by this death that He would become the sacrifice that would bring about the atonement. We’re told in Matthew 26:28 about the Passover wine, “For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” As Peter tells us in 1 Peter 2:24 about Jesus, “Who His own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.” In this way, 2 Corinthians 5:19 tells us, “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.” We receive that reconciliation when we appropriate the atonement, the reconciliation, for ourselves. Jesus said in John 3:3 and 5, “Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God…Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” He promised in John 3:16, “that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” That word, believeth, is more than a simple intellectual acknowledgment of the truth. The Greek word means to have faith in and to put one’s trust in, that faith and trust being placed in Christ Himself. Remember Mark 1:15? In that passage Jesus said, “repent ye, and believe the gospel.” That word “repent” means a number of things. The Greek word means to think differently. In this case, we must think differently about God and where we stand with Him. We must agree with God about our sins, our sinful nature, the eternal punishment that we deserve, and the reconciliation to Him that He has provided. Now, we can only do this if we first have godly sorrow. Paul tells us in 2 Corinthians 7:10, “For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.” Godly sorrow is to feel the pain that our sins have caused God and to be saddened that our sins have caused Him such pain. It causes us to want to be reconciled to Him and makes us able to repent. As we repent, we are able to put our faith and trust in the gospel, as Jesus said to do in Mark 1:15 and, thereby, we receive the forgiveness of sin that Jesus’ sacrifice purchased for us, thereby being reconciled to God. We cannot earn such reconciliation. We don’t deserve such reconciliation. We deserve eternity in the lake of fire. It is entirely out of the kindness of God’s own heart that He makes such reconciliation possible – not because of anything that is in us but simply because He loves us and because He delights in mercy.

5. SALVATION – You might wonder why salvation would be a separate part of the gospel from reconciliation. It is separate because salvation is not simply what happens when we repent and believe the gospel. It is also a yet future event. When we go home to Heaven to be with Him, that is when we receive our salvation. When Paul said that we are saved by grace through faith, he was referring to that initial response to the gospel and, thus, it is spoken of in the present tense. Yet, he was also referring to our yet future salvation. He wrote of this specifically in Romans 5:10 where we read, “For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.” Jesus Himself spoke of a yet future salvation when He said in Matthew 10:22, “but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.” That same promise of future salvation is given, as Jesus had John write to the seven churches of Asia, “to him that overcometh” in the second and third chapters of Revelation. It is with that future promise in mind that Paul wrote in Philippians 2:12, “Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” We do this by being obedient to God and allowing Him through His Spirit that dwells within us to conform us to His image. As Paul said about the Christian in Romans 8:29, “For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.” This tells us that we become Jesus’ brethren as it is the Father who foreknew us and predestinated us to be conformed to the image of His Son. Now, before you decide that this is salvation by works, let me remind you that the scriptures contain passage after passage about being obedient to Him, about being conformed to His image, and about salvation being a yet future event. 1 John 2:4 tells us about that obedience, “He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” We were reconciled to Him when we repented and believed the gospel. We will be saved and finally get to be in His eternal presence, which is the ultimate reconciliation, when we go home to be with Him. Revelation 22:14 tells us, “Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.” God said in Revelation 21:7, “He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.” Everything else in between the reconciliation and the salvation is the process of overcoming, the process of conforming to His image, the process of working out our salvation with fear and trembling. That such salvation is made possible for us is entirely out of the kindness of God’s own heart. We don’t deserve it. We can never earn it. It is entirely because of His grace, His unmerited favor, that He even offers it to us.

That is the gospel, God’s story, and the good news. God created us in His image to bring Him pleasure. Screwtape wrote in C. S. Lewis’ The Screwtape Letters about God that, “He really does want to fill the universe with a lot of loathsome little replicas of Himself.” We rebelled against God and our sins have separated us from Him. We are incapable of being reconciled to Him through anything that we do on our own. He provided Himself as the blood sacrifice necessary to reconcile us to Himself so that, if we repent and believe the gospel, we can be reconciled to Him. He then works in us to conform us to His image so that, in the end, we will be saved from the eternal punishment that we deserve and will spend all of eternity with Him in Heaven. We don’t deserve any of what He has done, is doing, and will do for us. It is entirely out of the kindness of His own heart that He does all this because He delights in showing mercy.


Now you'll want to know how to be saved.

"And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel" (Mark 1:15).

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" (Acts 2:38; this is sometimes corrupted into "Repent, be baptized in the name of Jesus, receive the Holy Ghost, and you will be saved").

"And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord" (Acts 22:16).


1. You must first believe what God says about Himself and about you.

2. You must believe what God says about your sinful state and the eternal punishment that you deserve.

3. You must believe that there is nothing that you could ever do on your own to save yourself, and that salvation is offered as a free gift out of the kindness of God's own heart solely because He delights in showing mercy.

4. You must repent of your sins. This means not only that you agree with God about your sins but that you are genuinely sorry for the manner in which your sins have offended God and that you ask God's forgiveness for your sins and then forsake those sins -- never to return to them again.

5. You must be baptized by immersion in water for the remission of sins and such baptism must be done in the name (by the authority) of Jesus Christ. There are many who will tell you that this is not necessary but it is certainly of such importance that the Apostle Peter in Acts 10 commanded Cornelius and his household to be baptized. It is certainly of such importance that the Apostle Paul led the Philippian jailer to be baptized in the middle of the night -- he did not wait until the next morning.

6. "Go, and sin no more." This is what Jesus told the woman caught in the act of adultery. This is what He tells you.

[coolbluehair]

Hi coolbluehair. Did you get that name from Strongbad's Anime episode?

Absolutely! That episode is one of my favorites.

Jim

[coolbluehair]

Let me give you a more complete explanation than the others here are doing.

Okay, so what I see here is basically many (many!) varied references from the Christian Bible all knit together with presuppositions to form one very big bottom line presupposition about God, who *He* is, who Jesus is/was, and what the so-called "gospel" message is, etc., etc.

That's okay, but it begs critical analysis in every sentence. Unless, of course, you are suggesting that I am supposed to just accept the "authority of Scripture" without question so that all the presuppositions work and I reach the conclusion I am led into.

In addition, so many of the presuppositions have to do with what the passages mean, when in fact they can obviously be interpreted in more than one way. So, here again I think you are expecting me to not only believe in the "authority of Scripture" without question, but you are also asking me to accept your interpretations of that scripture, which are no doubt ultimately based on the credentials of some Bible scholar or scholars, and/or what has been accepted by others in the past.

Am I correct about that? So, my question would have to be, "Where does my own critical analysis of the belief statement come in?" Or does it?

CoolBlueHair

[otseng]

So, my question would have to be, "Where does my own critical analysis of the belief statement come in?" Or does it?

This entire forum has been created for the purpose of critical analysis of Christianity (and all aspects that it touches). Nobody is expected to believe anything just because the Bible says it (Christians excepted). Nobody is expected to believe something just because Dr I Nowit Hall says it is true. It is my firm believe that we can arrive at truth through logic and analysis. And if God is the truth, then our minds should be able to reach some satisfactory point where it can accept it.

So, you are encouraged to debate on anything about Christianity, the validity of the Bible, etc. People like you play a vital role on this forum. Without people here challenging Christianity, this forum would cease to fulfill it's purpose.

[coolbluehair]

So, you are encouraged to debate on anything about Christianity, the validity of the Bible, etc. People like you play a vital role on this forum. Without people here challenging Christianity, this forum would cease to fulfill it's purpose.

Okay, good. This being the case, I will address your explanation first by asking other Chrisitnas who are posting here if they agree with what you have said, if this is also their understanding of the central message of the Christian religion.

Without waiting around for that response, however, I will ask some questions about what you have posted here. Give me a moment to gather my thoughts and some notes.

I have a feeling this is going to get long and complicated. That by itself gives me pause, because it is my belief that whoever and whatever God might happen to be, and whatever the message of "truth" is, at bottom it must be simple and elegant; rooted in life, light and love, not fear; peaceful, not anxiety-producing; freeing, not frustrating; clear, not confusing; reasonable, not asking you to play tricks with reason or believe "just because," etc. So far this does not feel that way.

As I understand it, Christianity also discourages a person from believing in or following the leading of what they "feel," suggesting that we cannot trust our feelings, that our internal "feelings" must instead be subordinated to the text of the Bible, which is preeminent. Again, that doesn't "feel" right to me - especially if Christianity is, at the same time, telling me that God is Spirit and I am supposed to led and guided by the Holy Spirit. Isn't there a scripture somewhere that says, "The letter kills, but the spirit gives life"?

But THAT is getting way ahead of ourselves, to be sure.
I will go back to your initial post, your explanation of "the gospel."

CoolBlueHair