If the Christian God is just

[SomePunk]

Then that means the Christian God forgives people for not believing in him or her or it.

So no one has to believe in god or follow any one religion to be saved and that means no one needs a savior. Which means religion isnt needed because it doesnt serve a purpose.

Am I right?

[AquinasD]

Then that means the Christian God forgives people for not believing in him or her or it.

It really depends on the person's culpability, i.e. the reasons for the person's lack of belief. If they didn't believe because they simply didn't want to, and refused to intellectually pursue the idea, they are much more culpable for their non-belief than a person who pursued the idea with their whole intellect in good faith.

[McCulloch]

It really depends on the person's culpability, i.e. the reasons for the person's lack of belief. If they didn't believe because they simply didn't want to, and refused to intellectually pursue the idea, they are much more culpable for their non-belief than a person who pursued the idea with their whole intellect in good faith.

So, if I truly care deeply whether God is and if he exists, what he wants from me, I will be saved without regard to whether I actually believe. Is that taught in the Christian scriptures? What about the promise that all who seek will find?

[Ernestalice]

Then that means the Christian God forgives people for not believing in him or her or it.

So no one has to believe in god or follow any one religion to be saved and that means no one needs a savior. Which means religion isnt needed because it doesnt serve a purpose.

Am I right?

1. "Christian God forgives people for not believing in him or her or it."
Actually, I think it's right. Ask and you will be given. If the person asks for it (since s/he acknowledged that s/he was wrong), I don't see why God can't forgive him or her.

2. "No one has to believe in god or follow any one religion to be saved and that means no one needs a savior."
It depends on the person if s/he needs a savior or not. And to be saved, of course you should believe in the savior. If you don't believe on the hand that trying to reach and save you, how could you even catch on the hand? Maybe you don't need it because you still can do it by yourself, and I don't think it's a bad thing. God is always there for the one who seeks Him anyway. So nothing to worry about.

3. "Religion isn't needed because it doesn't serve a purpose."
You can say that because you live in this century with religion existing. It's not the ppl with good condition who need and improve the medical and science. There were ppl who needed religion in our history that make it existed. So I think it did serve a purpose and still does to some of ppl.

[Flail]

Then that means the Christian God forgives people for not believing in him or her or it.

So no one has to believe in god or follow any one religion to be saved and that means no one needs a savior. Which means religion isnt needed because it doesnt serve a purpose.

Am I right?

The way in which I read Jesus' take on the BibleGod is that beliefs are irrelevant and that what you think you believe or say you believe or act like you believe or don't believe is trumped by how you act toward others and conduct your life (see Good Samaritan parable wherein the single act of altruism by the 'non-believer' outweighs an entire lifetime devoted to 'beliefs and worship' of the Priest and the Levite).

The proof is in the pudding (how we treat others) for Jesus it seems; 'do unto others as you would have them do unto you'; 'when you do it to the least of mine, you do it to me'; 'God does not want your sacrifices( beliefs) but rather your kindness' (toward others); 'judge not (others) lest ye be judged' ; 'forgive our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.' Beliefs are about the self and church worship too much about grandstanding for BibleGod; whereas Jesus' focus was outward and about 'others'.

[dianaiad]

It really depends on the person's culpability, i.e. the reasons for the person's lack of belief. If they didn't believe because they simply didn't want to, and refused to intellectually pursue the idea, they are much more culpable for their non-belief than a person who pursued the idea with their whole intellect in good faith.

So, if I truly care deeply whether God is and if he exists, what he wants from me, I will be saved without regard to whether I actually believe. Is that taught in the Christian scriptures? What about the promise that all who seek will find?

I can't speak for all Christianity. That's the problem, come to think of it, when anybody attacks or defends 'Christians.' Nobody can speak to, or against, ALL of it.

Atheists should have a clear understanding of this problem, since the plaint is constantly that the only thing 'atheism' means is a lack of belief in God. Therefore any attempt to say that 'all atheists' believe or do this thing or that thing is attacked with every sharp rhetorical implement within mental reach.

Since the only thing "all Christians' have in common is a belief in the teachings of a certain Jesus Christ (as that particular Christian thinks they are), then it's rather difficult to make wholesale attacks upon 'Christianity' and make 'em stick to the whole bunch.

THAT long disclaimer made, let's look at the specific Christian (because I am one) belief I hold. That is, first: I believe that we are held to the standards of whatever truths we do hold. That is, we aren't held responsible for obeying laws we don't know about. Mortal law, almost everywhere, states that 'ignorance of the law is no excuse.' I believe, as does the church I belong to, that it is EVERY excuse. The atheist, we believe, isn't going to be judged according to how good a Christian he wasn't--but according to how good an atheist he WAS.

The same goes for Hindus, Muslims, Buddhist and Baptists. What we DO believe is that, rather like being dumped in the middle of a city and given an address, the man who knows the city is going to get to his destination faster than the man who still has to learn his way around--and less likely to get hopelessly lost.

As to the 'seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you,' yeah, we believe that to be very, very true.

..............but I sure didn't see a deadline in there, did you? We DO have eternity to learn stuff. Why do we have to do it all here? I believe that this life, this very short period of time (compared to eternity) is a test of...not ability, but of inclination. What we make of our lives here is probably a pretty good indication of how we will deal with what comes later. We don't HAVE to learn everything now....we just have to get started.

[1213]

Then that means the Christian God forgives people for not believing in him or her or it.

So no one has to believe in god or follow any one religion to be saved and that means no one needs a savior. Which means religion isnt needed because it doesnt serve a purpose.

Am I right?

What do you think about this:

If anyone listens to my sayings, and doesn't believe, I don't judge him. For I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He who rejects me, and doesn't receive my sayings, has one who judges him. The word that I spoke, the same will judge him in the last day.
John 12:47-48

Reason for judgment is:

This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the light, and doesn't come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God.
John 3:19-21

According to Bible, only righteous will have eternal life.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

So, if you want eternal life, you have to be or become righteous. That can happen by believing what Jesus said.

If you can tolerate more not so good english, you may read more of this from my site:
http://www.kolumbus.fi/r.berg/index_eng.html

[SomePunk]

Then that means the Christian God forgives people for not believing in him or her or it.

It really depends on the person's culpability, i.e. the reasons for the person's lack of belief. If they didn't believe because they simply didn't want to, and refused to intellectually pursue the idea, they are much more culpable for their non-belief than a person who pursued the idea with their whole intellect in good faith.

Why do you think non-believers deserve to be blamed or punished for something that isnt reasonable to believe, while a believer gets a free ride Choosing not to believe isnt a choice it is like a force of nature that was placed on people by those that chose to believe in their fake religions. If you are a Christian and you truly believe then you would realize that all are forgiven despite their faith or lack of belief.

Take this for example; God cant forgive person A for persons B sins. Asking god to forgive you for your sins isnt the same as asking god to forgive the people who chose to rebel against Jesus for their sins (in a historical context). So one cant ask for a sin too be forgiven if it was a sin they didnt commit.

[SomePunk]

Then that means the Christian God forgives people for not believing in him or her or it.

So no one has to believe in god or follow any one religion to be saved and that means no one needs a savior. Which means religion isnt needed because it doesnt serve a purpose.

Am I right?

3. "Religion isn't needed because it doesn't serve a purpose."
You can say that because you live in this century with religion existing. It's not the ppl with good condition who need and improve the medical and science. There were ppl who needed religion in our history that make it existed. So I think it did serve a purpose and still does to some of ppl.

If religion didnt exist nor would every other religion. If it wasnt for paganism you wouldnt have Judaism. If it wasnt for Judaism you wouldnt have Christianity and if it wasnt for the previous you wouldnt have Islam. They are all influenced by past religions. That doesnt mean they are any better or deserve any more credit either. It just means they chose not to believe in pervious or past religions and decided to believe in something different.

[dianaiad]

Then that means the Christian God forgives people for not believing in him or her or it.

It really depends on the person's culpability, i.e. the reasons for the person's lack of belief. If they didn't believe because they simply didn't want to, and refused to intellectually pursue the idea, they are much more culpable for their non-belief than a person who pursued the idea with their whole intellect in good faith.

Why do you think non-believers deserve to be blamed or punished for something that isnt reasonable to believe, while a believer gets a free ride Choosing not to believe isnt a choice it is like a force of nature that was placed on people by those that chose to believe in their fake religions. If you are a Christian and you truly believe then you would realize that all are forgiven despite their faith or lack of belief.

That is certainly one of the most circular arguments I"ve heard; in essence, you are claiming that God should forgive all those who don't believe in him because, well, He doesn't exist to blame anybody anyway?

Er....OK.

Take this for example; God cant forgive person A for persons B sins. Asking god to forgive you for your sins isnt the same as asking god to forgive the people who chose to rebel against Jesus for their sins (in a historical context). So one cant ask for a sin too be forgiven if it was a sin they didnt commit.

OK, now you've lost me. WHAT are you talking about?

If it is the thing about 'original sin,' I agree; we should be judged for our own transgressions, and not for the actions of Adam. However, I don't see where this idea fits into this thread, or argument.