Is Yoism more reasonable than theism?

[Question Everything]

Specifically, for all the demands I hear about evidencing theism round this site, people are vehemently resistant to naming a secular worldview (personal approach to life) that is evidenced. If no one will defend a worldview as passing the tests we're using to reject theism, why should I bother debating that person? I can stand around saying "you can't prove it", too. That gets us nowhere, and I'm uninterested in debating anyone who won't do more than that (no matter how great and brilliant he/she may be).
The problem is, that means I don't debate much anymore, because few are willing to do more than demand evidence. Few defend the idea that God doesn't exist. Few defend secular humanism. Few defend anything at all, meaning that we aren't getting a bit closer to understanding what's true.
For someone (such as myself) who is here trying to figure out what is true, this is a very big problem.


I'd say that this is one of the main reasons why theists don't hang around this site longer. It's definitely a big reason why I'm contemplating leaving. I don't care that some people out there don't agree with me on what constitutes evidence for God's existence. I feel that its there, and I'm tired of being asked to prove it to the incredulous.
If, however, those same incredulous people want to defend a position that succeeds where they say theism fails, I'm all ears. I'll even agree that theism isn't the best way to go if they can show me a more evidenced philosophy of life.

So, in my view, challenge all you want, but offer a better alternative to the thing you're challenging, or there's really no point.

Point well taken. Since atheism is the lack of a belief, it is easy for us atheists to fall into the trap of challenging what we are against, not what we are for.

I have an alternative to theism, "a more evidenced philosophy of life", and I consider it to be better than anything I have seen so far. It is called The Way of Yo.

Thus, we realize we must join together to act. And we realize that historically all human groups so joined in action have come together around a religious (or pseudo-religious) ideology. A shared religious belief system appears to be essential for coordinated human effort. Therefore, we must develop the first such shared, religious belief system:

that is not deluded, i.e., that is fully in sync with Reality, and

that allows for a healthy balance between the interests of the group and the integrity of individual aims, and

that promotes our sacred goals.
This belief system is Yoism.

Question for debate: Is Yoism more reasonable than theism?

[Question Everything]

Jester,

Dude!

What is the problem?

You wanted a "a more evidenced philosophy of life" than theism, and I presented one. IMHO, it blows the doors off any type of thesim I have encountered.

I really think it deserves a response.

[McCulloch]

Question Everything, while I agree with all of the aims outlined in Yoism, it seems to me to be more of a description of the attributes of an ideal belief system should have than an actual belief system, in and of itself.

[Question Everything]

Question Everything, while I agree with all of the aims outlined in Yoism, it seems to me to be more of a description of the attributes of an ideal belief system should have than an actual belief system, in and of itself.

Thank you for being the first person to debate Yoism with me.

How is this not an actual belief system?

The 7 Main Beliefs
These are the fundamental beliefs and values that"following The Way of Yo"the community has come to adopt. These beliefs form the current foundation for Yoan thought and practice. When we take a careful look at human history, we see that those societies whose core beliefs did not include most of these ideas and values were misguided, at best, and stagnant, unstable, suffering, or ill, at worst. To heal ourselves and our world we turn to these principles"the stronger our commitment to them, the stronger we are.

I.Yo - Yo is the name we give to the Divine Mystery that manifests as our world of experience. The Way of Yo is based on a religious meme system that is consistent with the world as it is directly experienced today by people everywhere.


II.Empiricism - Personal experience and intersubjective verification provide the foundation for belief. We reject truth based solely on authority. This is the basis for our faith in the Open Source Truth Process.


III.Community - Healthy communities are the foundation for emotional well being and spiritual fulfillment.


IV.Evolution - We turn to the theory of evolution, our only "scientific theory of creation," in order to develop a valid understanding of the forces that brought the human species into being, that "shaped" us into what we are. This enables us to see ourselves more clearly and to take actions that are consistent with the realities about who we are.


V.Democracy - Until a more effective and just model for organizing human affairs is demonstrated, Yoans participate in the attempt to develop democracy's untapped potential.


VI.Environmentalism - As traveling companions"hurtling through space inside a limited, closed ecosystem"we are all inter-dependent keepers of what Buckminster Fuller called "Spaceship Earth."


VII.Growth - We must all work to continually introduce others to these values and beliefs by engaging their minds and by building welcoming communities that truly transform our relationships and inspire others to do the same.

Together with The Five Pillars, The Ten Sacred Principles, The Open Source Truth Process, and creating Heaven on Earth, the Main Beliefs form the "5-10-Open-Heaven" core of Yoism.

[McCulloch]

What is outlined in the OP is not a belief system. If I were more energetic and inquisitive, and followed the link, I might have found out more. However, truth is truth regardless of the label given. As you may see below, I see many similarities with my own beliefs.

I might argue against their first fundamental belief. Yo is the name we give to the Divine Mystery. I don't think that a careful look at human history, would uncover any societies whose core beliefs did not include this name of the Divine Mystery are or were misguided, stagnant, unstable, suffering or ill.

The second belief, Empiricism, is echoed in Humanism, to which I fully agree.

Humanists believe that the solutions to the world's problems lie in human thought and action rather than divine intervention. Humanism advocates the application of the methods of science and free inquiry to the problems of human welfare. Humanism recognises that reliable knowledge of the world and ourselves arises through a continuing process. of observation, evaluation and revision. Humanism is undogmatic, imposing no creed upon its adherents. It is thus committed to education free from indoctrination.

The third, Community, is a bit of a motherhood statement. No one is against community. So without defining what makes healthy communities, this belief is without substance. Since Yoism is open source, perhaps it can borrow some principles from Humanism to give this belief substance. Amsterdam Declaration 2002

The fourth, Evolution, is agreed upon by all but a few.

The fifth, Democracy, is again echoed in Humanism.

Humanism aims at the fullest possible development of every human being. It holds that democracy and human development are matters of right. The principles of democracy and human rights can be applied to many human relationships and are not restricted to methods of government.

Environmentalism - Humanists have a duty of care to all of humanity including future generations. Humanists believe that morality is an intrinsic part of human nature based on understanding and a concern for others, needing no external sanction. Humanism ventures to build a world on the idea of the free person responsible to society, and recognises our dependence on and responsibility for the natural world.

[Question Everything]

What is outlined in the OP is not a belief system.

Well, OK, but it was referring to one. It is quite well developed.

If I were more energetic and inquisitive, and followed the link, I might have found out more.

Probably their biggest problem is that their website is a mess. However, if you dig you will find gold.

However, truth is truth regardless of the label given. As you may see below, I see many similarities with my own beliefs.

This is because they are trying to unite many beliefs.

Uniting Atheist, Skeptic, Agnostic, Buddhist, Pagan, Realist, Enlightenment, Humanist, Unitarian, Deist, Psychedelic, Transcendentalist, and Pantheist systems of belief to create the World's First Open Source, Rational Religion, the advent of Yoism marks a turning point in the history of Homo sapiens, the next stage in human development: Childhood's End.

I might argue against their first fundamental belief. Yo is the name we give to the Divine Mystery. I don't think that a careful look at human history, would uncover any societies whose core beliefs did not include this name of the Divine Mystery are or were misguided, stagnant, unstable, suffering or ill.

That is where the qualifying phrase "most of these ideas and values" comes in. Basically, the idea is we need to understand that we don't have all the answers, and there is a deep mystery to the universe.

A common complaint I get about humanism is that it does not leave any room for the mystical. Yoism strives to answer this.

The third, Community, is a bit of a motherhood statement. No one is against community. So without defining what makes healthy communities, this belief is without substance. Since Yoism is open source, perhaps it can borrow some principles from Humanism to give this belief substance. Amsterdam Declaration 2002

Each one of the beliefs has a link to a page explaining it. The Community one says:

Community

Community is the foundation for emotional well being and spiritual fulfillment.
Humans are profoundly social creatures who require a vital web of relatedness for psychological and emotional well-being, just as the human body requires oxygen for physical well-being. Because of this, Yoans work toward the creation of healthy communities.

One of the most important insights that evolution gives us is that, for our species, tribal communities were the context in which humans evolved. Our profound adaptations to such a living situation make some form of human community vital to our emotional well being. To be emotionally whole (spiritually fulfilled), and to achieve yos greatest potential, a person needs to be part of a group of people who live and/or work together, who share a commitment to each other's welfare, and who share common values, beliefs, and identity.

The absence of this kind of community in modern society is the root of many of the persisting social problems we face today. Without this community foundation, people weaken and fall victim to drugs, crime, mental illness, blind consumerism, and intense greed. Unfortunately, many people are so out of touch with their basic needs that they never recognize this hole in their lives.

From this understanding of the importance of community, we derive the sixth of our Ten Sacred Principles:

As profoundly social creatures, we can only achieve our potential when we have the option of participating in healthy, supportive, loving relationships and communities. That participating in the creation of such healthy communities is the sacred duty of all Yoans

[McCulloch]

I understand that we don't have all the answers but I don't necessarily agree that there is some deep mystery to the universe. I am not convinced that mysticism has value.

While I agree that humans are profoundly social creatures who require a vital web of relatedness for psychological and emotional well-being, I don't know that it leads to spiritual fulfillment. I don't know what spiritual fulfillment is. If it means emotional well-being, then I agree. Healthy communities are a really good idea. Is there anyone who disagrees? Now, if only we knew what it is that makes a healthy community, how to build one, how to maintain one and how to make an unhealthy community into a healthy one.

[sarabellum]

Hi....

Poked around a bit on the site...
Wish I had GPS as I would agree it was a mess as far as lay out goes....

My brain generally turns off when I hear words like "deep mystery to the universe." Not because there is no mystery but for all intents and purposes I don't know what that means....

I like the statements about grounding belief in reason and intellect...
How can the heart follow what the mind doubts?

The five pillars are interesting but some of the verbiage seems a bit out there for one (like me) who gets confused easily....

I'll check it out more as it is interesting...
(not much of a debate on my part.... )

[Question Everything]

I understand that we don't have all the answers but I don't necessarily agree that there is some deep mystery to the universe. I am not convinced that mysticism has value.

While I agree that humans are profoundly social creatures who require a vital web of relatedness for psychological and emotional well-being, I don't know that it leads to spiritual fulfillment. I don't know what spiritual fulfillment is. If it means emotional well-being, then I agree. Healthy communities are a really good idea. Is there anyone who disagrees? Now, if only we knew what it is that makes a healthy community, how to build one, how to maintain one and how to make an unhealthy community into a healthy one.

There is a deep mystery to the universe in the sense that we have no idea what happened before the "Big Bang" some 14 or so billion years ago, we don't understand what is happening at the quantum level, and we have no idea how this relates to relativity. There are certain numbers like the gravitational constant, the speed of light, masses of particles, etc. where we know the values and have measured them quite accurately, but we have no idea why they are what they are. For example, why is the speed of light 186,000 miles per second and not 176,000 miles per second or 196,000 miles per second? We don't know.

I am not convinced that mysticism has value either, but there are people who want it and reject humanism because it is too sterile for them. In my case I don't care, I just want us to start looking at the world realistically and solving the world's problems before one or more of them kicks us in the teeth real hard. To do this we will need a lot of people, far more than the current number of humanists. If that means getting mystical, I am OK with that as long as it does not contradict reality.

I would say that spiritual fulfillment is emotional well-being combined with good ethics such as being truthful and trustworthy.

[McCulloch]

To me there is a big difference between a whole bunch of things we don't understand and a deep mystery to the universe. But whatever turns your crank.

And if you find a way to market what is essentially humanism avoiding the stereotype of sterile philosophers, then more power to you. It is the message that is important, not the label. Let's look at the world's problems empirically without recourse to imagined deities or religious dogma.