What is prayer, and how does it work?

[notachance]

I am not aware of any empirical evidence for any supernatural claim. To the best of my knowledge, every single supernatural claim ever made is completely lacking of any empirical evidence.

Please prove me wrong by filling in the blacks in this sentence: "You're wrong. I possess empirical evidence for a supernatural claim. The claim is this: _______ The empirical evidence is this: ___________". If in your reply to this post, you write anything other than the sentence above, then it is understood that you too agree that there is no empirical evidence for any supernatural claim.

Hi everyone, here is my post about prayer. Nice and simple.

Claim 1: From a person who believes in an intervening God: "When I kneel at the foot of my bed, clasp my palms together, and whisper stuff, I am NOT talking to myself. I am communicating with God through the power of faith and prayer. God tells me he love me."

Claim 2: From a person who believes he was abducted by aliens: "When I stand on one foot, put a finger in my ear and yell out unintelligible words, I am NOT talking to myself. I am communicating with aliens through an invisible device they implanted in my brain last year. The aliens tell me they love me".

Question for debate: In what ways are claim 1 and claim 2 qualitatively different?

[notachance]

Claim 1: From a person who believes in an intervening God: "When I kneel at the foot of my bed, clasp my palms together, and whisper stuff, I am NOT talking to myself. I am communicating with God through the power of faith and prayer. God tells me he love me."

Claim 2: From a person who believes he was abducted by aliens: "When I stand on one foot, put a finger in my ear and yell out unintelligible words, I am NOT talking to myself. I am communicating with aliens through an invisible device they implanted in my brain last year. The aliens tell me they love me".

Question for debate: In what ways are claim 1 and claim 2 qualitatively different?

Claim 1 falls within the context of an established set of behaviors that presumably are for the good of the community, e.g., the commandments cited by Jesus according to the Gospels. Praying might be construed as the renewal and reinforcement of a commitment to act in a 'good' way. Claim 2 has none of those connotations.

How do you know that Claim 2 has none of those connotations? Maybe the person talking to aliens is convinced that the aliens want him to lead a moral and good life, helping others, being compassionate and trying to be good to the community.

Also, maybe the aliens never told the guy that gay people should be stoned to death, that women shouldn't speak in church, that rape is ok, that slavery is ok, and that non-alien-lovers will be tortured for eternity, so he is less likely to do all the evil immoral barbaric things that have been inspired by Christianity over the centuries.

[Slopeshoulder]

Prayer is the conscious act of silencing, calming, listening, aligning, accepting, hoping, releasing, expressing, discovering, contemplating, sacrilizing, and centering. It helps the pray-er.

A prayer-less life is a soul-less life, a life of thoughtless action. Mindfullness is what makes for prayer.

But the forms of prayer vary, from meditation to talking to god. As always, from the sublime to the ridiculous.

I'm about to go walk 4 miles around a lake in the hills of northern california. If I am mindful, I will quiet myself and do the above. It will be one long prayer. Tonight I'll improvize music. It will be a prayer too. What inspires me and heals me I will call divine, and I will frame this in a thematically christian way, inclining to mystical traditions, and informed by what I know of other religions.

I like the word prayer, and I wish that in the west we used it more.

[ChristShepherd]

But when you have problems in your life, can you rely on Jesus' words to be true?
We all know that Jesus' words are not true.

That’s a bold statement and I don’t believe it will be accepted in many quarters.
(I am referring to you stating what we all know.

I for one see a lot of truth in the if you seek you will find bit, whoever said it first.

How about you ask for a brand new car to appear in my driveway tomorrow morning with a full tank of gas, the title in my name, Christopher Shepherd, and the keys.
I let you know if your prayer is successful.

[notachance]

Prayer is the conscious act of silencing, calming, listening, aligning, accepting, hoping, releasing, expressing, discovering, contemplating, sacrilizing, and centering. It helps the pray-er.

A prayer-less life is a soul-less life, a life of thoughtless action. Mindfullness is what makes for prayer.

But the forms of prayer vary, from meditation to talking to god. As always, from the sublime to the ridiculous.

I'm about to go walk 4 miles around a lake in the hills of northern california. If I am mindful, I will quiet myself and do the above. It will be one long prayer. Tonight I'll improvize music. It will be a prayer too. What inspires me and heals me I will call divine, and I will frame this in a thematically christian way, inclining to mystical traditions, and informed by what I know of other religions.

I like the word prayer, and I wish that in the west we used it more.

Can somebody please answer my question? What's the difference between talking to God and talking to Aliens?

[notachance]

I see prayer as a "lost" magical art. It has become rote recitations or simple wish-making.

Prayer originally was a process of concentrated visualization, combined with emotional and mental energy, properly grounded to the physical through proper vocalization.

The spoken Word became in essence praying, this was first understood by the ancient Egyptians in the way of Affirmations and made manifest in (Heka) vibrational magic. Efforts were made to align sound with the principles of a cosmic order (natural ordering of the universe) which perhaps could be seen as a LOGOS, the dialog with that part of your Self that has the ability to create any condition you need or desire.

The invocation within a prayer unites our meditative state of consciousness with the power of the Word and our innate force of Will.

Can you please answer the question in the OP?

[Slopeshoulder]

But when you have problems in your life, can you rely on Jesus' words to be true?
We all know that Jesus' words are not true.

That’s a bold statement and I don’t believe it will be accepted in many quarters.
(I am referring to you stating what we all know.

I for one see a lot of truth in the if you seek you will find bit, whoever said it first.

How about you ask for a brand new car to appear in my driveway tomorrow morning with a full tank of gas, the title in my name, Christopher Shepherd, and the keys.
I let you know if your prayer is successful.

that would be a foolish prayer, and based upon the most crass version of prayer.

and do us "all" a favor and refrain from unsubstantiated claims about what we all allegedly know.

[Slopeshoulder]

Prayer is the conscious act of silencing, calming, listening, aligning, accepting, hoping, releasing, expressing, discovering, contemplating, sacrilizing, and centering. It helps the pray-er.

A prayer-less life is a soul-less life, a life of thoughtless action. Mindfullness is what makes for prayer.

But the forms of prayer vary, from meditation to talking to god. As always, from the sublime to the ridiculous.

I'm about to go walk 4 miles around a lake in the hills of northern california. If I am mindful, I will quiet myself and do the above. It will be one long prayer. Tonight I'll improvize music. It will be a prayer too. What inspires me and heals me I will call divine, and I will frame this in a thematically christian way, inclining to mystical traditions, and informed by what I know of other religions.

I like the word prayer, and I wish that in the west we used it more.

Can somebody please answer my question? What's the difference between talking to God and talking to Aliens?

There are no aliens listening.

There may possibly be a god listening.

But if not, there is a tradition of meaning concentrated in the word god which aids and provides a focus for prayer, sorta like a mantra. Aliens have no such mantra.
Either you're being literalist, or possibly you're overly influenced or bothered by literalists.

Personally, I take the "talking to" stuff symbolically. Literalists on both sides ruin everything. And waste a whole lot of time and energy pissing up a rope.

[Slopeshoulder]

I see prayer as a "lost" magical art. It has become rote recitations or simple wish-making.

Prayer originally was a process of concentrated visualization, combined with emotional and mental energy, properly grounded to the physical through proper vocalization.

The spoken Word became in essence praying, this was first understood by the ancient Egyptians in the way of Affirmations and made manifest in (Heka) vibrational magic. Efforts were made to align sound with the principles of a cosmic order (natural ordering of the universe) which perhaps could be seen as a LOGOS, the dialog with that part of your Self that has the ability to create any condition you need or desire.

The invocation within a prayer unites our meditative state of consciousness with the power of the Word and our innate force of Will.

Can you please answer the question in the OP?

He did. By denying it. It's the wrong question.

[notachance]

Prayer is the conscious act of silencing, calming, listening, aligning, accepting, hoping, releasing, expressing, discovering, contemplating, sacrilizing, and centering. It helps the pray-er.

A prayer-less life is a soul-less life, a life of thoughtless action. Mindfullness is what makes for prayer.

But the forms of prayer vary, from meditation to talking to god. As always, from the sublime to the ridiculous.

I'm about to go walk 4 miles around a lake in the hills of northern california. If I am mindful, I will quiet myself and do the above. It will be one long prayer. Tonight I'll improvize music. It will be a prayer too. What inspires me and heals me I will call divine, and I will frame this in a thematically christian way, inclining to mystical traditions, and informed by what I know of other religions.

I like the word prayer, and I wish that in the west we used it more.

Can somebody please answer my question? What's the difference between talking to God and talking to Aliens?

There are no aliens listening.

There may possibly be a god listening.

Please provide empirical evidence to back up this positive factual claim.

Specifically, outline the scientific process by which you have ruled out the possibility of the existence of other forms of life in the universe, as well as the possibility that they may possess the technological capability to detect us in some fashion.

Specifically, outline the statistical method by which you determine that the probability of existence of aliens is ZERO but the probability of the existence of God is non-ZERO.

[notachance]

I see prayer as a "lost" magical art. It has become rote recitations or simple wish-making.

Prayer originally was a process of concentrated visualization, combined with emotional and mental energy, properly grounded to the physical through proper vocalization.

The spoken Word became in essence praying, this was first understood by the ancient Egyptians in the way of Affirmations and made manifest in (Heka) vibrational magic. Efforts were made to align sound with the principles of a cosmic order (natural ordering of the universe) which perhaps could be seen as a LOGOS, the dialog with that part of your Self that has the ability to create any condition you need or desire.

The invocation within a prayer unites our meditative state of consciousness with the power of the Word and our innate force of Will.

Can you please answer the question in the OP?

He did. By denying it. It's the wrong question.

In what way does the way he describes prayer could not apply to a way in which somebody could be talking to aliens?