The Day Islam Dies.

[Rant]

I am going to do a thread about the day Islam dies.. Just heads up your thoughts... will be done tomorrow... Jesus bless Israel is Gods Time line.

[Darias]

Wild claims ........ very intresting....... you dont even now what the claims are!

Saying that there will be a day when Islam dies when God crushes all the Muslim nations is an unsupported claim. In my opinion it is a very tall tale; and it is wrong to use ancient scripture to explain modern events, or advance extreme religious/political narratives.

[Rant]

Muslims share the same belief as Christians............ Thats a bald headed Lie..... yes M... believe in Jesus... ............. but only as a prophet.............. Christians believe Jesus AS God... The Father... The Son..... The Holy Ghost..... I am the way the truth and the Life no MAn comes onto the Father then by Me and the Blood of the Cross!

[Rant]

This is good things are going ...............we will get it on Tomorrow.... Jesus bless Israel is Gods time clock.

[Murad]

I am the way the truth and the Life no MAn comes onto to Father then by Me and the Blood of the Cross!

Can you find me that verse in the Bible?
Please find me the exact quote, including the bolded part.

We muslims also believe Jesus was "The way & the truth", just like Moses was "The way the Truth" in his time period.

[Rant]

Murad........... Is Jesus God?

[Rant]

YOU PLAY WITH WORDS.... BUT YOU WILL NEVER SAY jESUS WAS gOD AND CAME IN THE FLESH... JUST GAMES.... AND WORDS... WORDS ARE CHEAP BUT THE BLOOD ON THE CROSS WAS NOT!

[Rant]

tOMORROW THE dAY iSLAM DIES.... GET YOUR SEAT BELTS ON!

[Murad]

I have respect for your belief, even though i find many of its doctrines illogical.

You are making an argument from authority, just because Paul claimed "X" doesn't make "X" true.

The canonical Gospels were written 35-90 years after the dissapearance of Jesus, & they were not written by the disciples of Jesus (Mark, Matthew, Luke, John were pseudonyms), that is a traditional belief with no objective evidence.
Thus until you can prove the disciples themselves authored the Gospels, your belief is wishful thinking.

The Gospels were most likely written by historians that relied on "Oral Tradition" passed down from generations.

[Darias]

Not to mention muslims share the same belief as Christians that Jesus will have a second comming. We are brothers in faith, except the divinity of Jesus is what divided us.

1.) Yes, but I do not think Jesus is the Father. I do not think Jesus was God. However, I do not know if He was divine or not -- because in Christianity, even for non-Trinitarians, Christ plays many important roles, and is given honor by God.

I also do not know if Jesus is coming back or not. I understand Revelations as a book which has much more to do with the late 1st century than the early 21st.

I do not think Christ's "God-hood" or His alleged return are the most important factors of Christianity either. I think Christians should pay more attention to Christ's message and less attention to theologies and prophesies, etc.

Also Darias, i have a question for you, im sure its going to be more subjective than objective, since the Bible can be interpreted in numerous ways.

The Gospel of John tells us:

But when HE, the Spirit of truth, comes, HE will guide you into all truth. HE will not speak on his own; HE will speak only what HE hears, and HE will tell you what is yet to come.

A few observations can be made:
1) Do you know, this verse is the only verse in the entire bible that uses a pronoun 6 times. No other verse uses a pronoun this many times in a single verse.
With an unbiased view, do you agree at first glance it seems like this "Spirit of Truth" is a person?

2.) Verses were not added to the scriptures until the 16th century.

3.) It seems odd to refer to "spirit" and "truth" or "spirit of truth" as an actual person.

Let's look at it in context:

But now I am going to him who sent me, and none of you asks me, Where are you going? But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
_____
SOURCE

4.) Is Muhammad a spirit which convicts men of their sin of unbelief in Jesus and then glorifies him? If not then this would appear to be a case of selecting scriptures to affirm a continuation from Christianity to Islam. I understand the religious need to do it -- we Christians took all of the Jewish scriptures to interpret as our own, taking them out of context to try and prove that Jesus was foretold, etc.

1) Many Christians that assert this verse is referring to the "Holy Spirit" fail to realise that the prophecy clearly says that only if Jesus (pbuh) departs will the Comforter come.

When we read the New Testament, in numerous places we see that the Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus:
*In the Womb of Elizabeth
*When Jesus was being baptised
*John the Baptist was "Filled with the Holy Spirit"

5.) You have a point about God's presence already being on Earth, and being with Jesus Himself. However, it was never believed to be widely accessible. God's presence would be in temples or with prophets but never readily available in the hearts of believers. Other books in the new testament speak of the Holy Spirit being poured out upon Jews and Gentiles, so perhaps this verse does refer to the Holy Spirit.

There is as much evidence that this passage is referring to Muhammad as it is referring to Joseph Smith. It is a belief, but obviously many Christians would have a hard time accepting it.

[Murad]

Not to mention muslims share the same belief as Christians that Jesus will have a second comming. We are brothers in faith, except the divinity of Jesus is what divided us.

1.) Yes, but I do not think Jesus is the Father. I do not think Jesus was God. However, I do not know if He was divine or not -- because in Christianity, even for non-Trinitarians, Christ plays many important roles, and is given honor by God.

Yes he was given honor by God:

"Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know."

[Acts 2:22]

So by this criteria, are we to assume there have been other 'divine' prophets?

I also do not know if Jesus is coming back or not. I understand Revelations as a book which has much more to do with the late 1st century than the early 21st.

I do not think Christ's "God-hood" or His alleged return are the most important factors of Christianity either. I think Christians should pay more attention to Christ's message and less attention to theologies and prophesies, etc.

I agree.

Also Darias, i have a question for you, im sure its going to be more subjective than objective, since the Bible can be interpreted in numerous ways.

The Gospel of John tells us:

But when HE, the Spirit of truth, comes, HE will guide you into all truth. HE will not speak on his own; HE will speak only what HE hears, and HE will tell you what is yet to come.

A few observations can be made:
1) Do you know, this verse is the only verse in the entire bible that uses a pronoun 6 times. No other verse uses a pronoun this many times in a single verse.
With an unbiased view, do you agree at first glance it seems like this "Spirit of Truth" is a person?

2.) Verses were not added to the scriptures until the 16th century.

Like most(if not all) Christians claim, were the editors inspired by God or not?

3.) It seems odd to refer to "spirit" and "truth" or "spirit of truth" as an actual person.

Let's look at it in context:

But now I am going to him who sent me, and none of you asks me, Where are you going? But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
_____
SOURCE

4.) Is Muhammad a spirit which convicts men of their sin of unbelief in Jesus and then glorifies him? If not then this would appear to be a case of selecting scriptures to affirm a continuation from Christianity to Islam. I understand the religious need to do it -- we Christians took all of the Jewish scriptures to interpret as our own, taking them out of context to try and prove that Jesus was foretold, etc.

The context doesn't change Jesus' messege.
1) Is Muhammad a spirit which convicts men of their sin of unbelief in Jesus...
Absolutely, Islam is the only non-Christian religion that makes it an article of faith to believe in Jesus Christ. No muslim is a muslim without believing in Jesus Christ. Denying the messenger of God is seen as equivalent as denying God.

2) ...and then glorifies him
How is Jesus not glorified in the Quran? His name is only mentioned, what, 500% times more than Muhammad(pbuh).

3) You claim i took the verse out of context.
Ok then, YOU define the context for me? What is the context that i twisted?

This is not the only instance the Bible prophecies this "prophet" whom we muslims believe to be Muhammad.

The chief priests and Levites asked John the Baptist, "If you are not the Christ (Messiah), and not Elijah - are you THAT Prophet?"

Ok, this is where you tell me who this "Prophet" is.

If you don't know, i'll help you, the answer is found in Deuteronomy 18:18 where God is addressing the House of Israel:

I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.

Now you tell me. Who were the brothers of the house of Israel?
The Ishmaelites aka the arabs. Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) was arab.

1) Many Christians that assert this verse is referring to the "Holy Spirit" fail to realise that the prophecy clearly says that only if Jesus (pbuh) departs will the Comforter come.

When we read the New Testament, in numerous places we see that the Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus:
*In the Womb of Elizabeth
*When Jesus was being baptised
*John the Baptist was "Filled with the Holy Spirit"

5.) You have a point about God's presence already being on Earth, and being with Jesus Himself. However, it was never believed to be widely accessible. God's presence would be in temples or with prophets but never readily available in the hearts of believers. Other books in the new testament speak of the Holy Spirit being poured out upon Jews and Gentiles, so perhaps this verse does refer to the Holy Spirit.

You are totally missing the point & you have dodged the thrust of the argument.
Here is the Biblical verse again:

But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, THE COUNCELOR WILL NOT COME TO YOU; but if I go, I will send him to you.
(John 16:7)

The Question is:
* Was Jesus a lier? (God forbid)
If your answer is no & you accept the Bible as theologically authoritative, then you must accept the Holy Spirit cannot & was not the "Spirit of Truth".

There is as much evidence that this passage is referring to Muhammad as it is referring to Joseph Smith. It is a belief, but obviously many Christians would have a hard time accepting it.

"Ahmed" or "Muhammad" meaning "the one who praises" or "the praised one" is almost the translation of the Greek word Periclytos.

In the Gospel of John 14:16, 15:26, and 16:7. The word 'Comforter' is used in the English translation for the Greek word Paracletos which means advocate or a kind friend rather than a comforter.

Paracletos is the warped reading for Periclytos.
Jesus (pbuh) actually prophesied Ahmed by name.