Obama dispises liberty

[McCulloch]

Obama's election could be punishment for an evil nation.

Or a reward to a nation coming to its senses.

Only if you despise liberty and support socialism.

Does Obama despise liberty and support socialism? Is he one of those Godless communists?

[East of Eden]

I explained that, at least via example, in the very post that you are quoting here. Perhaps you missed it.

I didn't miss it, it didn't make any sense. The whole 'intentional' ruse is a distinction without a difference.

I agree, no one forced Obama to be there. He was there as I understand at the invitiation of Palmer.

However, not being forced is not the same as intentional. As in my example above, no one would be forcing you to come to my party. This does not mean you are intending to associate with grumpy in doing so.

When you go to Ayers house to kick off your politcal career, you are intending to do so. I am still waiting for an answer to this: If Bush started his political career at the home of an unrepentant abortion clinic bomber (let's say it happened when Bush was 8 to make it fair), would that be OK? Could he use the intentional/unintentional argument to get a pass? What's the difference?

You'll have to tell me who Mr. Kennedy is and what evidence you have for this assertion.

http://archive.chicagobreakingnews.com/ ... nnedy.html

Mr. Kennedy appears to be a far better judge of character than Obama.

What you do is, of course, your business.

Why should Obama be held accountable for what you would or would not do?

My above question on this pertains to the double standard - the left would not give a GOP candidate a pass if he was associated with an unrepentant terrorist.

I am not going to respond further to this until you nail down as 100% factual that Ayers is unrepentant about his violence

We've been over this many times on this thread:

"Much of the controversy about Ayers during the decade since 2000 stems from an interview he gave to The New York Times on the occasion of the memoir's publication.[31] The reporter quoted him as saying "I don't regret setting bombs" and "I feel we didn't do enough", and, when asked if he would "do it all again," as saying "I don't want to discount the possibility.".......... "We weren't terrorists," Ayers told an interviewer for the Chicago Tribune in 2001. "The reason we weren't terrorists is because we did not commit random acts of terror against people. Terrorism was what was being practiced in the countryside of Vietnam by the United States."

Wikipedia

and that he "declared war" on the U.S.

"In response to the death of Black Panther member Fred Hampton in December, 1969 during a police raid, on May 21, 1970 the Weather Underground issued a "Declaration of War against the United States government, using for the first time its new name, the "Weather Underground Organization" (WUO), adopting fake identities, and pursuing covert activities only. These initially included preparations for a bombing of a U.S. military non-commissioned officers' dance at Fort Dix, New Jersey in what Brian Flanagan said had been intended to be "the most horrific hit the United States government had ever suffered on its territory".

Wikipedia

I am tired of responding to skewed and leading questions when you will not provide evidence for your assertions and ignore contravening evidence to them.

Happy to fill in the blanks for you. The MSM sure hasn't done so in regard to this association of Obama.

To call Ayers Obama's friend is to torture the meaning of the word "friend" beyond recognition.

One could just as well say you and I are friends since we "associate" on this forum.

Baloney, we haven't been to each other's home.

Ayers quote of the day: "Larry Grathwohl, an undercover FBI agent who infiltrated The Weather Underground, claimed that Ayers wanted to overthrow the United States government. In an interview in January 2009, Grathwohl stated that:

"The thing the most bone chilling thing Bill Ayers said to me was that after the revolution succeeded and the government was overthrown, they believed they would have to eliminate 25 million Americans who would not conform to the new order."

I think I would be one of the 25 million.

[Grumpy]

East of Eden

[East of Eden]

He could have, I agree. However, he obviously would have been the only one. Are you aware of anyone else who made a point of avoiding appointments to boards, invitations to events, etc. simply on the basis that Ayers would be there.


If you cannot name one single person who HAS, then why is it reasonable to make an issue of the fact that Obama did not either.

"According to Ayers, his radical past occasionally affects him, as when, by his account, he was asked not to attend a progressive educators' conference in the fall of 2006 on the basis that the organizers did not want to risk an association with his past.[49] On January 18, 2009, on his way to speak about education reform at the Centre for Urban Schooling at the University of Toronto, he was refused admission to Canada when he arrived at the Toronto City Centre Airport."

Wikipedia

[Grumpy]

East of Eden

"According to Ayers, his radical past occasionally affects him, as when, by his account, he was asked not to attend a progressive educators' conference in the fall of 2006 on the basis that the organizers did not want to risk an association with his past.[49] On January 18, 2009, on his way to speak about education reform at the Centre for Urban Schooling at the University of Toronto, he was refused admission to Canada when he arrived at the Toronto City Centre Airport."

Our actions and words do have consequences, I really don't have any simpathy for Ayers. The war was wrong, the behavior of our government agencies was wrong at times, the war protesters were for the most part peaceful. None of this justified what Ayers was involved in, as he himself admits. But then, Scooter Libby gets none of my simpathy either, though he was a total scapegoat(heck, Cheney shot a man and the guy appologized to him).

The point is not who or what Ayes is or was, as it is totally irrelivant to what Obama was and is. The connections conservatives are trying to make would apply to everyone, as we all have this level of interactions with rapists, murderers, theives, sociopaths and other undesireables like coke dealers, pot smokers and drunk drivers(W was not always "Presidential Material"). Such tenuous "guilt by six degrees of seperation" is bogus.

Grumpy

[East of Eden]

East of Eden

"According to Ayers, his radical past occasionally affects him, as when, by his account, he was asked not to attend a progressive educators' conference in the fall of 2006 on the basis that the organizers did not want to risk an association with his past.[49] On January 18, 2009, on his way to speak about education reform at the Centre for Urban Schooling at the University of Toronto, he was refused admission to Canada when he arrived at the Toronto City Centre Airport."

Our actions and words do have consequences, I really don't have any simpathy for Ayers. The war was wrong, the behavior of our government agencies was wrong at times, the war protesters were for the most part peaceful. None of this justified what Ayers was involved in, as he himself admits. But then, Scooter Libby gets none of my simpathy either, though he was a total scapegoat(heck, Cheney shot a man and the guy appologized to him).

The point is not who or what Ayes is or was, as it is totally irrelivant to what Obama was and is. The connections conservatives are trying to make would apply to everyone, as we all have this level of interactions with rapists, murderers, theives, sociopaths and other undesireables like coke dealers, pot smokers and drunk drivers(W was not always "Presidential Material"). Such tenuous "guilt by six degrees of seperation" is bogus.

Grumpy

Grumpy, I think we've both said our piece on this, and obviously disagree.

[Wyvern]

It's not guilt by association, it's association.

If it was just an association you would have not even have mentioned it. What you are doing is bringing up Ayers terrorist associations from nearly forty years ago and trying to tie in Obama some how. But you are correct all you have shown is that there was an association between the two nothing more. This all makes me wonder why you keep bringing it up if all you are doing is showing an association. But the truth is you have been trying to show that because Ayers WAS a radical and Obama had an association with him that Obama must also be a radical, this is known as guilt by association. Just because you deny it doesn't make it true.

Does working off the playbook of the guy who wrote 'Rules for Radicals' make you a radical? I vote yes.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/09/ ... _rule.html

Considering you have said you think every democrat is a radical this isn't surprising. Use a thinner brush and what you say might actually have some meaning, but since you insist on using the broadest brush possible your attempts to demonize a large group of people in this way is essentially meaningless.

This reply of yours is yet another example where you give what you consider indicators of radical behavior while at the same time never actually saying specifically what you think is so radical about Obama. You couldn't or wouldn't provide any examples of what you think is so radical about the health care reform bill and instead went back to giving what you think are indicators. You keep throwing around the term radical but when asked to actually provide examples of radicalness you have failed every time. Sure you have proven Ayers past radical activities which youhave been trying to attach to Obama but in fact have not shown a single radical act by the president.

[Grumpy]

East of Eden

Grumpy, I think we've both said our piece on this, and obviously disagree.

Yes, but if you think that means you can go on spreading lies and hate unchallenged, think again. Don't like that? Then don't do it.

Grumpy

[otseng]

East of Eden

Grumpy, I think we've both said our piece on this, and obviously disagree.

Yes, but if you think that means you can go on spreading lies and hate unchallenged, think again. Don't like that? Then don't do it.

Grumpy

Moderator intervention

Please avoid insinuating that others are lying or spreading hate. You are free to present counter-evidence and to correct information given. But, saying that others are lying and hateful crosses into being personal.

[micatala]

Obama's election could be punishment for an evil nation.

Or a reward to a nation coming to its senses.

Only if you despise liberty and support socialism.

Does Obama despise liberty and support socialism? Is he one of those Godless communists?

If Obama is a socialist, why is he suggesting closing down the government run lending institutions Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac?


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/1 ... 21824.html




I will once again say that if a person considers Obama a socialist based on his policies, then we have had a lot of socialist Presidents, including a lot of Republican ones.

[East of Eden]

Interesting article here on young Obama's radical views, complete with revolutionary lingo. Kind of like a more peacefull Bill Ayers. The author describes him as having not just socialist, but Marxist-Leninist views:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/02/ ... obama.html