Are there any prophecies in the Bible?

[notachance]

It seems to me that the go-to "proof" that the Bible is divinely inspired are prophecies.

So I was hoping that somebody would give me an example of a prophecy that might prove the supernatural nature of the Bible.

I will write below a few criteria that I think any alleged prophecy must meet in order to qualify as "evidence of supernatural nature of the Bible"

1) The prophecy must have been demonstrably written down before the event it predicts.
A prophecy is a statement about the future, not about the past.

For example, if I wrote today, in 2011, "I hereby make the prophecy that in 2008, Barack Obama will be elected President of the United States", that is NOT a prophecy, because I'm "predicting" an event that actually already happened.

Similarly, if a 350 AD manuscript (for example the Codex Sinaiticus) talked about some battle that took place in 600BC, that wouldn't be a prediction, it would be a description of something that happened almost 1000 years earlier.

2) A prophecy must have demonstrably actually been made
An example of scenario that would NOT count as a valid prophecy would one where I write down today "10 years before he died, John Lennon told an anonymous author that he would die by being shot in the head". There is no way of verifying that John Lennon ever said that, so it's not a valid prophecy.

3) A predicted event must be reliably documented.
For example, if I said "I predict that tonight I will dream about eating ice cream" and then the next day I say "The prophecy came true! I did dream about ice cream", that would not be an accurate prophecy because it was not reliably documented. Nobody other than me knows if it's actually true that I dreamed about ice-cream.

4) A prophecy must be specific enough that it cannot be adaptable to multiple scenarios that are somewhat likely to happen eventually.
For example if I wrote "There will be a war between Christians and Muslims in the next 100 years", then I'm not making a supernatural prophecy, just an educated guess given the nature of our international relations. In order for it to even be considered as a prophecy, it would have to be something like "On March 2nd 2076, the United States will begin a campaign of drone attacks in Iran, starting with a 3:30 am raid on a military base 20 miles north of Tehran".

Another example of what would not be a prophecy would be something like "the twin towers that collapsed on 9-11 will eventually be rebuilt"

5) In order for a prophecy to be considered proof of the supernatural nature of the Bible, there has to be no other reasonable way to explaining it than by supernatural means.
If you cannot prove that purely natural explanations (chance? self-fulfilling prophecy, forgery) truly cannot account for the prophecy, then your belief in the supernatural cause of the prophecy is no more than a faith statement, and if you are using that do justify your faith, you're engaging in circular logic ("I believe in this baseless claim, because it's supported by another baseless claim").

6) An accurate prophecy cannot be considered evidence of the supernatural if it is surrounded by inaccurate prophecies.
For example if I wrote today the following statements:
"Obama will be elected in 2012"
"Pawlenty will be elected in 2012"
"Romney will be elected in 2012"
"Palin will be elected in 2012"
"Gingrich will be elected in 2012"

And one of them turned out to be correct, that would prove nothing!

7) A prophecy can only be considered evidence of the supernatural if it predicts something that is extremely unlikely.
For example this chart shows that over the last 117 years, in Seattle it has rained on August 2nd 13 times. That means that there is 11.1% chance that it will rain in Seattle on August 2nd of any given year. So if I wrote the prophecy that "On Aug 2nd 2154 it will rain in Seattle", that would be an accurate prediction, but nonetheless not evidence of supernatural powers, simply evidence of the statistical fact that I had a 11.1% chance to be right.

8) The prophecy cannot be an expression of something that many people want to see happen, because the people's will is what drives the prophecy to be fulfilled in that case, and not a supernatural power.
For example, if Martin Luther King had said "I predict that one day a black man will be US President", that would not be the kind of prediction that would prove the supernatural, because in saying that, MLK would just be verbalizing a wish that was to some degree shared by millions of blacks and whites alike. It was simple social pressure from these millions that eventually caused the prophecy to be "fulfilled". If Hillary Clinton said "One day a woman will be President" she will, by saying it, inspire people to try to make that happen. It's called a self-fulfilling prophecy.


It's almost 3am and I am a little tired. I may have to add additional bullet points later. It may also be that there is some redundancy, and that the list could be condensed while retaining it's purpose. But I think this is a good start.

Here are my two questions:

1) Do you agree that the requirements above are reasonable, if not explain why not

2) Can you think of any Bible prophecy that meets the requirements above?

(please don't link or quote 100 different prophecies, and don't then leave it to me to look them all up and debunk them all. Start by quoting the SINGLE MOST CONCLUSIVE example of a prophecy, and we can talk about that. Once we've debated it, we can move on to additional examples)

[riverslivnwtr]

Praise Allah the Merciful! You are absolutely right, Christianity breeds hatred, confusion, chaos. That's because, as the Holy Prophet clearly says, Jesus is the Son of Satan. Thank you for providing this crushing indisputable proof that Christianity is Satanic.

I just have one question for you: Why do you hate God? He created you. He is your father. Why do you hate him?

Why do you worship Satan and His Son Jesus? Why?

Quran knowledge fail. Jesus, may peace be upon Him, is not considered the son of Satan in Islam. He is regarded as the messiah in Islam just as in Christianity and is esteemed as a great prophet who foretold the coming of Mohammed.

And where in the Bible did he say such a thing about the coming of Muhammad??.

number two..Why is the death penalty given in Mauritania to those Muslims who convert to Christianity?

[notachance]

Praise Allah the Merciful! You are absolutely right, Christianity breeds hatred, confusion, chaos. That's because, as the Holy Prophet clearly says, Jesus is the Son of Satan. Thank you for providing this crushing indisputable proof that Christianity is Satanic.

I just have one question for you: Why do you hate God? He created you. He is your father. Why do you hate him?

Why do you worship Satan and His Son Jesus? Why?

Quran knowledge fail. Jesus, may peace be upon Him, is not considered the son of Satan in Islam. He is regarded as the messiah in Islam just as in Christianity and is esteemed as a great prophet who foretold the coming of Mohammed.

And where in the Bible did he say such a thing about the coming of Muhammad??.

number two..Why is the death penalty given in Mauritania to those Muslims who convert to Christianity?

Well, the Bible doesn't mention Muhammad because the Bible is written by Satan, of course! Satan is unable to pronounce or write down the name of the true prophet. It would burn his tongue or his hand.

The death penalty is given to those who convert from Islam to Christianity because worshipping the devil is evil and immoral, and those who make the decision to serve the Morning Star must be punished.

Are you opposed to the death penalty for people who rape and strangle to death hundreds of children?

Well, serving Satan and his son Jesus is infinitely worse than being a rapist murderer. It's 100% fair to execute them.

[notachance]

Praise Allah the Merciful! You are absolutely right, Christianity breeds hatred, confusion, chaos. That's because, as the Holy Prophet clearly says, Jesus is the Son of Satan. Thank you for providing this crushing indisputable proof that Christianity is Satanic.

I just have one question for you: Why do you hate God? He created you. He is your father. Why do you hate him?

Why do you worship Satan and His Son Jesus? Why?

Quran knowledge fail. Jesus, may peace be upon Him, is not considered the son of Satan in Islam. He is regarded as the messiah in Islam just as in Christianity and is esteemed as a great prophet who foretold the coming of Mohammed.

And where in the Bible did he say such a thing about the coming of Muhammad??.

number two..Why is the death penalty given in Mauritania to those Muslims who convert to Christianity?

Well, the Bible doesn't mention Muhammad because the Bible is written by Satan, of course! Satan is unable to pronounce or write down the name of the true prophet. It would burn his tongue or his hand.

The death penalty is given to those who convert from Islam to Christianity because worshipping the devil is evil and immoral, and those who make the decision to serve the Morning Star must be punished.

Are you opposed to the death penalty for people who rape and strangle to death hundreds of children?

Well, serving Satan and his son Jesus is infinitely worse than being a rapist murderer. It's 100% fair to execute them.

In case anybody is puzzled by the absurdities I've been babbling about on this thread regarding Islam, Christianity and Satanism, please be advised that these are obviously not my true opinions, but rather a commentary on my opponent's constant use of unsubstantiated supernatural claims to get his points across. It's basically an attempt to demonstrate the invalidity of his arguments by making similar arguments in reverse.

Ok, just wanted to make that clear

Also, I specifically asked one of the moderators for permission to pursue this line of argument, and permission was granted. So, if any mod gets annoyed by this and wants me to stop, please let me know, but don't give me a warning or kick me or anything, because I'm using this (admittedly obnoxious) technique with direct mod permission. I will stop if you want me to. Just saying... I asked for permission.

[arian]

A volcano erupts IRRESPECTIVE of human desires. Therefore a volcano erupting because people willed it to, would be inexplicable.

But social change, such as the creation of a nation, DOES happen because of human desires.

Yes human desires, .. but not necessarily the 'will of the people'. That is why we had to make up a 'Declaration of Independence', right Notachance?

Therefore it's by no means inexplicable that if lots of people want something to happen WHICH THEY HAVE THE POWER TO MAKE HAPPEN, then that thing happens!

There you go, ... "WHICH THEY HAVE THE POWER TO MAKE HAPPEN" Now ask yourself, ... WHO has the power to make things happen today?

It is those that rob people of their HOPE, those that claim there is no other God but them. Those that bring about destruction like the 9/11 so they could 'force' their 'protection' upon the population through surveilance.

This is no different then the Mafia robbing your store, then offering you protection for a 'price'. Yes, Satan always has his 'price' on his so called 'protection', and we the people are paying for it, big time!

If lots of people wish for a volcano eruption and it happens, it's a mystery.

If lots of people want Obama to become President and it happens, it's not a mystery.

No, .. now THAT is a MIRACLE that the god of this world made happen. Your use of the word 'people' is too vague, and it shows up in all your posts.

[riverslivnwtr]

Jesus says those who believe in him shall have rivers of living water flow within them.

John 7_37-39

I am a living witness of this reality..

now does the koran have any witnesses at all that have anything like that ???

Yes, millions of Muslims are witnesses of something like that.

I'v e only heared of one such ...and you know how these people use that ganga

no it is not in their testimony..it's all religious rules and stuff like that..

hey it's a lot of Christians like that....maybe that's why muslims came to be in the first place...Christians in the 7th century unable to deliver..perhaps because so many had been killed by the Roman empire God just gave them blood to drink...as he promised in the book of Revelation..

You are blinded by your sin and by the influence of the devil. If you approached the Koran with an open mind and an open heart, you'd find that it is the true word of God. You can't see it because you're full of hate and tribulation, and because Satan has corrupted you with all his false talk about his son Jesus.

(Moderators. Is it ok that I continue this line of argument? I'm assuming that you understand where I'm going with this. If it's not cool, let me know)

well as the bible says, who is blind as my servant? of deaf, as my messenger that i sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the lords servant?
seeing many things and seeing not and hearing many things and hearing not..
The lord is well pleased for his righteousness sake he will magnify the law and make it honourable..

Yada yada yada. Here is the only thing that is definitely 100% true and nobody can deny. You worship the devil. That's why you fail to see that Allah is the One True God and Mohammed is His Prophet.

You hate God, and that's why you worship Satan.

Also, you worship Satan because by doing that you can continue sinning without being answerable to anybody. And probably you had some bad experience with Islam when you were a child, and that's why you can't find it in you to love the One True God, Allah the Merciful.

That's it. This truth appeared to me in a personal revelation that was very very powerful, therefore it cannot be disputed. It's true. You worship Satan.

Praise Allah.

but Jesus said, that those who come to him would be at war with there own families..A father against his son; a mother against family and so on...incidently there is another prediction made by Jesus how division over him would divide...and this is found everywhere Christianity is ...

Praise Allah the Merciful! You are absolutely right, Christianity breeds hatred, confusion, chaos. That's because, as the Holy Prophet clearly says, Jesus is the Son of Satan. Thank you for providing this crushing indisputable proof that Christianity is Satanic.

I just have one question for you: Why do you hate God? He created you. He is your father. Why do you hate him?

Why do you worship Satan and His Son Jesus? Why?

It seems you have strayed away from your original concept about biblical prophecies which I have richly provided you with fulfilled prophecy and of course you are covering up your failure to properly dispute it..
How did Islam enter into this thread..I was talking about Daniel chp 2 ??

you accuse me with being blind..and I say that's not a bad thing with my response ..the bible blesses those with a single mind...Islam is another story..I don't wish to argue it with you ..

Those who worship Satan are quick to hide in shame when discovered. No wonder you don't want to talk about it. Go back to your dark basement and enjoy your satanic rituals. Praise Allah.

are you giving up on Daniel Chapter two which clearly defines Jesus conquering the Roman Empire.. with his resurrection and Christianity consuming the whole thing..eventually all the earth???

[notachance]

Yes, millions of Muslims are witnesses of something like that.

I'v e only heared of one such ...and you know how these people use that ganga

no it is not in their testimony..it's all religious rules and stuff like that..

hey it's a lot of Christians like that....maybe that's why muslims came to be in the first place...Christians in the 7th century unable to deliver..perhaps because so many had been killed by the Roman empire God just gave them blood to drink...as he promised in the book of Revelation..

You are blinded by your sin and by the influence of the devil. If you approached the Koran with an open mind and an open heart, you'd find that it is the true word of God. You can't see it because you're full of hate and tribulation, and because Satan has corrupted you with all his false talk about his son Jesus.

(Moderators. Is it ok that I continue this line of argument? I'm assuming that you understand where I'm going with this. If it's not cool, let me know)

well as the bible says, who is blind as my servant? of deaf, as my messenger that i sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the lords servant?
seeing many things and seeing not and hearing many things and hearing not..
The lord is well pleased for his righteousness sake he will magnify the law and make it honourable..

Yada yada yada. Here is the only thing that is definitely 100% true and nobody can deny. You worship the devil. That's why you fail to see that Allah is the One True God and Mohammed is His Prophet.

You hate God, and that's why you worship Satan.

Also, you worship Satan because by doing that you can continue sinning without being answerable to anybody. And probably you had some bad experience with Islam when you were a child, and that's why you can't find it in you to love the One True God, Allah the Merciful.

That's it. This truth appeared to me in a personal revelation that was very very powerful, therefore it cannot be disputed. It's true. You worship Satan.

Praise Allah.

but Jesus said, that those who come to him would be at war with there own families..A father against his son; a mother against family and so on...incidently there is another prediction made by Jesus how division over him would divide...and this is found everywhere Christianity is ...

Praise Allah the Merciful! You are absolutely right, Christianity breeds hatred, confusion, chaos. That's because, as the Holy Prophet clearly says, Jesus is the Son of Satan. Thank you for providing this crushing indisputable proof that Christianity is Satanic.

I just have one question for you: Why do you hate God? He created you. He is your father. Why do you hate him?

Why do you worship Satan and His Son Jesus? Why?

It seems you have strayed away from your original concept about biblical prophecies which I have richly provided you with fulfilled prophecy and of course you are covering up your failure to properly dispute it..
How did Islam enter into this thread..I was talking about Daniel chp 2 ??

you accuse me with being blind..and I say that's not a bad thing with my response ..the bible blesses those with a single mind...Islam is another story..I don't wish to argue it with you ..

Those who worship Satan are quick to hide in shame when discovered. No wonder you don't want to talk about it. Go back to your dark basement and enjoy your satanic rituals. Praise Allah.

are you giving up on Daniel Chapter two which clearly defines Jesus conquering the Roman Empire.. with his resurrection and Christianity consuming the whole thing..eventually all the earth???

That text was written in 350 AD when Christianity had ALREADY conquered the roman empire. How is it a mystery that someone would write down that which already happened?

Please strop trying to change the subject. You have to repent for having engaged in the satanic ritual of prayer to Jesus or you will burn in hell for all eternity.

PRaise Allah!

[Paradigm]

Praise Allah the Merciful! You are absolutely right, Christianity breeds hatred, confusion, chaos. That's because, as the Holy Prophet clearly says, Jesus is the Son of Satan. Thank you for providing this crushing indisputable proof that Christianity is Satanic.

I just have one question for you: Why do you hate God? He created you. He is your father. Why do you hate him?

Why do you worship Satan and His Son Jesus? Why?

Quran knowledge fail. Jesus, may peace be upon Him, is not considered the son of Satan in Islam. He is regarded as the messiah in Islam just as in Christianity and is esteemed as a great prophet who foretold the coming of Mohammed.

And where in the Bible did he say such a thing about the coming of Muhammad??.

"And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!" ", Qur'an 61:6

number two..Why is the death penalty given in Mauritania to those Muslims who convert to Christianity?

For the same reasons that Christians tortured and killed Muslims during the crusades and inquisition. It is what I affectionately call 'the human condition.'

[notachance]

Praise Allah the Merciful! You are absolutely right, Christianity breeds hatred, confusion, chaos. That's because, as the Holy Prophet clearly says, Jesus is the Son of Satan. Thank you for providing this crushing indisputable proof that Christianity is Satanic.

I just have one question for you: Why do you hate God? He created you. He is your father. Why do you hate him?

Why do you worship Satan and His Son Jesus? Why?

Quran knowledge fail. Jesus, may peace be upon Him, is not considered the son of Satan in Islam. He is regarded as the messiah in Islam just as in Christianity and is esteemed as a great prophet who foretold the coming of Mohammed.

And where in the Bible did he say such a thing about the coming of Muhammad??.

"And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!" ", Qur'an 61:6

number two..Why is the death penalty given in Mauritania to those Muslims who convert to Christianity?

For the same reasons that Christians tortured and killed Muslims during the crusades and inquisition. It is what I affectionately call 'the human condition.'

Hey Paradigm. Welcome back to the thread. You saw my yes/no questions and my answers to yours? Let's keep our debate moving. Let me know what you think.

[Goat]

And where in the Bible did he say such a thing about the coming of Muhammad??.

"And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!" ", Qur'an 61:6

Uh.. that is a quote from the Quran, which was written down after Mohammed died. That is not a prophecy, but an after the fact story.

[notachance]

And where in the Bible did he say such a thing about the coming of Muhammad??.

"And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!" ", Qur'an 61:6

Uh.. that is a quote from the Quran, which was written down after Mohammed died. That is not a prophecy, but an after the fact story.

Oh! Do prophecies have to be written before the event they predict?

You might think it's a joke, but for the last few weeks I've been debating against the notion that a book written in 350 AD contains prophecies about event in 400 BC.

You'd think that it's self evident that the prophecy needs to certifiably precede the event it predicts. I made that the first criterion to identify a prophecy in my OP. And yet the most frequent point of contention on this thread relates to the assertion by theists that a prophecy can be written down centuries after the event in question, and still constitute evidence of the ability to predict the future.