Right now..Lawless Days of Prophecy?

[nzlaws]

International examples of corruption, crime, etc include Nations perceived to be the least corrupt - what conclusions do theological observers come to based upon this amateur observation of evidence?

And more importantly what is the likely response from organised religions to this reality or how much worse before evidence quantifies prophecy?

I have worked a little in the mental health arena some years ago and am aware of the number of confused individuals that believe that they are "Jesus" and seen the organised Christian response to this (medication) so the likelihood of the real "Christ" Identifying himself to any religion in real time would be rather slim.

I personally suspect that saving the Planet from humanities stupidity would be Christs first goal in serving God- "This would require a new form of Government"... if not the solution then I am open to being impressed- are there any other thoughts on another possible methodology for saving the environment for Life that God provided

I see concepts of ownership as being the biggest hurdle - but couldn't find anywhere in the bible where ownership was transferred to the occupants- be it the family of mankind or the other families- all of which are Gods Creations- "Domain over" does not suggest or confer Disposition but rather highlights the difference between Stewardship and Ownership- one of these concepts does not include Disposition...

Come on folk enlighten me- Where are religions going? over and over the same ground year after year? what is new on the horizon- communications have evolved in the last few years- from this we can grow (am I wrong?).

[salvation2011]

Actually, that phrase, "the harlot, babylon the great" was referring to Babylon, and likening it to a harlot.

And at this time the hebrews were working out their monotheism, claiming their god was better, and predicting and wishing that their god would destroy babylon, their captor, who they believed was whoring itself to a false, evil, or weaker god.

It had nothing to do with other religions today or what God will do to them in the future. What you say the bible says in not what the bible says but merely what a buncha folks have done with the bible.

The bible isn't a playbook for the future, and prophecy is speaking truth to power with insight and courage, not soothsaying. You've been misled by ignorami.

I don't suppose that you are assuming your particular interpretation of any one passage, verse or book is the only one possible or that, by simply stating your personal view, it becomes true. Biblical scholars have debated the identity of "Babylon the Great" for milleniums and your adding your opinion has zero impact on what the writer actually meant.

Indeed I have little regard for the popular concensus when it comes to biblical prophecy being more than capable of analysing its content myself, and less for an individual that fails give any evidence of a solid bibilcal knowledge. You are course welcome to state your opinion (as indeed have I) on the understanding that readers like myself will chose reject it as foundless opinion should they so chose. Unless you are in fact the Pope, in which case there may well be a few million Catholics that may give your opinion more than a passing glance.

Respect
JW

My point is that prophecy doesn't predict the future, the bible does not predict the destruction of other religons, and the harlot babylon does not refer to religions today.
It's a formally and elite educated opinion. That's not the same as base opinion (hold mirror).
Actually it's a summary of educated opinion outside fringe circles.
Test that opinion in any respected lab and get back to me.
I'll let readers make their own judgments.

Pride is getting in the way of you accepting this other posters opinion (made by JW). Kindly do as your sideline announces "accepts correction" located under your avatar. Just because you have a formal education in something does not give you permission to reject others opinions.

[salvation2011]

There were lawless days in prophecy written about in Hosea when God turned his back on His servant Israel for their lawless ways of not following commandments... whore can be seen as someone who is adulterous to God... the first 2 commandments speak to this and then refer readers to Dt 13...

Hosea 13 speaks to the death of Israel "Jacob" due to this lawlessness (ignoring the commandments)... Hosea 13:4 Yet I am the Lord thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no savior besides me.

The days of lawlessness can also be viewed as the new covenant that Christianity. They are a replacement for God's original commands and God has surely stated in Hosea and other places in the bible that He is the only Lord, God AND Savior. Basically, God was pissed off at/disappointed in His chosen people for forgetting Him and turning away from His commands. As a result in Hosea He turned away from them... which made some desperate for a messiah, christ, of any kind of good news.

Christianity is a great deception, as Jesus announced he came to pit man against his father, daughter against her mother and etc... defiling the sabbath, challenging those in command of the temples... all talked about in Rev 13 with the Beast of the sea... and Peter was blessed by Jesus and became the Beast of the earth who supported the Beast of the sea and spread the word to all to follow the first beast... he brought fire down from the heavens in Acts.... The great deception is that Christians believe that Jesus is God and they are following and worshipping Jesus who is actually preparing them for the harvest to be Gods servants....for they will be God's servants... if you read Revelations 22 3-4... and there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb (Israel/Jacob) shall be in it; and his servants (those who follow the beast of the sea) shall serve him. 4 And they (the servants shall see his face; and his name shall be in the foreheads. Refer back to Rev 14:14And I looked and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of Man, having on his head a golden crown and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15-20 talks of harvesting those who follow the beast, those who will be eternal servants to the Lord. It was Go'd last attempt to weed out the faithful from the unfaithful so He may know who was true to Him in His heart, following His commands... as staed in Rev 22:14... blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city... the ones who hold true to the commandments are blessed.

[Frankly]

I thought I would throw another couple of possibilities in here for interpreting scriptures intended as prophecy

Firstly I am presuming that the prophecy was intended to be relevant or reflect upon current times rather than when the actual prophecy was made- current times because of the extent of lawlessness - of course we have heaps of laws but it comes back to "are they honourable or being honoured"-corruption would suggest not.

1/ Babylon.....Babble on? Babel?- requires a bit of thought- The Dictionary provides some interesting possibilities here and as an example some Politicians Babble on and on and on- The media would possibly play a significant part here as to what actually flows out to the public

2/ Divers...... those who look into things in some depth- if the waters are somewhat murky (as these possibilities might seem to some)- we have at the least (perhaps) associated the "waters" to "schools of thought" or the flow of information and/or opinion

There are a few more possibilities such as where there is reference to more than one head on an Identity- this could be attributed to Social Structures that are perceived as Legal Identities which have several Directors or Heads.

Food for thought? worth digesting?

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[Critic]

Frankly - I have heard that reference to Constitutional Law before-several years ago there was a Madonna with a condon stretched over it exhibited in an Art Gallery- For several months there was an enormous outcry about this from Christians.
Until somebody offered to place a carrot jammed into a toilet role as a response to that Art titling it constitutional law (food for thought).
laughter replaced objections and people finally moved on past objects

As for this thread I suspect your answer is best found in your conclusion that waiting for god is the best you or others can expect from organized religions - Probably it would be best to step outside of their man made churches (confort zone)- into the garden where they might become a little closer to God (and "instead of making their own noise listen") - that "book of life" is possibly more likely to be found in the school of life than some enclosed pew- but who can say everyone is a critic eh




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[Adstar]

I take discussions on God very seriously. So don't tell me to "lighten up" I will not be lightening up. It's good that you are now speaking in plain English. Instead of putting on your bony Scot lampoon act. And don't try to say you where misunderstood with your Holy Spirit = Hard alcoholic spirits comparisons. You where attempting to be smart with both pathetic lines.

And again trusting in God to come and clean up the mess is Not equal to apathy.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I see that you would like to remain off topic and enter into a personal conflict or discuss yourself- but frankly your comments have become boring so I will liven things up to suit your taste for off topic hair pulling

Guess who started with the personal attacks. It is you sir who insinuated i was hitting the bottle. I correctly reveal your personal attacks and you call that a personal attack? No. it is revealing what is clearly seen.

Definition of Fiery Pitts of Hell
A Government employee gets the sack-
"Oh Hell" - "Ive been fired" -"that's the Pitts"

You might like to get puffed up about that as well?

So you take joy in provoking people. Looking for an angry reaction? Do you know how evil it is in the eyes of God to take pleasure in unrighteousness.

2 Thessalonians 2
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

I still maintain that waiting for God to clean up our messes is like having a 10 year old child waiting for daddy to wipe his bottom (this couldn't apply to you though as you have stated that you are 45 not 10)-

And i still maintain that believing that one can clean up the mess is the hight of self pride and vanity. There are lots of religions out there catering for the proud who think they can clean up their own mess by their vain works.

I suspect that a more Noble cause than waiting for God would be to serve God- a little hard to do if you only want to wait but each to her/his own free will on that one.

I serve God by giving people the message that God wants me to give. A message of Joy and Hope.

What do you reckon Jesus would think about having lots of different churches (tithing his followers?)

He would know none of them are His children. He would loathe them all.

fighting over which church is right and which church is wrong and even killing in his name?

Again He would know they where not His followers. As i do.

was he a warlord?- there you go adstar food for thought-

What and you think you have revealed something to me??? One who lampoons me and shows his lack of love has the hide to preach to me.

Code: Select all

And how about that Mass ritual some of them practice- is that not a primitive cannibal culture derivative -where followers get a Wee bit of blood and flesh?- almost like a metaphor icky event?

I do not take part in any communion practice.

But i see now one who pontificated in his former point how bad it is to say one church is true and another church is wrong and then goes about waving his proverbial finger at practices of some of them. Soooo who is a capitol hypocrite here?

Ah well enough Culture for today - good luck with your waiting- do waiters get payed? if so- in which current see

There are none so blind as those that cannot see.

Right back at you.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[FinalEnigma]

Some in this thread have suggested that man cannot defeat his own nature, or rise above it, and repair the world.

I agree that the world is in a sorry state, however, I cannot agree that the course of action is to wait for god to fix it.

Perhaps we cannot fix it. Perhaps the corruption is too deep, but we seem to have two choices here; we can sit and do nothing, or we can try, and perhaps in trying, we can make the world a slightly better place, and alleviate even just a little of the suffering.

There are many people in the world who are starving, and I cannot feed them all, but what if I fed one of them? Just one? Would this not be better than sitting on my hands and waiting for god to create utopia?

The view that you propose seems to me to be that, since we cannot fix all wrongs, we should not try to fix them. Taking this to the logical extremes, since doctors cannot cure all ills, does that mean that they should cure none? Should they wait for the rapture, and for utopia to come along and heal the sick?

I fail to understand this view - it seems to me to be blatantly irresponsible to do nothing when one is capable of giving aid - or at least trying.

[Adstar]

The view that you propose seems to me to be that, since we cannot fix all wrongs, we should not try to fix them.

No that has never been my view. That is a view that has been Projected upon me by another debater who uses the old tactic of making out that the other persons position is unreasonably extreme.

Taking this to the logical extremes,

My position has already been moved to an extreme by another poster. Your joining the straw man building and trying to make out my position is even more extreme than the other poster was trying to project.

since doctors cannot cure all ills, does that mean that they should cure none? Should they wait for the rapture, and for utopia to come along and heal the sick?

No and No.

I fail to understand this view - it seems to me to be blatantly irresponsible to do nothing when one is capable of giving aid - or at least trying.

It's a view you have created in your own head with a little help from the other poster.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[FinalEnigma]

I appreciate the correction.

So then, your position is that we should continually endeavor to right the wrongs of this world, but bearing in mind that we will ultimately fail and god will have to do it for us?

Is then your opposition to the very idea that humans can better themselves and create a more moral society?

[nzlaws]

"..Anyone who seems to offer a change on a world wide scale will more likely be a deceiver leading the worlds population to even greater disaster";"Well the world has been corrupt for a very long time. So nothing has changed there. Of course the widespread breakdown in Law and Order in many parts of the world and the rise of extreme violence is all prophesised for the times near the return of the Messiah Jesus. So seeking all this is no surprise, we have been told it would come. Of course what you see now is nothing compared to how things are going to be in a few years time..";"Personally yes i advocate waiting for God to put things right..";"..Anyone who seems to offer a change on a world wide scale will more likely be a deceiver leading the worlds population to even greater disaster";"No perfect system can be created with imperfect humans in the equation.";"Just because i identify one proposed system as faulty Does not mean i support another. ALL Systems of man are faulty and vulnerable to undermining by the very corrupt nature of mankind. ALL SYSTEMS.";"So on the one hand i obey the powers that be while at the same time i believe they are evil ..";"People who think they can achieve it by their actions and efforts are self deluded. They have no real hope"
"

Look what Australia is doing to you Adstar it is projecting apathy- it could not possibly be you- just must be someone else? - (you might like to accuse me of cherry picking... I will save time and admit to doing so)




As to your comment in there about the "powers that be" it might be worth actually considering that those "powers that be" are really only positions of trust (not power) although they are empowered by that trust to act (on behalf) in accordance with that trust (optimism?).

If God did magically create a utopia he would have to trust fallible mankind not to stuff it up again? (apparently already done) -

But sooner or later the number of those that will believe shall be reached and then God will take direct control

Did it occur to you that the "numbers" are required to empower a trust associated with proposed remedies and that the intention was to use that trust to promote a specific path?


.

[Adstar]

I appreciate the correction.

So then, your position is that we should continually endeavour to right the wrongs of this world, but bearing in mind that we will ultimately fail and god will have to do it for us?

Yes. But the wrongs of this world will continue to happen. All a Christian can do is engage in the "good fight" (one that has more to do with a fight with their own nature) in seeking to resist carnal desires to engage in wrong and seeking to help victims of wrongs.

All we can do is engage in damage limitation and repair.

Not in damage elimination.

Is then your opposition to the very idea that humans can better themselves and create a more moral society?

Human beings can be come better people through the struggle with their own self. But they cannot become perfect nor can they create a utopia in their society. To engage in the good fight is worshipping God in Spirit. It is noble to fight and try, it is the right Spirit.

But society in general is under the command of satanic agents so society will not be changed. if one engages in fighting against society they are only being used as pawns in the satanic elites games.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days