Leaving the forum - Thanks for the ride

[fewwillfindit]

I have decided to permanently leave this forum, and I am posting this here so that anyone with whom I am presently debating will know why I am no longer replying. I can no longer deal with all of the negativity and the haters of God, His kids and His Word. It is seriously dragging me into the gutter and it is killing my spirit. It is the prolific God-haters like I AM ALL I AM, notachance, Zzyzx, etc., whom I just don't want forced into my life anymore, and their presence is inescapable on this forum. They and others like them are not interested in anything but spewing their venomous bile against Christianity. They have not taken the time to study and learn that which they argue against, and repeatedly demonstrate this ignorance of the Bible, Christian theology and history in their "debates." When confronted, rather than attempting to learn, they presume to rail even harder in their ignorance and refuse to even try to understand. Such "debaters" take center stage on this forum and are by far the most prolific and vociferous posters.

With nearly every new thread, there is a daily barrage of hatred leveled against Christianity, calling the holiness or our God and His precious Word into question. I think that this forum would be more adequately named "Hating Christianity and Religion" rather than Debating Christianity and Religion. Thank you Otseng for your valiant attempt to promote Christian Apologetics. Truly, I thank you. I know you meant well when you created it, but in my estimation it has become overrun with hatred, and it is doing far more harm to Christianity than good.

I do, however, appreciate thoughtful non-Theist debaters like McCulloch and many more, so this is not a diatribe against the entire group.

I do wish that I could stick around long enough to see Zzyzx actually debate instead of merely finding a myriad of creative ways to say "prove it," but I fear I would be waiting a long time for that. A five-year old could be successful using those "debate" tactics. Sorry, but I'm not impressed.

Anyhow, good-bye. To my Christian brothers and sisters, keep up the good work.

I will not be answering any more replies.

God bless you.

[theopoesis]

Well, if this forum is having a negative influence on your life perhaps it is best you take a break from it.

And I've decided to. A permanent break.

I wish you all the best. All of you.

[Adstar]

I have decided to permanently leave this forum, and I am posting this here so that anyone with whom I am presently debating will know why I am no longer replying. I can no longer deal with all of the negativity and the haters of God, His kids and His Word. It is seriously dragging me into the gutter and it is killing my spirit. It is the prolific God-haters like I AM ALL I AM, notachance, Zzyzx, etc., whom I just don't want forced into my life anymore, and their presence is inescapable on this forum. They and others like them are not interested in anything but spewing their venomous bile against Christianity. They have not taken the time to study and learn that which they argue against, and repeatedly demonstrate this ignorance of the Bible, Christian theology and history in their "debates." When confronted, rather than attempting to learn, they presume to rail even harder in their ignorance and refuse to even try to understand. Such "debaters" take center stage on this forum and are by far the most prolific and vociferous posters.

With nearly every new thread, there is a daily barrage of hatred leveled against Christianity, calling the holiness or our God and His precious Word into question. I think that this forum would be more adequately named "Hating Christianity and Religion" rather than Debating Christianity and Religion. Thank you Otseng for your valiant attempt to promote Christian Apologetics. Truly, I thank you. I know you meant well when you created it, but in my estimation it has become overrun with hatred, and it is doing far more harm to Christianity than good.

I do, however, appreciate thoughtful non-Theist debaters like McCulloch and many more, so this is not a diatribe against the entire group.

I do wish that I could stick around long enough to see Zzyzx actually debate instead of merely finding a myriad of creative ways to say "prove it," but I fear I would be waiting a long time for that. A five-year old could be successful using those "debate" tactics. Sorry, but I'm not impressed.

Anyhow, good-bye. To my Christian brothers and sisters, keep up the good work.

I will not be answering any more replies.

God bless you.

Blessings to you fewwillfindit.

I totally understand why you are leaving. This is at heart an anti-christian forum and the more bible based a Christian is the more hatered they recieve.. But as our Lord Jesus said:

John 15
18 “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. 20 Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you.

So fewwillfindit take joy that you have been found worthy to suffer persecution for his names sake.

Acts 5
40 And they agreed with him, and when they had called for the apostles and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go. 41 So they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for His name.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[otseng]

This is at heart an anti-christian forum and the more bible based a Christian is the more hatered they recieve..

I would disagree that this is an anti-Christian forum at heart. It is a forum to both argue for and against Christianity. Having people here that argue against Christianity is to be expected. As well as having people here to argue for it. So, it is neither pro nor anti-Christianity.

[psalm8]

This is at heart an anti-christian forum and the more bible based a Christian is the more hatered they recieve..

I would disagree that this is an anti-Christian forum at heart. It is a forum to both argue for and against Christianity. Having people here that argue against Christianity is to be expected. As well as having people here to argue for it. So, it is neither pro nor anti-Christianity.

Im gonna agree with adstar. This is quite at heart anti-christian. Christians end up having to debate the merits of atheism more often then not. Not to mention how personality driven it is, though I suppose theres no way around that when personalities debate. But that is to be expected. There is "spirit" and there is no "spirit". "Spirit" cannot be debated. Its a reality to those who know Him through it...and utter nonsense to those void of it. That leaves arguing the semantics of the Bible. which has many authors and many applications. MOST of it will NOT make sense to the person void of spirit illumination. And it wont because its not supposed to. The debaters who claim "Christianity" but yet cherry pick their beliefs are the ones who stay here the longest. Everyone else is smart enough to understand the debate cannot work. Once upon a time I would have thought a good debate aided growth cuz "iron sharpens iron." Well, thats a nice cliche right out of the Bible, but it struck me on the last thread I was on that the arguments against God are NOT iron. They are weak, poorly thought out, vengeful, hateful, repetitious. Even the demands for evidence of God which are the only ad nauseum requests consistently made in most debates are consistently just plain stupid cuz they wouldn't know evidence if it hit them in the face cuz they have no idea what/who/where/when is the subject for which they want evidence. Instead they compare santa and elfs and a host of other stupid myths, even though they know quite well that no Christian has ever suggested God is similar. Those who claim otherwise are lying (hard truth). So whats left is semantics and the search for the ever proverbial "gotcha" moment. In the end its a joke. Maybe the initial idea was honorable, but this site does nothing more than strengthen the stupidity of atheism. Nothing to fear, of course, strong stupidity is no less stupid then weak stupidity, but I hate to think that there are so many people that die stupid. I will be requesting to leave this site shortly.

[Adstar]

This is at heart an anti-christian forum and the more bible based a Christian is the more hatered they recieve..

I would disagree that this is an anti-Christian forum at heart. It is a forum to both argue for and against Christianity. Having people here that argue against Christianity is to be expected. As well as having people here to argue for it. So, it is neither pro nor anti-Christianity.

Im gonna agree with adstar. This is quite at heart anti-christian. Christians end up having to debate the merits of atheism more often then not. Not to mention how personality driven it is, though I suppose theres no way around that when personalities debate. But that is to be expected. There is "spirit" and there is no "spirit". "Spirit" cannot be debated. Its a reality to those who know Him through it...and utter nonsense to those void of it. That leaves arguing the semantics of the Bible. which has many authors and many applications. MOST of it will NOT make sense to the person void of spirit illumination. And it wont because its not supposed to. The debaters who claim "Christianity" but yet cherry pick their beliefs are the ones who stay here the longest. Everyone else is smart enough to understand the debate cannot work.

The message of the Bible works when one is open to it and the Spirit works on them. You seem to be saying that someone needs to be a full on believer before they can even pick up the bible and get any message from it.

I understand that debate will not work with one who has rejected the love of the truth. But sometimes it takes a long time to confirm within your own conscience that the other person is a rejector of the Love of the truth. Some people are just rejectors of what they have been lead to believe Christianity is. There are a lot of false views of Christianity doing the rounds out there and a lot of media projecting false views of Christianity and Christians. So you got to spend time and do a bit of deeper digging to accurately identify the foundation of the others apparent rejection of God. If they have rejected God then yes you can shut up shop and move on. But out of love you got to persist until that becomes absolutely clear.

Once upon a time I would have thought a good debate aided growth cuz "iron sharpens iron."

I see that statement in the bible as refering to two genuine followers of Jesus. Iron and Iron. As in the same type. Fellowship and discussion can raise both higher in the knowledge of salvation.

Not Iron and Clay a Christian and an anti-Christ.

Well, thats a nice cliche right out of the Bible, but it struck me on the last thread I was on that the arguments against God are NOT iron. They are weak, poorly thought out, vengeful, hateful, repetitious.

Clay.

Even the demands for evidence of God which are the only ad nauseum requests consistently made in most debates are consistently just plain stupid cuz they wouldn't know evidence if it hit them in the face cuz they have no idea what/who/where/when is the subject for which they want evidence. Instead they compare santa and elfs and a host of other stupid myths, even though they know quite well that no Christian has ever suggested God is similar. Those who claim otherwise are lying (hard truth). So whats left is semantics and the search for the ever proverbial "gotcha" moment. In the end its a joke. Maybe the initial idea was honorable, but this site does nothing more than strengthen the stupidity of atheism. Nothing to fear, of course, strong stupidity is no less stupid then weak stupidity, but I hate to think that there are so many people that die stupid. I will be requesting to leave this site shortly.

It's all in the hands of God. He knows whom will end up accepting His will and who will reject His will. He has known that since the foundation of the world. All we got to do is do what we are lead to do and realise that the Holy Spirit is the one that actually does the Work.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[arian]

This is at heart an anti-christian forum and the more bible based a Christian is the more hatered they recieve..

I would disagree that this is an anti-Christian forum at heart. It is a forum to both argue for and against Christianity. Having people here that argue against Christianity is to be expected. As well as having people here to argue for it. So, it is neither pro nor anti-Christianity.

Im gonna agree with adstar. This is quite at heart anti-christian. Christians end up having to debate the merits of atheism more often then not. Not to mention how personality driven it is, though I suppose theres no way around that when personalities debate. But that is to be expected. There is "spirit" and there is no "spirit". "Spirit" cannot be debated. Its a reality to those who know Him through it...and utter nonsense to those void of it. That leaves arguing the semantics of the Bible. which has many authors and many applications. MOST of it will NOT make sense to the person void of spirit illumination. And it wont because its not supposed to. The debaters who claim "Christianity" but yet cherry pick their beliefs are the ones who stay here the longest. Everyone else is smart enough to understand the debate cannot work. Once upon a time I would have thought a good debate aided growth cuz "iron sharpens iron." Well, thats a nice cliche right out of the Bible, but it struck me on the last thread I was on that the arguments against God are NOT iron. They are weak, poorly thought out, vengeful, hateful, repetitious. Even the demands for evidence of God which are the only ad nauseum requests consistently made in most debates are consistently just plain stupid cuz they wouldn't know evidence if it hit them in the face cuz they have no idea what/who/where/when is the subject for which they want evidence. Instead they compare santa and elfs and a host of other stupid myths, even though they know quite well that no Christian has ever suggested God is similar. Those who claim otherwise are lying (hard truth). So whats left is semantics and the search for the ever proverbial "gotcha" moment. In the end its a joke. Maybe the initial idea was honorable, but this site does nothing more than strengthen the stupidity of atheism. Nothing to fear, of course, strong stupidity is no less stupid then weak stupidity, but I hate to think that there are so many people that die stupid. I will be requesting to leave this site shortly.

Once upon a time I would have thought a good debate aided growth cuz "iron sharpens iron." Well, thats a nice cliche right out of the Bible, but it struck me on the last thread I was on that the arguments against God are NOT iron. They are weak, poorly thought out, vengeful, hateful, repetitious. Even the demands for evidence of God which are the only ad nauseum requests consistently made in most debates are consistently just plain stupid cuz they wouldn't know evidence if it hit them in the face

Leaving the Forum?

Moses:
Num 11:14-15
14 I can't be responsible for all these people by myself; it's too much for me! 15 If you are going to treat me like this, have pity on me and kill me, so that I won't have to endure your cruelty any longer."
TEV

Jonah 4:1-4
But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he became angry. 2 So he prayed to the LORD, and said, "Ah, LORD, was not this what I said when I was still in my country? Therefore I fled previously to Tarshish; for I know that You are a gracious and merciful God, slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, One who relents from doing harm. 3 Therefore now, O LORD, please take my life from me, for it is better for me to die than to live!"

4 Then the LORD said, "Is it right for you to be angry?"
NKJV

Elijah
1 Kings 19:9-10
9 There he went into a cave to spend the night.
Suddenly the LORD spoke to him, "Elijah, what are you doing here?"
10 He answered, "LORD God Almighty, I have always served you — you alone. But the people of Israel have broken their covenant with you, torn down your altars, and killed all your prophets. I am the only one left — and they are trying to kill me!"
TEV

A true-Believer
Eph 6:14-20
14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints — 19 and for me, that utterance may be given to me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
NKJV

We do not walk according to the flesh, but we are still in this world where we know they will hate us and persecute us. There are wolves, and lions that want nothing more then to see Christians give up.

Stop, gird yourself and fight.
This is not against a few angry and disillusioned people, but we are fighting against principalities and powers of darkness. We are moments before enjoying our victory, for if you BELIEVE, then you should know we have already won.

Love your enemies, .. but hate the very clothes that have been soiled by their sinful ways.

Matt 5:46-48
46 Why should God reward you if you love only the people who love you? Even the tax collectors do that! 47 And if you speak only to your friends, have you done anything out of the ordinary? Even the pagans do that! 48 You must be perfect — just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
TEV

"I did not come to bring peace, but a sword!" remember? Not a sword of steel, but the sword that proceeds out of the mouth of God, His Son who is His Word. It is far sharper then any two-edged sword on earth, you know that!

It is the doctrines of men that has taken the fight out of Christianity, let us regroup, re-arm ourselves with the TRUTH, and fight on!

Acts 14:1-2
Now it happened in Iconium that they went together to the synagogue of the Jews, and so spoke that a great multitude both of the Jews and of the Greeks believed. 2 But the unbelieving Jews stirred up the Gentiles and poisoned their minds against the brethren.
NKJV

Rev 21:6-8
6 And He said to me,"It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
NKJV

[Slopeshoulder]

What?
What use is this without exegesis? Are we reduced to speaking to each other in decontextualized quotes?
How very strange.

[arian]

What?
What use is this without exegesis? Are we reduced to speaking to each other in decontextualized quotes?
How very strange.

Here is something that will explain why you would not understand and think it is only dicontextualized quotes:

Matt 13:10-15
10 Then the disciples came to Jesus and asked him, "Why do you use parables when you talk to the people?"

11 Jesus answered, "The knowledge about the secrets of the Kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 For the person who has something will be given more, so that he will have more than enough; but the person who has nothing will have taken away from him even the little he has.

13 The reason I use parables in talking to them is that they look, but do not see, and they listen, but do not hear or understand. 14 So the prophecy of Isaiah applies to them:

'This people will listen and listen, but not understand;
they will look and look, but not see,
15 because their minds are dull,
and they have stopped up their ears
and have closed their eyes.
Otherwise, their eyes would see,
their ears would hear,
their minds would understand,
and they would turn to me, says God,
and I would heal them.'
TEV

[Slopeshoulder]

What?
What use is this without exegesis? Are we reduced to speaking to each other in decontextualized quotes?
How very strange.

Here is something that will explain why you would not understand and think it is only dicontextualized quotes:

Matt 13:10-15
10 Then the disciples came to Jesus and asked him, "Why do you use parables when you talk to the people?"

11 Jesus answered, "The knowledge about the secrets of the Kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 For the person who has something will be given more, so that he will have more than enough; but the person who has nothing will have taken away from him even the little he has.

13 The reason I use parables in talking to them is that they look, but do not see, and they listen, but do not hear or understand. 14 So the prophecy of Isaiah applies to them:

'This people will listen and listen, but not understand;
they will look and look, but not see,
15 because their minds are dull,
and they have stopped up their ears
and have closed their eyes.
Otherwise, their eyes would see,
their ears would hear,
their minds would understand,
and they would turn to me, says God,
and I would heal them.'
TEV

You respond to my inquiry about decontextualized quotes with some more decontextualized quotes? Do you have a mind and words of your own?
On principle, I don't read decontextualized quotes; I only read quotes or listen to them in the context of peer reviewed scholarship, professional exegesis, or credentialed preaching. So it you want to make a point, you'll have to put it in plain English, or at least surround 10% quotes with 90% English.

And why would you assume that I fail to understand anything (other than calculus, which I do truly do not understand)?

Are you suggesting that I am one of "them" to whom it is not given to understand? I, deeply religious, a seminary grad, etc? If so, that would constitute an unsubstantiated claim, an ad hominem, and incivility. I'm pretty sure I undertsand it all and you understand squat. My substantiation is your lack of quality theological education, your many irrational and uinformed and mistaken posts, and tendency to embrace and forward crackpot conspiracy theories.

[arian]

What?
What use is this without exegesis? Are we reduced to speaking to each other in decontextualized quotes?
How very strange.

Here is something that will explain why you would not understand and think it is only dicontextualized quotes:

Matt 13:10-15
10 Then the disciples came to Jesus and asked him, "Why do you use parables when you talk to the people?"

11 Jesus answered, "The knowledge about the secrets of the Kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 For the person who has something will be given more, so that he will have more than enough; but the person who has nothing will have taken away from him even the little he has.

13 The reason I use parables in talking to them is that they look, but do not see, and they listen, but do not hear or understand. 14 So the prophecy of Isaiah applies to them:

'This people will listen and listen, but not understand;
they will look and look, but not see,
15 because their minds are dull,
and they have stopped up their ears
and have closed their eyes.
Otherwise, their eyes would see,
their ears would hear,
their minds would understand,
and they would turn to me, says God,
and I would heal them.'
TEV

You respond to my inquiry about decontextualized quotes with some more decontextualized quotes? Do you have a mind and words of your own?

Not many, honestly I cannot even find the meaning for your word; 'decontextualized' so I figured it out; it must mean 'out of context', right?
See, I'm learning from all the big words you use on me, and I thank you my friend.

Intellectually, I am like 'Forest Gump', or 'Mr. Gardner' in the movie 'Being There' (I believe that was the name) compared to you.

To your question: "Do you have a mind and words of your own?", I really don't know anymore. My mind and my words are becoming less and less of me, and more and more of HIM, through His Holy Spirit. As soon as I want to respond to someone, the Words from the Bible pop in my head. What can I do? Is this bad?

On principle, I don't read decontextualized quotes; I only read quotes or listen to them in the context of peer reviewed scholarship, professional exegesis, or credentialed preaching. So it you want to make a point, you'll have to put it in plain English, or at least surround 10% quotes with 90% English.

Got it; 10% quotes and 90% English.

OK, let me see, ...

I don't get it. I checked and 100% of my 'quotes' are in English. I haven't even quoted in Greek or Hebrew as others here do!?!

And why would you assume that I fail to understand anything (other than calculus, which I do truly do not understand)?

I told you, I learn from your posts. I have to look up many words before I can respond at times, and your statement regarding calculous; "which I do truly do not understand" is confusing. Does this come from; "context of peer reviewed scholarship, professional exegesis, or credentialed preaching"?
If so, I do need to take some classes on those.

I did not 'assume' that you fail to understand anything, I told you I consider you highly intelligent'. It is impossible for strictly human logic and intellect to understand Spiritual matters, no matter how hard one tries.
The wise must become 'fools' for Christs sake, and those of low esteem, the least among us who seek God shall become the greatest.

Are you suggesting that I am one of "them" to whom it is not given to understand? I, deeply religious, a seminary grad, etc?

What do you think? (Not of 'my' opinion, for you have expressed your views about me many times already. It's still ringing in my ears.)
What do you think of your question? ... I'm trying to avoid answering you, cause I don't want to get my head ripped off. Besides, I just couldn't see you have an intellectual discussion with Forest Gump.

OK, ... since you asked, yes, I believe very much that you are 'one of them'. But remember, it is not that you lack the capacity to understand, but you lack the 'desire' to do so. You do not 'seek' or 'knock', because I believe you think so low of Christianity (morons, simpleminded fisherman etc.) that you cannot fathom any of its teachings would 'make one wise'.
So,.. it is NOT GIVEN to you to understand Spiritual things. It's a gift that is 'given', it cannot be attained by human merits, study etc. You have to 'desire it'.

If so, that would constitute an unsubstantiated claim, an ad hominem, and incivility. I'm pretty sure I undertsand it all and you understand squat.

There you go my friend, 'you know it all' and 'I don't know squat', so what can I tell you other than: "Life is like a box of chocolates, do you want some chocolate, .. I like chocolate."

My substantiation is your lack of quality theological education, your many irrational and uinformed and mistaken posts, and tendency to embrace and forward crackpot conspiracy theories.

Have I ever claimed otherwise? If you would have listened to my; "many irrational and uninformed and mistaken posts" you would have understood that I admit I lack; quality theological education I'm learning from you good people here, which I thank God and Otseng for.

As for my; "crackpot conspiracy theories", they are not just speculations, but facts. I actually heard and hear, seen and still see, felt and still feel the pain and suffering caused by the conspiracy against true Christianity, the Bible and my people the Jews, only the treasures and the pleasures of this world has blinded them from it.

It is just as before, only when they stepped out of the train-cars did they realize the reality of their predicament. Until then, many of them would have jumped out and helped push the train up the hills to get to the 'riches' that were believed to be waiting for them at their destination.