Redemption

[QuestingTheLetum]

Hello

I have just joined here and was curious on something, Can any one truly be redeemed if they have sined? I my self have done allot of things in my short life that I believe I will never be redeemed for the first was loosing faith in god long ago. I just wanted to know what you all thought can a sinner be redeemed truly clean there soul or will they always be tainted by there doings?

[boy-ninja]

I beg to differ. Let me just address one of your examples of Jesus 'imperfectness'.

[font=Comic Sans MS]Hi i'm new here
dear friends

EXO 20:8, *Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work ....JOH 5:18, *Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath ....JOH 9:4, I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. ... 6 When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay ... 14 And it was the sabbath day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes.

"How well we know ,what profitable superstition this Fable of christ has been for us." Pope Leo X (1513-1521)[/SIZE]

There are actually many circumstances in the New Testament of Jesus doing what the pharisees defined as work. For instance, Jesus also defends his decidiscipleser they picked and ate grain on the Sabbath. (Matt. 12:1-8)

1At that time(A) Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry, and(B) they began to pluck heads of grain and to eat. 2But when the Pharisees saw it, they said to him,(C) "Look, your disciples are doing(D) what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath." 3He said to them, (E) "Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, and those who were with him: 4how he entered the house of God and ate(F) the bread of the Presence, which it was not lawful for him to eat nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests? 5Or have you not read(G) in the Law how on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath and are guiltless? 6I tell you,(H) something greater than the temple is here. 7And if you had known(I) what this means,(J) 'I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the guiltless. 8For(K) the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath."

Now I think to get to the heart of this we need to understand the purpose of the Sabbath. Now the Sabbath was a day in which the Israelites would stop what they were doing and remember God. The thing is that by the time of Jesus, the religious leaders had put all these boundaries on what 'work on the Sabbath' meant. All these restrictions meant that people spent all the time worrying about the restrictions and not remembering God.

Jesus quotes Hosea 6:6

6For(A) I desire steadfast love[a] and not sacrifice,
(B) the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.

I think this too is important in understanding the situation. I'd like to suggest that God didn't just want his people to have a day off work on the Sabbath, what he really wanted is for them to remember Him. He wasn't so concerned about how far they walked or the blood of animals but the heart of His people.

I think that Jesus' attacks on the Sabbath are ultimately attacking the tendtendencycare more about the law of God than God himself.

In another situation Jesus heals the withered hand of a man: (Luke 6:6-11)

6On another Sabbath,(A) he entered the synagogue(B) and was teaching, and a man was there whose right hand was withered. 7And the scribes and the Pharisees(C) watched him, to see whether he would heal on the Sabbath,(D) so that they might find a reason to accuse him. 8But(E) he knew their thoughts, and he said to the man with the withered hand, "Come and stand here." And he rose and stood there. 9And Jesus said to them, "I ask you,(F) is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do harm, to save life or to destroy it?" 10And(G) after looking around at them all he said to him, "Stretch out your hand." And(H) he did so, and his hand was restored. 11But they were filled with(I) fury and discussed with one another what they might do to Jesus.

You see the pharisees were so concerned about keeping the law of the Sabbath that they were ignoring God's compassionate and kind nature, the nature that would have his son heal a man with a bad hand.

I don't think that healing a man's eyes and another man's hands and eating on the Sabbath was sinning. If you look at it from another angle one might say that by Jesus not healing a man on the Sabbath might also be sinning and then, either way Jesus would have sinned. I think that Jesus acted in the right way in all these situations and every situation he was exposed to in his life.

Jesus' perfect nature is central to the redemption of all because if Jesus had sinned then the price of our sins would not have been paid (since God has a perfect standard) and we could not have redemption

[omniscience darkness]

Hi dear friends
Compliments of the day

well at first look you may not find my post has any thing to do with redemption of sins
but when you read to the about 'YHWH and Jesus can be tempted' and 'YHWH created evil'

i can't help to think about how is the redemption of sins is going to be make any difference ,when YHWH and Jesus are so saintly after all.

having said all the above posts ,

"I do not seek salvation from the consequences of sin, I seek to be redeemed from sin itself." -Gandhi

enjoy reading
best regards

[omniscience darkness]

[font=Comic Sans MS]Hi i'm new here
dear friends
Compliments of the day

why Jesus is not GOD ?

jesus is not perfect''[/font] below is the references

MAR 8:23 *And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. 24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
MAR 10:18, And Jesus said unto him, Why callest
thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. (YOUR reference)
HEB 5:8, Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered; 9 and when he was made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

2COR 5:21, For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

MAR 10:19, *Thou knowest the commandments, ... Honour thy father and mother.LUK 11:27, And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. 28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it. [SEE ALSO: MAT 12:46-50; JOH 2:3-4]

MAR 10:19, *Thou knowest the commandments, ... Do not steal....EXO 20:17, *Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, ... nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.MAT 21:2, *Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an *** tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me. 3 And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them.

EXO 20:8, *Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work ....JOH 5:18, *Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath ....JOH 9:4, I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. ... 6 When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay ... 14 And it was the sabbath day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes.

LEV 5:1, And if a soul sin, and hear the voice of swearing, and is a witness, whether he hath seen or known of it; if he do not utter it, then he shall bear his iniquity.MAT 27:13, *Then said Pilate unto him, Hearest thou not how many things they witness against thee? 14 And he answered him to never a word; insomuch that the governor marvelled greatly. [SEE ALSO: MAR 14:60-61]

DEU 6:5, *And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.MAR 15:34, *And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? [SEE ALSO: MAT 27:46]

DEU 6:13, *Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name.MAT 5:34, *But I say unto you, Swear not at all....

MAR 1:4, *John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. ... 9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.*
*If Jesus was without sin he had no need for "baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." - p.b.

YHWH can be tempted

DEU 6:16, Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.

JOB 2:3, And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

ACT 15:10, Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
[SEE ALSO: EXO 17:2; MAL 3:15; MAT 4:7]

plus the temptation story of Jesus already shows very explicitly that Jesus is not perfect.
PLease do compare with James 1:13 (Codex Sinacticus)

Jesus is not god

ISA 43:10, Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

MAR 6:1, And he went out from thence, and came into his own country; and his disciples follow him. ... 5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.

MAR 10:18, And Jesus said unto him,Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

JOH 14:28, Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

JOH 20:17, Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

1COR 15:25, For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. ... 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

COL 3:1, If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

1TIM 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

[SEE ALSO: ISA 45:5; MAT 20:23, 24:36, 27:46; MAR 16:19; LUK 2:52; JOH 5:19, 8:28,40, 16:28; ACT 2:22, 13:23, 17:30-31; ROM 1:3; 2TIM 2:8; HEB 1:1-3, 2:9-18; 1PET 3:21-22, REV 22:16.]

YHWH creates evil

ISA 45:7, I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil.* I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.

JER 18:11, *Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: ....

(SEE ALSO: GEN 3:1; JUDG 9:23; JOB 42:11; JER 18:11; EZE 20:25; AMO 3:6)

warmest regards
enjoy

"How well we know ,what profitable superstition this Fable of christ has been for us." Pope Leo X (1513-1521)[/SIZE]

What does this have to do with the OP?

Hi dear friends
Compliments of the day

well at first look you may not find my post has any thing to do with redemption of sins
but when you read to the about 'YHWH and Jesus can be tempted' and 'YHWH created evil'

i can't help to think about how is the redemption of sins is going to be make any difference ,when YHWH and Jesus are NOT saintly after all.

having said all the above posts ,

"I do not seek salvation from the consequences of sin, I seek to be redeemed from sin itself." -Gandhi

enjoy reading
best regards

[HeatherAnn]

I get what your asking about being redeemed and there is no sure way to know since most religion teaches that people should marry and that ones that don't are sinners....I have been told this many times and I'm aware that is the only reason some do marry because of what they are told and they don't want to be sinners meaning some of them don't marry for love.

Here's part of the point: 1 Corinthians 7:36-40
In the case of an engaged couple who have decided not to marry:if the man feels that he is not acting properly toward the girl and if his passions are too strong and he feels that they ought to marry,then they should get married,as he wants to.There is no sin in this.But if a man, without being forced to do so,has firmly made up his mind not marry,and if he has his will under complete control and has already decided in his own mind what to do-then he does well not to marry the girl.So the man who marries does well,but the one who doesn't marry does even better.
A married woman is not free as long as her husband lives;bit if her husband dies,then she is free to be married to any man she wishes,but only if he is a Christian.She will be happier,however,if she stays as she is.That is my opinion,and I think that I have God's Spirit.


Well to me that makes some things about the bible just alittle questionable just like sin...Also that's from a person opinion that thinks they have god's spirit and believe me I have the bible with this in it.
Just like the other passages and if I remember both people are suppose to be virgins when married yet if people that aren't as long as they marry there is no sin in that.
I think it's more if you redeem yourself from the sins that you did make by changing your life style for the better then you will be alright....Yes now that's my opinion but at this moment I do not think I have god's spirit.
I thought that might be of interest to know that some things known as sin can be questionable if it is really a sin or not.

[Cathar1950]

If you learn, mature and respond as if you learned something then you have grace enough to be redeemed. Being redeemed has many meanings and metaphors and hope it lasts through your lifetime..

[Spectre01101]

"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and He will live with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." He Who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then He said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true." He said to me, "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. He who overcomes will inherit all this and I will be his God, and he will be My son. But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars - their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."-Revelation 21:1, Holy Bible

For all have sinned and fall short to the glory of God, This occured the minute Satan and his angels rebelled, but God knew this and he is saying that through faith and his word is the reddemption of man. For we have all been born of this world through sin, but forwhoeverso beiieves and drinks the virtues of our Lord is saved.

[faith2]

In short, yes, every person can be redeemed. But that is not to say that all people will be. The Christian God is believes to be omniscient; therefore, God is aware of every person's actions, motives, and thoughts. If one has sinned and truly comes to an understanding of one's missteps, God will forgive them and they will be redeemed. If one has sinned and has since changed their way of life so that they are aware that what they have done was incorrect and has made a successful effort to change their ways, God will forgive them and the will be redeemed. However, if one has sinned and has no remorse and has not come to terms with their wrongdoings, they may no be redeemable by God.

[racerd3]

Hello, I am new to this and am doing this as part of a project for my Apologetics course. In regards to the subject topic, Everyone can be redeemed as God has revealed his righteousness to everyone Jesus Christ and the gift of salvation (see Romans). Everyone can come to know Christ, everyone can come to salvation. The problem is there are people who reject God and his gift of salvation for various reasons. God gives us all a chance to accept his salvation; it is the individual's choice to accept his gift.

[McCulloch]

Hello racerd3, I hope that you learn lots in your apologetics course. I did. Apologetics is a very important discipline. One which you cannot be too careful with. Make sure that they leave no stone unturned, cross all the t's and dot all the i's. Read my signature.

God, to my knowledge, has not revealed anything to me. I have not directly rejected God in any way. I have, however, rejected a whole lot of humans who claim to speak for God. I have tested their claims and found them wanting.

[Zuckie]

Hello everyone, can someone give me a reason why i should believe in 'god' anymore than i should believe in Santa clause or the easter bunny? I mean i'm not saying he's not real im just saying that if he is he's a :censored: .