Right now..Lawless Days of Prophecy?

[nzlaws]

International examples of corruption, crime, etc include Nations perceived to be the least corrupt - what conclusions do theological observers come to based upon this amateur observation of evidence?

And more importantly what is the likely response from organised religions to this reality or how much worse before evidence quantifies prophecy?

I have worked a little in the mental health arena some years ago and am aware of the number of confused individuals that believe that they are "Jesus" and seen the organised Christian response to this (medication) so the likelihood of the real "Christ" Identifying himself to any religion in real time would be rather slim.

I personally suspect that saving the Planet from humanities stupidity would be Christs first goal in serving God- "This would require a new form of Government"... if not the solution then I am open to being impressed- are there any other thoughts on another possible methodology for saving the environment for Life that God provided

I see concepts of ownership as being the biggest hurdle - but couldn't find anywhere in the bible where ownership was transferred to the occupants- be it the family of mankind or the other families- all of which are Gods Creations- "Domain over" does not suggest or confer Disposition but rather highlights the difference between Stewardship and Ownership- one of these concepts does not include Disposition...

Come on folk enlighten me- Where are religions going? over and over the same ground year after year? what is new on the horizon- communications have evolved in the last few years- from this we can grow (am I wrong?).

[Adstar]

"..Anyone who seems to offer a change on a world wide scale will more likely be a deceiver leading the worlds population to even greater disaster";"Well the world has been corrupt for a very long time. So nothing has changed there. Of course the widespread breakdown in Law and Order in many parts of the world and the rise of extreme violence is all prophesised for the times near the return of the Messiah Jesus. So seeking all this is no surprise, we have been told it would come. Of course what you see now is nothing compared to how things are going to be in a few years time..";"Personally yes i advocate waiting for God to put things right..";"..Anyone who seems to offer a change on a world wide scale will more likely be a deceiver leading the worlds population to even greater disaster";"No perfect system can be created with imperfect humans in the equation.";"Just because i identify one proposed system as faulty Does not mean i support another. ALL Systems of man are faulty and vulnerable to undermining by the very corrupt nature of mankind. ALL SYSTEMS.";"So on the one hand i obey the powers that be while at the same time i believe they are evil ..";"People who think they can achieve it by their actions and efforts are self deluded. They have no real hope"
"

Look what Australia is doing to you Adstar it is projecting apathy- it could not possibly be you- just must be someone else? - (you might like to accuse me of cherry picking... I will save time and admit to doing so).

The continent of my birth has nothing to do with my beliefs. I believe what i believe because of the Word of God. Australia is nation ruled unbelievers, hey our prime minister is an atheist. I am in this country but it is spiritually a foreign land to me.

As to your comment in there about the "powers that be" it might be worth actually considering that those "powers that be" are really only positions of trust (not power)

I do not trust human beings. I trust in God. The general population may trust. (and speaking to and living with australians for all my life i can say that most of them look at politicians as pig with their corrupt snouts in the trough. Of course there is always an idealistic young generation coming up easy to brain wash. I see them walking around on australia day half pissed with australian flags on their backs. More fresh meat for the elites grinder.

although they are empowered by that trust to act (on behalf) in accordance with that trust (optimism?).

No, gullabeism. Or mushroomism. Or even pawnism. Take your pick.

If God did magically create a utopia he would have to trust fallible mankind not to stuff it up again?

No because with the establishment of His Utopia He will change Human beings into Utopian Human beings.

But sooner or later the number of those that will believe shall be reached and then God will take direct control

More like a Number of those who will be killed for their belief, when that number is reached then the end shall come.

Did it occur to you that the "numbers" are required to empower a trust associated with proposed remedies and that the intention was to use that trust to promote a specific path?

Not sure what point you are making here. Anyway God is not dependant on getting a majority of support from the human population. Oh a thought just came into my head, are you a believer in the doctrine that states that Christians must dominate the world to bring about the right conditions for the return of the Messiah? Is that what the above quote is about?



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[FinalEnigma]

But society in general is under the command of satanic agents so society will not be changed. if one engages in fighting against society they are only being used as pawns in the satanic elites games.

I don't believe that. I don't see what is so special about our time that society cannot be changed. Society has always changed, and always will - that is human nature as well.
Don't you believe that a small number of determined individuals cannot change the world - or at least major portions of their society. Change has to start somewhere.

[Adstar]

But society in general is under the command of satanic agents so society will not be changed. if one engages in fighting against society they are only being used as pawns in the satanic elites games.

I don't believe that. I don't see what is so special about our time that society cannot be changed.

Thats more like a statement built upon a desire rather than simply looking at human history. If you look at history you can see the merry go round. You can see history repeating itself. How old ideas that failed are dressed up with new speak words and put forward as the New way to a perfect world.

As an old song goes. Same as it ever was, same as it ever was. Same as it ever was, Same as it ever was.

Hey i found the song. i love utube lol ( PS don't worry it's just a music video no offensive stuff in terms of violence or language )


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1wg1DNHbNU

Yeah the elites have got the mushrooms on a road to nowhere always marching to a utopia but never getting there. As long as they make them believe there going to get there one day the the mushrooms will keep on marching and serving like good debt slaves.

Same artists, one his road to nowhere: He was an excentric fellow but he was a thinker. This should be the US national anthem

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWtCittJ ... ature=fvwp

Society has always changed, and always will - that is human nature as well.
Don't you believe that a small number of determined individuals cannot change the world - or at least major portions of their society. Change has to start somewhere.

Society goes around in circles like a rabid dog chasing its tail. Small numbers of determined individuals do change things until the next bunch of determined individuals are activated and line the old bunch of determined individuals up against a wall to be gunned down. They have their day riding on top of the beast till they to are assessed as expendable.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[Clownboat]

I appreciate the correction.

So then, your position is that we should continually endeavour to right the wrongs of this world, but bearing in mind that we will ultimately fail and god will have to do it for us?

Yes. But the wrongs of this world will continue to happen. All a Christian can do is engage in the "good fight" (one that has more to do with a fight with their own nature) in seeking to resist carnal desires to engage in wrong and seeking to help victims of wrongs.

All we can do is engage in damage limitation and repair.

Not in damage elimination.

Is then your opposition to the very idea that humans can better themselves and create a more moral society?

Human beings can be come better people through the struggle with their own self. But they cannot become perfect nor can they create a utopia in their society. To engage in the good fight is worshipping God in Spirit. It is noble to fight and try, it is the right Spirit.

But society in general is under the command of satanic agents so society will not be changed. if one engages in fighting against society they are only being used as pawns in the satanic elites games.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

This seems to be such a defeated, glass half empty attitude. I would give you a hug right now if I could. I feel for you

[otseng]

Pride is getting in the way of you accepting this other posters opinion (made by JW).

Moderator Comment

There is no need to make any analysis on someone's pride in accepting an opinion. And actually, it has no bearing at all on debates. Someone can be prideful and be completely right. Or not be prideful and be completely wrong. Moreover, commenting that someone else is prideful can be considered a personal attack.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster.

[FinalEnigma]

Thats more like a statement built upon a desire rather than simply looking at human history. If you look at history you can see the merry go round. You can see history repeating itself. How old ideas that failed are dressed up with new speak words and put forward as the New way to a perfect world.

I'm sorry, it seems I wasn't clear. You said that society cannot be changed, I took that to mean current society.
but do you mean that society in general cannot be changed ever? or is there something specific about our moment in history that indicates that society cannot be changed?

Society goes around in circles like a rabid dog chasing its tail. Small numbers of determined individuals do change things until the next bunch of determined individuals are activated and line the old bunch of determined individuals up against a wall to be gunned down. They have their day riding on top of the beast till they to are assessed as expendable.

The problem with this is that strides can clearly be seen to have been made in the direction of a better world. Using the united states as an example, since it is the country I am most familiar with, slavery has been ended. that was a stride forward. African Americans were granted equality, another stride forward, women granted equality, another. Formerly marginalized segments of society are given protection under law, another step forward. I don't see the steps being undone. As man progresses through time he makes advances, not only in technology, but in law and morality as well. We know know that slavery is wrong, and as time passes, I believe we will continue to grow into a better society.

Do you deny that these are advances?

here, let me reply to your you tube video with one of my own.



listen to what this song says, to what the video says, really listen. This is change. This is people doing the right thing and making the world a better place, and it does happen. Society is not simply running in circles.

Now look at the views and the likes on the video. How can you call this a lack of progress?

[Adstar]

I appreciate the correction.

So then, your position is that we should continually endeavour to right the wrongs of this world, but bearing in mind that we will ultimately fail and god will have to do it for us?

Yes. But the wrongs of this world will continue to happen. All a Christian can do is engage in the "good fight" (one that has more to do with a fight with their own nature) in seeking to resist carnal desires to engage in wrong and seeking to help victims of wrongs.

All we can do is engage in damage limitation and repair.

Not in damage elimination.

Is then your opposition to the very idea that humans can better themselves and create a more moral society?

Human beings can be come better people through the struggle with their own self. But they cannot become perfect nor can they create a utopia in their society. To engage in the good fight is worshipping God in Spirit. It is noble to fight and try, it is the right Spirit.

But society in general is under the command of satanic agents so society will not be changed. if one engages in fighting against society they are only being used as pawns in the satanic elites games.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

This seems to be such a defeated, glass half empty attitude. I would give you a hug right now if I could. I feel for you

Awww Thats a nice sentiment there Clownboat, But don't feel too sad for me cause i have factored in all this into the eternal equation. I am an eternal winner and my cupeth is full to overflowing. I know how things are going to end. Thats the good news that fills me with joy absolute.

Looking at my age now i am pretty sure i am already past half way in my life. So i can see the light at the end of the tunnel. From what i see happening in the world i would say i am four fifths through the tunnel.

I can understand why an atheist would be depressed. But not me. I'm excited.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[Adstar]

Thats more like a statement built upon a desire rather than simply looking at human history. If you look at history you can see the merry go round. You can see history repeating itself. How old ideas that failed are dressed up with new speak words and put forward as the New way to a perfect world.

I'm sorry, it seems I wasn't clear. You said that society cannot be changed, I took that to mean current society.
but do you mean that society in general cannot be changed ever? or is there something specific about our moment in history that indicates that society cannot be changed?

The point i was making was that any change cannot bring about a utopia. Humans on a personal scale are not perfect. So any system they move to will be undermined by humans within it. Does not matter what system they live under monarchy dictatorship democracy capitalism communism all the varied blends of cultural structures, all experience the same corruption and backbiting nepotism ect ect ect. So changes can happen but they are just a merry go round, changing the furniture arrangement giving the delusion of change but in reality you still live in the same house with the same furniture.

Society goes around in circles like a rabid dog chasing its tail. Small numbers of determined individuals do change things until the next bunch of determined individuals are activated and line the old bunch of determined individuals up against a wall to be gunned down. They have their day riding on top of the beast till they to are assessed as expendable.

The problem with this is that strides can clearly be seen to have been made in the direction of a better world. Using the united states as an example, since it is the country I am most familiar with, slavery has been ended. that was a stride forward.

LOL everyone who is dependent on a take home wage is a modern wage slave. All people who are in debt are debt slaves. A small elites rides on the backs of the slaves, same as it ever was, They create a two party state where both sides are full of selected candidates, selected by the elites. You go through a farce every few years deciding wether you will vote for satans right hand man or satans left hand man but in the end you will vote for satans man. They play the pantomime in their houses of debate making the people think they are in opposition, but when they play their musical chairs you find that the rich still get richer and the poor get more oppressed and the solders are still being sent off to kill some other poor sods on the other side of the world.

African Americans were granted equality, another stride forward, women granted equality, another. Formerly marginalized segments of society are given protection under law, another step forward. I don't see the steps being undone.

LOL They are all salves.

As man progresses through time he makes advances, not only in technology, but in law and morality as well. We know know that slavery is wrong, and as time passes, I believe we will continue to grow into a better society.

Do you deny that these are advances?

Its a delusion. It is not that this minority has been lifted up. It is that all the "lower class scum" (as the elites would call them) have been homogenised into a standardised slave class.

here, let me reply to your you tube video with one of my own.

Ok candy brainwashing music for a gullible youth. The elites farm people who listen to this kind of music. performed by pretty boys with just the right hair length smarting the, just so, cut modern beards and wearing just the right kind of dark attitude cloths uniforms to give of the right image that makes recordings sell to the plastic minded youth, who get their feel good minutes from the song and then go out and live their lives as per usual. Makes me sick that they make money off the backs of what other people attempted. I wonder how much of the money that recording made went to the suffering people of the world? Probably none.

listen to what this song says, to what the video says, really listen. This is change. This is people doing the right thing and making the world a better place, and it does happen. Society is not simply running in circles.

Even the efforts of the people mentioned made little or no impact. So bob geldoff made 150 million. Africa gave much much more money that that in interest payments for their debts to the multinational banks in the very same year. But i guess thousands and thousands of gullible youths in the west felt they had done their bit by donating their 5 dollars to the concert and all the problems in africa where solved. Get Real. Yeah people can and do make efforts and contributions. But in the Overview of the World their effects are negligible.

Now look at the views and the likes on the video. How can you call this a lack of progress?

Look at south africa. More poverty then before mandelas time. More violence, murders are rampant now, home invasions and child rapes, it is one of the murder capitols of the world. Race violence with desperate Zimbabweans being attacked my mobs just as violent as any skinhead gang in europe wanting to drive them out. Stop looking at the world through rose coloured glasses.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[FinalEnigma]

Alright, I've been quite polite throughout, but I believe I need to be more assertive.

That was a rant. This debate is clearly over - I have no interest in someone who wishes to insult me, respond to my points with 'LOL', and degrade the human race as a whole - the discussion is clearly not worth my time.

however, there are a couple things that ought to be made clear.

Nickleback donated 100% of the proceeds from that single and that video to Amnesty International and International Childrens Awareness Canada. (For more on their charity work and contributions, follow this link: http://www.looktothestars.org/celebrity/2036-nickelback )
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but there are good people in the world.

Perhaps we should focus on making more of them rather than on bringing everyone down? The arguments you make on this site seem far more destructive than constructive.

Stop looking at the world through rose coloured glasses.

Now this comment...this is one that I have great issue with. Now, my life is not material, and your comment is against the rules and will thus be reported, but despite being 23, I have lived through harder things than many people twice my age. I have been made disturbingly aware that this is not a nice world. I am aware of harsh realities that you most likely are not. to assume that I look at the world through rose colored classes is not only extremely presumptuous, but quite incorrect.

[Clownboat]

I appreciate the correction.

So then, your position is that we should continually endeavour to right the wrongs of this world, but bearing in mind that we will ultimately fail and god will have to do it for us?

Yes. But the wrongs of this world will continue to happen. All a Christian can do is engage in the "good fight" (one that has more to do with a fight with their own nature) in seeking to resist carnal desires to engage in wrong and seeking to help victims of wrongs.

All we can do is engage in damage limitation and repair.

Not in damage elimination.

Is then your opposition to the very idea that humans can better themselves and create a more moral society?

Human beings can be come better people through the struggle with their own self. But they cannot become perfect nor can they create a utopia in their society. To engage in the good fight is worshipping God in Spirit. It is noble to fight and try, it is the right Spirit.

But society in general is under the command of satanic agents so society will not be changed. if one engages in fighting against society they are only being used as pawns in the satanic elites games.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

This seems to be such a defeated, glass half empty attitude. I would give you a hug right now if I could. I feel for you

Awww Thats a nice sentiment there Clownboat, But don't feel too sad for me cause i have factored in all this into the eternal equation. I am an eternal winner and my cupeth is full to overflowing. I know how things are going to end. Thats the good news that fills me with joy absolute.

Looking at my age now i am pretty sure i am already past half way in my life. So i can see the light at the end of the tunnel. From what i see happening in the world i would say i am four fifths through the tunnel.

I can understand why an atheist would be depressed. But not me. I'm excited.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

You only think you know how things will end, you do not have any special knowledge the escapes the rest of us. I would ask you for evidence, but I already know that it is un-knowable (what happens to us when we die that is).

Why would an atheist be depressed? Like I pointed out, you are the one with a defeated, glass half empty attitude about the world we live in. Hugs for you.

It's possible that you need to think you have this certainty in order for you to deal with your own depression (or discomforts about unknown questions) and it makes sense as to why you would want to assign said depression to atheist. I totally understand how thinking you know what will happen to you when you die would be comforting, and I understand why it becomes a necessity to have such a belief in order to deal with reality (especially in the later years of ones life).

I'm glad that you feel like an eternal winner and that you feel like your cup is overflowing all because you have decided that you picked the correct religion to follow.