Are the Jews Israel?

[christian1488]

Are the Jews Israel?

Simple question,any answers?

[Slopeshoulder]

Don't most tribes that are conquered basically intermarry and dissipate? Is this not true the world over, througout history?

I'm Irish, Scottish and German. But my family names on both sides are Norman, which also suggest there was an English phase. My wife is irish and italian and 1/8 jewish. Whatever, we're american; never met any of them. I have friends that are irish-cherokee, korean-brazilion, and russian(jewish)-irish, and just a generation ago, without any conquestin' going on, exceptin' maybe in the boudoir. A good friend is black and so is is wife, but they both have white in them from way back, English captians and planters.

Aren't these ancient Israel tribes lost and irrelevant now, through intermarriage (or enslavement-rape)? Weren't they lost within a few generations, in situ? Isn't their story the same as that of countless others? Why would they have migrated and maintained an identity? Whither and whence this fascination? This strikes me as an eccentric hooby, much like reading the so-called book of revelation as a predictor of future or current events.

The Assyrians butt-kicked and absorbed oodles of peeps. As did everyone else. Buh-bye tribes. End of story. I would think. And no amatuer pseudo-scholarship by individual eccentrics speculating outside their area of expertise changes that. Brits are no more lost isrealite tribes than than the ancient greeks were aryan.
Sheer crackpotism.
A good way to waste a few minutes.
But a life?

[christian1488]

Don't most tribes that are conquered basically intermarry and dissipate? Is this not true the world over, througout history?

I'm Irish, Scottish and German. But my family names on both sides are Norman, which also suggest there was an English phase. My wife is irish and italian and 1/8 jewish. Whatever, we're american; never met any of them. I have friends that are irish-cherokee, korean-brazilion, and russian(jewish)-irish, and just a generation ago, without any conquestin' going on, exceptin' maybe in the boudoir. A good friend is black and so is is wife, but they both have white in them from way back, English captians and planters.

Aren't these ancient Israel tribes lost and irrelevant now, through intermarriage (or enslavement-rape)? Weren't they lost within a few generations, in situ? Isn't their story the same as that of countless others? Why would they have migrated and maintained an identity? Whither and whence this fascination? This strikes me as an eccentric hooby, much like reading the so-called book of revelation as a predictor of future or current events.

The Assyrians butt-kicked and absorbed oodles of peeps. As did everyone else. Buh-bye tribes. End of story. I would think. And no amatuer pseudo-scholarship by individual eccentrics speculating outside their area of expertise changes that. Brits are no more lost isrealite tribes than than the ancient greeks were aryan.
Sheer crackpotism.
A good way to waste a few minutes.
But a life?

How are tribes irrelevant now?

Matthew 15:24:But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

How could Jesus be sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel if they did not exist anymore through intermarriage?

Luke 19:10:For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

How could Jesus seek and save a people,if they did not exist anymore?

The tribes migrated and lost their identity...

[Slopeshoulder]

Don't most tribes that are conquered basically intermarry and dissipate? Is this not true the world over, througout history?

I'm Irish, Scottish and German. But my family names on both sides are Norman, which also suggest there was an English phase. My wife is irish and italian and 1/8 jewish. Whatever, we're american; never met any of them. I have friends that are irish-cherokee, korean-brazilion, and russian(jewish)-irish, and just a generation ago, without any conquestin' going on, exceptin' maybe in the boudoir. A good friend is black and so is is wife, but they both have white in them from way back, English captians and planters.

Aren't these ancient Israel tribes lost and irrelevant now, through intermarriage (or enslavement-rape)? Weren't they lost within a few generations, in situ? Isn't their story the same as that of countless others? Why would they have migrated and maintained an identity? Whither and whence this fascination? This strikes me as an eccentric hooby, much like reading the so-called book of revelation as a predictor of future or current events.

The Assyrians butt-kicked and absorbed oodles of peeps. As did everyone else. Buh-bye tribes. End of story. I would think. And no amatuer pseudo-scholarship by individual eccentrics speculating outside their area of expertise changes that. Brits are no more lost isrealite tribes than than the ancient greeks were aryan.
Sheer crackpotism.
A good way to waste a few minutes.
But a life?

How are tribes irrelevant now?

Um, because they disappeared and dissapated. The relevance would be historical.

Matthew 15:24:But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

I don't read the bible as literal or as history. I take this narrative, which Jesus might or might not have said, and probably didn't, to be metaphorical. Matthew is talking about covenant. His theological agenda includes a reimagining of covenant via the experience and interpretation of the Jesus events. e is doing so in the unique form of the gospel, a theological narrative. Surely you don't take it at some sort of face value as a reference to those folks trounced by the assyrians? In 25 years of studying religion, including in seminary, that strikes me as a rather eccentric reading, way outside the mainstream of scholarship and exegesis.

How could Jesus be sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel if they did not exist anymore through intermarriage?

See above.
I suggest you read up on modern academic seminary and divinity school-based professional biblical exegesis.

Luke 19:10:For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

How could Jesus seek and save a people,if they did not exist anymore?

See above. Your reading is amatuerish and misguided.

The tribes migrated and lost their identity...

really?
proof? from peer reviewed journals like the journal of the society of biblical literature etc?

[christian1488]

Don't most tribes that are conquered basically intermarry and dissipate? Is this not true the world over, througout history?

I'm Irish, Scottish and German. But my family names on both sides are Norman, which also suggest there was an English phase. My wife is irish and italian and 1/8 jewish. Whatever, we're american; never met any of them. I have friends that are irish-cherokee, korean-brazilion, and russian(jewish)-irish, and just a generation ago, without any conquestin' going on, exceptin' maybe in the boudoir. A good friend is black and so is is wife, but they both have white in them from way back, English captians and planters.

Aren't these ancient Israel tribes lost and irrelevant now, through intermarriage (or enslavement-rape)? Weren't they lost within a few generations, in situ? Isn't their story the same as that of countless others? Why would they have migrated and maintained an identity? Whither and whence this fascination? This strikes me as an eccentric hooby, much like reading the so-called book of revelation as a predictor of future or current events.

The Assyrians butt-kicked and absorbed oodles of peeps. As did everyone else. Buh-bye tribes. End of story. I would think. And no amatuer pseudo-scholarship by individual eccentrics speculating outside their area of expertise changes that. Brits are no more lost isrealite tribes than than the ancient greeks were aryan.
Sheer crackpotism.
A good way to waste a few minutes.
But a life?

How are tribes irrelevant now?

Um, because they disappeared and dissapated. The relevance would be historical.

Matthew 15:24:But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

I don't read the bible as literal or as history. I take this narrative, which Jesus might or might not have said, and probably didn't, to be metaphorical. Matthew is talking about covenant. His theological agenda includes a reimagining of covenant via the experience and interpretation of the Jesus events. e is doing so in the unique form of the gospel, a theological narrative. Surely you don't take it at some sort of face value as a reference to those folks trounced by the assyrians? In 25 years of studying religion, including in seminary, that strikes me as a rather eccentric reading, way outside the mainstream of scholarship and exegesis.

How could Jesus be sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel if they did not exist anymore through intermarriage?

See above.
I suggest you read up on modern academic seminary and divinity school-based professional biblical exegesis.

Luke 19:10:For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

How could Jesus seek and save a people,if they did not exist anymore?

See above. Your reading is amatuerish and misguided.

The tribes migrated and lost their identity...

really?
proof? from peer reviewed journals like the journal of the society of biblical literature etc?

http://www.israelect.com/ChurchOfTrueIs ... omise.html - Heirs of the Promise

[Malachi-Zede-El]

Adam; Eve; Cain, son of Adam and Eve; Abel, son of Adam and Eve; Enoch, son of Jared; Lamech, son of Methuselah; Seth, son of Adam and Eve; Enos, son of Seth; Cainan, son of Enos; Mahalaleel, son of Cainan; Jared, son of Ahaleel; Methuselah, son of Enoch; Noah, son of Lamech; Ham, son of Noah; Shem, son of Noah; Japheth, son of Noah; Elam, son of Shem; Asshur, son of Shem; Arphaxad, son of Shem; Lud, son of Shem; Aram, son of Shem; Salah, son of Arphaxad; Eber, son of Salah; Peleg, son of Eber; Reu, son of Peleg; Serug, son of Reu; Nahow, son of Serug; Terah, son of Nahor;

We are debating in an apologetics forum, therefore there is no a priori presumption that the Bible record is true. All of these people are from the Jewish creation myths and have no basis in historical fact. So, in that sense, they are Jewish in the same sense that Ask and Embla are Norse. Of course, if you read the myths as history, then these people were the forerunners of the Jews and other Semitic and non-Semitic peoples.

What then was the religion of these hypothetical people? Presumably, they knew and worshiped the One God, same as the Jews, but they did not have the same covenant. They would have had the seven laws of Noah.

Now, according to the same sources, who is Israel? Of course, Israel is the people descended from Jacob, son of Isaac, son of Abraham. According to tradition he had twelve sons and one daughter by his four wives and concubines:

[row]by Leah [col]Reuben (1); Simeon (2); Levi (3); Judah (4); Issachar (9); Zebulun (10); Dinah (D)[row]by Rachel [col]Joseph (11); Benjamin (12)[row]by Bilhah (Rachel's servant) [col]Dan (5); Naphtali (6)[row]by Zilpah (Leah's servant) [col]Gad (7); Asher (8)

Joseph's two sons Mannasseh and Ephraim were counted as patriarchs of one tribe each.

When the United Monarchy of Israel split, the northern portion became known as the Kingdom of Israel and the southern portion became known as the Kingdom of Judah (consisting of the Tribe of Judah, the Tribe of Simeon, the Tribe of Benjamin and some of the people of the Tribe of Levi). The Kingdom of Israel was conquered by the Assyrian Empire in about 720 BCE. They disappeared from Biblical and all other historical accounts after the kingdom was destroyed, and became known as the ten lost tribes. There has been much speculation but little factual evidence regarding their eventual fate.

For the post-exilic period, beginning in the 5th century BCE, the remnants of the Israelites came to be referred to as Jews, named for the kingdom of Judah.

Nice side stepping , I know you read my post where I explain the word Hebrew / Israel , both word are nothing more then Title , That why I ask was Israel , A name of a tribe or people . Than I ask the question were the descendants before Abraham Hebrew / Isralites . I knew you knew that I was on to something . That why you went out your way to Lable me . I also ask you about the Inter-lock six pointed stair . And you never answer me .

Understand something if you can . I don't think any human being on this planet better then another , But that doesn't mean I don't know they're some who feel they're above or even better then other's . meaning just because one knows something doesn't make them Evil or Anti-this or that . When you hear / read the word anti - its just another code word = he / she against me . The media / power-that be use this powerful tool to trun the Public against those who they fear .

I notice you use the word Anti alot with other evil words . Nobody out to get you .it only a discussion , I have also notice you have no problem putting down other people faith / belief's / thought's . Is that why your so Aggressive ?

[Slopeshoulder]

http://www.israelect.com/ChurchOfTrueIs ... omise.html - Heirs of the Promise

Is this a joke?
I said peer reviewed top tier academic scholarship, like from a member in good standing with the American Academy of Religion or the Society for Biblical Literature (who's annual conference I attended tonight and will again on sunday).
This is fringe amatuerish drivel you've given me.
Do you know the difference?

[christian1488]

http://www.israelect.com/ChurchOfTrueIs ... omise.html - Heirs of the Promise

Is this a joke?
I said peer reviewed top tier academic scholarship, like from a member in good standing with the American Academy of Religion or the Society for Biblical Literature (who's annual conference I attended tonight and will again on sunday).
This is fringe amatuerish drivel you've given me.
Do you know the difference?

My link offers and explanation of what happened to the Assyrian Captives,I guess you would have them that they intermarried or disappeared off the face of the earth.....


Migrations of the Ancient Israelites




The above map shows the early migrations of the Israelites from Ancient Israel to Assyria. The map below shows the migrations after the downfall of the Assyrian Empire. The Israelites went north and west to settle what we now call Europe.




Amos 9:9:For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

[Malachi-Zede-El]

Adam; Eve; Cain, son of Adam and Eve; Abel, son of Adam and Eve; Enoch, son of Jared; Lamech, son of Methuselah; Seth, son of Adam and Eve; Enos, son of Seth; Cainan, son of Enos; Mahalaleel, son of Cainan; Jared, son of Ahaleel; Methuselah, son of Enoch; Noah, son of Lamech; Ham, son of Noah; Shem, son of Noah; Japheth, son of Noah; Elam, son of Shem; Asshur, son of Shem; Arphaxad, son of Shem; Lud, son of Shem; Aram, son of Shem; Salah, son of Arphaxad; Eber, son of Salah; Peleg, son of Eber; Reu, son of Peleg; Serug, son of Reu; Nahow, son of Serug; Terah, son of Nahor;

We are debating in an apologetics forum, therefore there is no a priori presumption that the Bible record is true. All of these people are from the Jewish creation myths and have no basis in historical fact. So, in that sense, they are Jewish in the same sense that Ask and Embla are Norse. Of course, if you read the myths as history, then these people were the forerunners of the Jews and other Semitic and non-Semitic peoples.

What then was the religion of these hypothetical people? Presumably, they knew and worshiped the One God, same as the Jews, but they did not have the same covenant. They would have had the seven laws of Noah.

Now, according to the same sources, who is Israel? Of course, Israel is the people descended from Jacob, son of Isaac, son of Abraham. According to tradition he had twelve sons and one daughter by his four wives and concubines:

[row]by Leah [col]Reuben (1); Simeon (2); Levi (3); Judah (4); Issachar (9); Zebulun (10); Dinah (D)[row]by Rachel [col]Joseph (11); Benjamin (12)[row]by Bilhah (Rachel's servant) [col]Dan (5); Naphtali (6)[row]by Zilpah (Leah's servant) [col]Gad (7); Asher (8)

Joseph's two sons Mannasseh and Ephraim were counted as patriarchs of one tribe each.

When the United Monarchy of Israel split, the northern portion became known as the Kingdom of Israel and the southern portion became known as the Kingdom of Judah (consisting of the Tribe of Judah, the Tribe of Simeon, the Tribe of Benjamin and some of the people of the Tribe of Levi). The Kingdom of Israel was conquered by the Assyrian Empire in about 720 BCE. They disappeared from Biblical and all other historical accounts after the kingdom was destroyed, and became known as the ten lost tribes. There has been much speculation but little factual evidence regarding their eventual fate.

For the post-exilic period, beginning in the 5th century BCE, the remnants of the Israelites came to be referred to as Jews, named for the kingdom of Judah.

Mc < says > We are debating in an apologetics forum, [ therefore there is no a priori presumption that the Bible record is true ]

What make Jewish Book ( True ) ?

[Slopeshoulder]

Mc < says > We are debating in an apologetics forum, [ therefore there is no a priori presumption that the Bible record is true ]

What make Jewish Book ( True ) ?

me < say> what (are...) {you// trying *** to : <say>} with your (symbols and syntax)?

[Malachi-Zede-El]

Mc < says > We are debating in an apologetics forum, [ therefore there is no a priori presumption that the Bible record is true ]

What make Jewish Book ( True ) ?

me < say> what (are...) {you// trying *** to : <say>} with your (symbols and syntax)?

It means you have to put on the big shoes and hat to be funny .