Gay marriage

[inviere1644]

Ok, as a moderate gay man I'm always interested to see what people on the liberal and conservative spectrums have to say about this issue. So, is it right or wrong? why or why not?

[Switgent]

So now let us begin the debate. Legality and Morality; Definition of morality; what makes an act moral or immoral. Does legalizing gay marriage makes it moral?

No. There is no relationship between whether something is legal and whether it's moral.

Legality and Morality.

What is lawful may be immoral. We ask, how do we then define moral:- involving right and wrong: relating to issues of right and wrong and to how individual people should behave. What is immoral? Defying moral principles: contrary to accepted moral principles.

For me, it's about compassion for others and reducing suffering in the world. Love and honesty are moral, and bigotry and lies are immoral. How about you?

Where does gay marriage fall in this line of argument? Is homosexuality an immoral act or a moral act.

Moral.

We can get this from the definition of morality and immorality. The key word is 'accepted principles'. So without legality a society then can decide what to perceive as moral or immoral and homosexuality cannot excape this test. In the United states not all states agree on gay marriage. What then will be the reason for not allowing it. May be it is immoral in the eyes of the law. Take this bite and let me come back again.

The law says nothing about what is moral and what is immoral. It only tells us what is legal and what is illegal.

Love

Interesting word! Love in itself deos not represent or let say feature in morality. It is the object to which the subject is acting upon and the actual act of love.

A man shows love to a poor man so he gives him a job = moral
A man shows love to a cat = he does eat cat = Moral
A man shows love to a cat = have sex with the cat = immoral

[Switgent]

Not immoral to your law; to our law it is immoral. The preamble in constitution states, "In the name of the Almighty God...". our constitution which in itself a law was instituted in the name of an Almight God. If it is indeed, in the name of this Almighty God then he has shown in all religion and who follows him that it is an abormination persons of the same sex to engage in sex, especially through the anus which is meant primarily for defecation. The primary purpose of sex in marriage as ordained by this supreme being is procreation aside pleasure.

Gay marriage satisfy only one aspect; i.e. pleasure. Tell me about artificial insemination. That is what man has to create when he or she decides to go against the natural order.

I assume that English isn't your first language. It is very possible we are having a communications issue. So, please read this carefully...

Laws are not morality. Morality is not legality. A law can be immoral. It can be moral to disobey the law.

The laws of your land and your opinion of what your God wants, have no impact whatsover on the morality of an issue.

Now, the rest of your opinions are pretty insulting for homosexual people, but nothing I have not seen before. Autodidact's reply is better than anything I'd say on the subject.

I take exception to your post about my insulting gay persons. I do not intend to insult anybody on this forum. Atleast, it is not my style. English is indeed not my first langauage but i think i am doing well.

I was trying to first of ascertain your line of argument and did so by soemtimes trhowing trivia at you to get a certain outcome. Don't take it too personal.

Try and digest this take and give me a response

Legality and Morality.

What is lawful may be immoral. We ask, how do we then define moral:- involving right and wrong: relating to issues of right and wrong and to how individual people should behave. What is immoral? Defying moral principles: contrary to accepted moral principles.

Where does gay marriage fall in this line of argument? Is homosexuality an immoral act or a moral act.

We can get this from the definition of morality and immorality. The key word is 'accepted principles'. So without legality a society then can decide what to perceive as moral or immoral and homosexuality cannot excape this test. In the United states not all states agree on gay marriage. What then will be the reason for not allowing it. May be it is immoral in the eyes of the law. Take this bite and let me come back again.

[Deadclown]

So now let us begin the debate. Legality and Morality; Definition of morality; what makes an act moral or immoral. Does legalizing gay marriage makes it moral?

Legality and Morality.

What is lawful may be immoral. We ask, how do we then define moral:- involving right and wrong: relating to issues of right and wrong and to how individual people should behave. What is immoral? Defying moral principles: contrary to accepted moral principles.

Where does gay marriage fall in this line of argument? Is homosexuality an immoral act or a moral act.

We can get this from the definition of morality and immorality. The key word is 'accepted principles'. So without legality a society then can decide what to perceive as moral or immoral and homosexuality cannot excape this test. In the United states not all states agree on gay marriage. What then will be the reason for not allowing it. May be it is immoral in the eyes of the law. Take this bite and let me come back again.

You use simplistic definitions of morality and then twist the words to suit your bias. Morality is an outgrowth of the human evolved principles of empathy and altruism. It is immoral to 'cause harm'. It is amoral (morally neutral) to 'cause no harm'. It is moral to 'prevent harm'. You must show evidence that homosexual marriage causes harm in order to make judgments on its morality. You must show conclusively that it causes more harm than good in order to make conclusive statements regarding its morality.

If you find homosexuality to be personally distasteful or against your religion, then that is your opinion, and you are entitled to it (bigoted though it might be). That is no rational reason to be dictating its morality.

Love

Interesting word! Love in itself deos not represent or let say feature in morality. It is the object to which the subject is acting upon and the actual act of love.

A man shows love to a poor man so he gives him a job = moral
A man shows love to a cat = he does eat cat = Moral
A man shows love to a cat = have sex with the cat = immoral

You are correct that love is a separate issue from morality. Although you demonstrate that your understanding of morality and ethics is still inherently flawed. In the first case, giving a man a job is a moral action (love may or may not factor into it). In the second case, causing the death of a cat is immoral because the action causes suffering/death. In the last case it is most likely immoral, NOT because bestiality is immoral inherently, but because a man having sex with a cat is likely to injure the animal.

[Deadclown]

I take exception to your post about my insulting gay persons. I do not intend to insult anybody on this forum. Atleast, it is not my style. English is indeed not my first langauage but i think i am doing well.

Falsely accusing someone of being immoral for something they cannot help, is insulting. It is as insulting as me saying you are immoral because of where you are from or the color of your skin. I agree that you are doing well for a non-native speaker, but there are still inherent difficulties communicating.

I was trying to first of ascertain your line of argument and did so by soemtimes trhowing trivia at you to get a certain outcome. Don't take it too personal.

I have not.

Try and digest this take and give me a response

Legality and Morality.

What is lawful may be immoral. We ask, how do we then define moral:- involving right and wrong: relating to issues of right and wrong and to how individual people should behave. What is immoral? Defying moral principles: contrary to accepted moral principles.

Where does gay marriage fall in this line of argument? Is homosexuality an immoral act or a moral act.

We can get this from the definition of morality and immorality. The key word is 'accepted principles'. So without legality a society then can decide what to perceive as moral or immoral and homosexuality cannot excape this test. In the United states not all states agree on gay marriage. What then will be the reason for not allowing it. May be it is immoral in the eyes of the law. Take this bite and let me come back again.

This is all repetition.

[Autodidact]

So now let us begin the debate. Legality and Morality; Definition of morality; what makes an act moral or immoral. Does legalizing gay marriage makes it moral?

No. There is no relationship between whether something is legal and whether it's moral.

Legality and Morality.

What is lawful may be immoral. We ask, how do we then define moral:- involving right and wrong: relating to issues of right and wrong and to how individual people should behave. What is immoral? Defying moral principles: contrary to accepted moral principles.

For me, it's about compassion for others and reducing suffering in the world. Love and honesty are moral, and bigotry and lies are immoral. How about you?

Where does gay marriage fall in this line of argument? Is homosexuality an immoral act or a moral act.

Moral.

We can get this from the definition of morality and immorality. The key word is 'accepted principles'. So without legality a society then can decide what to perceive as moral or immoral and homosexuality cannot excape this test. In the United states not all states agree on gay marriage. What then will be the reason for not allowing it. May be it is immoral in the eyes of the law. Take this bite and let me come back again.

The law says nothing about what is moral and what is immoral. It only tells us what is legal and what is illegal.

Love

Interesting word! Love in itself deos not represent or let say feature in morality. It is the object to which the subject is acting upon and the actual act of love.

A man shows love to a poor man so he gives him a job = moral
A man shows love to a cat = he does eat cat = Moral
A man shows love to a cat = have sex with the cat = immoral

Interesting. Love does not feature in your morality? Are you Christian?

[Switgent]

So now let us begin the debate. Legality and Morality; Definition of morality; what makes an act moral or immoral. Does legalizing gay marriage makes it moral?

Legality and Morality.

What is lawful may be immoral. We ask, how do we then define moral:- involving right and wrong: relating to issues of right and wrong and to how individual people should behave. What is immoral? Defying moral principles: contrary to accepted moral principles.

Where does gay marriage fall in this line of argument? Is homosexuality an immoral act or a moral act.

We can get this from the definition of morality and immorality. The key word is 'accepted principles'. So without legality a society then can decide what to perceive as moral or immoral and homosexuality cannot excape this test. In the United states not all states agree on gay marriage. What then will be the reason for not allowing it. May be it is immoral in the eyes of the law. Take this bite and let me come back again.

You use simplistic definitions of morality and then twist the words to suit your bias. Morality is an outgrowth of the human evolved principles of empathy and altruism. It is immoral to 'cause harm'. It is amoral (morally neutral) to 'cause no harm'. It is moral to 'prevent harm'. You must show evidence that homosexual marriage causes harm in order to make judgments on its morality. You must show conclusively that it causes more harm than good in order to make conclusive statements regarding its morality.

If you find homosexuality to be personally distasteful or against your religion, then that is your opinion, and you are entitled to it (bigoted though it might be). That is no rational reason to be dictating its morality.

Love

Interesting word! Love in itself deos not represent or let say feature in morality. It is the object to which the subject is acting upon and the actual act of love.

A man shows love to a poor man so he gives him a job = moral
A man shows love to a cat = he does eat cat = Moral
A man shows love to a cat = have sex with the cat = immoral

You are correct that love is a separate issue from morality. Although you demonstrate that your understanding of morality and ethics is still inherently flawed. In the first case, giving a man a job is a moral action (love may or may not factor into it). In the second case, causing the death of a cat is immoral because the action causes suffering/death. In the last case it is most likely immoral, NOT because bestiality is immoral inherently, but because a man having sex with a cat is likely to injure the animal.

Let me correct this: i meant to post 'A man shows love to a cat = he does NOT eat cat = Moral'

In response to your analogy as regard morality and imorality i am surprised your very assertion of morality is the term 'harm'. I am certain that immorality does not necessarily have to be a harmful act. Immorality irrespective of how harmless it may appear will still be immoral. Society decision of acceptance or rejection of an act might be its harmfulness to another (that is one aspect) and or its distastefulness or what is preceived as an anormlly outside natural law.

[Autodidact]

So now let us begin the debate. Legality and Morality; Definition of morality; what makes an act moral or immoral. Does legalizing gay marriage makes it moral?

Legality and Morality.

What is lawful may be immoral. We ask, how do we then define moral:- involving right and wrong: relating to issues of right and wrong and to how individual people should behave. What is immoral? Defying moral principles: contrary to accepted moral principles.

Where does gay marriage fall in this line of argument? Is homosexuality an immoral act or a moral act.

We can get this from the definition of morality and immorality. The key word is 'accepted principles'. So without legality a society then can decide what to perceive as moral or immoral and homosexuality cannot excape this test. In the United states not all states agree on gay marriage. What then will be the reason for not allowing it. May be it is immoral in the eyes of the law. Take this bite and let me come back again.

You use simplistic definitions of morality and then twist the words to suit your bias. Morality is an outgrowth of the human evolved principles of empathy and altruism. It is immoral to 'cause harm'. It is amoral (morally neutral) to 'cause no harm'. It is moral to 'prevent harm'. You must show evidence that homosexual marriage causes harm in order to make judgments on its morality. You must show conclusively that it causes more harm than good in order to make conclusive statements regarding its morality.

If you find homosexuality to be personally distasteful or against your religion, then that is your opinion, and you are entitled to it (bigoted though it might be). That is no rational reason to be dictating its morality.

Love

Interesting word! Love in itself deos not represent or let say feature in morality. It is the object to which the subject is acting upon and the actual act of love.

A man shows love to a poor man so he gives him a job = moral
A man shows love to a cat = he does eat cat = Moral
A man shows love to a cat = have sex with the cat = immoral

You are correct that love is a separate issue from morality. Although you demonstrate that your understanding of morality and ethics is still inherently flawed. In the first case, giving a man a job is a moral action (love may or may not factor into it). In the second case, causing the death of a cat is immoral because the action causes suffering/death. In the last case it is most likely immoral, NOT because bestiality is immoral inherently, but because a man having sex with a cat is likely to injure the animal.

Let me correct this: i meant to post 'A man shows love to a cat = he does NOT eat cat = Moral'

In response to your analogy as regard morality and imorality i am surprised your very assertion of morality is the term 'harm'. I am certain that immorality does not necessarily have to be a harmful act. Immorality irrespective of how harmless it may appear will still be immoral. Society decision of acceptance or rejection of an act might be its harmfulness to another (that is one aspect) and or its distastefulness or what is preceived as an anormlly outside natural law.

So for you, morality is not about love, but it about distaste? I repeat, are you a Christian?

[Deadclown]

Let me correct this: i meant to post 'A man shows love to a cat = he does NOT eat cat = Moral'

In response to your analogy as regard morality and imorality i am surprised your very assertion of morality is the term 'harm'. I am certain that immorality does not necessarily have to be a harmful act. Immorality irrespective of how harmless it may appear will still be immoral. Society decision of acceptance or rejection of an act might be its harmfulness to another (that is one aspect) and or its distastefulness or what is preceived as an anormlly outside natural law.

Societies do not determine morality. Morality is an objective term for human evolved precepts of altruism and empathy. They are most easily explained and quantified in terms of harm.

The easy ready example is Nazi Germany in the 30s and 40s. The society accepted and encouraged antisemitism and the ultimate torture/murder of millions of innocent people. By your definition of morality, this was a moral action, because their society accepted the act. In this way I try to point out that you seem to simply not understand what morality is.

Until you can show that homosexuality or homosexual marriage causes more harm than good, then you have no right to declare it immoral. Likewise, stating such an opinion without proper support is bigotry, and hurtful (indeed ironically, an immoral action).

[Switgent]

Let me correct this: i meant to post 'A man shows love to a cat = he does NOT eat cat = Moral'

In response to your analogy as regard morality and imorality i am surprised your very assertion of morality is the term 'harm'. I am certain that immorality does not necessarily have to be a harmful act. Immorality irrespective of how harmless it may appear will still be immoral. Society decision of acceptance or rejection of an act might be its harmfulness to another (that is one aspect) and or its distastefulness or what is preceived as an anormlly outside natural law.

Societies do not determine morality. Morality is an objective term for human evolved precepts of altruism and empathy. They are most easily explained and quantified in terms of harm.

The easy ready example is Nazi Germany in the 30s and 40s. The society accepted and encouraged antisemitism and the ultimate torture/murder of millions of innocent people. By your definition of morality, this was a moral action, because their society accepted the act. In this way I try to point out that you seem to simply not understand what morality is.

Until you can show that homosexuality or homosexual marriage causes more harm than good, then you have no right to declare it immoral. Likewise, stating such an opinion without proper support is bigotry, and hurtful (indeed ironically, an immoral action).

I am tempted to differenciate morality with a belief system. Nazism has got something with a belief system and not necessarily a call on morality. It is true that a belief system might not necessarily be moral. From this juncture, i wish to state that i have taken some few lessons from you which will assist me in my future dealings. Any way i am a christian.

[Deadclown]

I am tempted to differenciate morality with a belief system.

I understand that this is a temptation, but it is simply not how things are. Morality is an inherent human trait, just as fear of the Other (racism and bigotry) are inherent. Our beliefs and consciousness can only shape where we put the focus. Do you put it on being moral, or do you put it on being bigoted?

Nazism has got something with a belief system and not necessarily a call on morality.

Nazism is indeed a belief system. You can easily see where they allowed their beliefs to put the focus.

It is true that a belief system might not necessarily be moral. From this juncture, i wish to state that i have taken some few lessons from you which will assist me in my future dealings.

I am glad that I could help you, and look forward to future interactions. =)

Any way i am a christian.

I figured you were, and totally respect your choice to believe in whatever you think best.