The parallel universe question. Not what you think it is

notachance · Post by **notachance** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:47 pm

Ok, so this is not an argument against deism, but against theism. If you don't know the difference, please don't waste your time on this.

Imagine some kind of extremely powerful or maybe even omnipotent creative force/intelligent designer exists. Lets call that entity God.

Imagine he didn't just create one, but two universes, identical in every single aspect, except for one, which I'll describe below.

In our universe, as well causing the Big Bang to happen, as well as fine tuning the laws of physics to specifically what would allow for the creation of galaxies, planets, life and intelligence, and as well as doing the INITIAL WORK OF CREATION, God also intervenes from time to time, possibly in the manner described in your religion. Maybe this God, as well as being the prime mover, also caused the great flood, spoke to moses through a burning bush, saved Lot from Gomorrah so that he could have sex with his two daughters, murdered thousands of Egyptian babies, told Moses that people who worked on Sundays should be murdered, etc. Maybe as well as being the prime mover, and doing all that OT stuff, God also got a jewish girl pregnant, appeared to Paul on the road to Damascus, sacrificed himself to himself to make us like him, etc. Maybe he appeared to Mohammed in a cave, (or one of his angels appeared on his behalf) etc.

Ok? That's in our universe. God as well as starting things up, keeps interacting with his creation from time to time, answering prayers, causing people to get cancer and then sometimes causing cancer remissions, making it rain after not making it rain because we want it to rain, making it not rain after making it rain because we want it to stop raining, causing natural disasters like Katrina because he hates Gay Pride parades, etc.

Now, in the parallel universe, after starting things up, he does absolutely NOTHING, and lets things run their course as per the laws and forces he created at the very beginning. No intervention whatsoever.

Now, here is the question:

Can you give us an example of an event that DEMONSTRABLY HAPPENED in our universe, that could not possibly have happened in the parallel universe?

Can you name one event that definitely happened without a shadow of a doubt, which could not be explained in any way other than an act of God?

p.s. In 6 hours I'm boarding a plane to Italy, and will be gone for a week. So I will not be able to respond to comments till I get back.

joncash · Post by **joncash** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:16 am

I claim false advertising. This is exactly what I expected.

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:40 pm

joncash wrote:I claim false advertising. This is exactly what I expected.

Please tell us "exactly" what it is you "expected".
Where is the false advertising?
I am not sure we know what is going on in this universe but the description hardly fit this one even if some think it does. It is much more complex, including, superstitions, emotions, reason, varying conditions, myth, stories, ritual, kinship, desires both personal and social with many equal moral and non-moral options, some not even present or emerged.

joncash · Post by **joncash** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:52 pm

notachance trying to be like Z

Jester · Post by **Jester** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:56 pm

Moderator Comment

joncash wrote:notachance trying to be like Z

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Wootah · Post by **Wootah** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:51 am

Naturally you aren't accepting the deeds in the bible as evidence but none the less I think the post does have some good questions in it. It really makes me wonder why anyone would be a deist. Is a God that does nothing worthy of worship?

I don't just praise God because he is God but because God is a certain way and has characteristics that are worthy of worship. Because God interacted in this world in history to redeem me.

notachance · Post by **notachance** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:43 pm

Wootah wrote:Naturally you aren't accepting the deeds in the bible as evidence but none the less I think the post does have some good questions in it. It really makes me wonder why anyone would be a deist. Is a God that does nothing worthy of worship?

I don't just praise God because he is God but because God is a certain way and has characteristics that are worthy of worship. Because God interacted in this world in history to redeem me.

Are you saying that it would be impossible for a book such as the Bible to be written in the parallel universe where God doesn't intervene?

notachance · Post by **notachance** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:44 pm

Wootah wrote:Naturally you aren't accepting the deeds in the bible as evidence but none the less I think the post does have some good questions in it. It really makes me wonder why anyone would be a deist. Is a God that does nothing worthy of worship?

I don't just praise God because he is God but because God is a certain way and has characteristics that are worthy of worship. Because God interacted in this world in history to redeem me.

Are you saying that it would be impossible for a book such as the Bible to be written in the parallel universe where God doesn't intervene?

Wootah · Post by **Wootah** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:11 am

notachance wrote:Are you saying that it would be impossible for a book such as the Bible to be written in the parallel universe where God doesn't intervene?

If God doesn't intervene then there is no God's book.

I guess a million monkeys typing on a million keyboards could accidentally write the book God wanted to write.

notachance · Post by **notachance** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:20 am

Wootah wrote:
notachance wrote:Are you saying that it would be impossible for a book such as the Bible to be written in the parallel universe where God doesn't intervene?
If God doesn't intervene then there is no God's book.

I guess a million monkeys typing on a million keyboards could accidentally write the book God wanted to write.

Correct. Or a few hundred bronze age barbarians could accidentally write a book like that. All the parts about slavery being ok, and murder being ok, and rape being ok, surely make it look like it was written by bronze age marauding barbarians, doesn't it?

Either way, as per your ill graced admission about the monkeys typing randomly, the existence of the Bible doesn't prove that God intervened. It's not IMPOSSIBLE for the Bible to exist in a parallel universe where God doesn't intervene.

So, good, we can strike the Bible off the list. Anything else that you wish to allege could only happen in this universe and not in the parallel one?