Are the Jews Israel?

[christian1488]

Are the Jews Israel?

Simple question,any answers?

[JoeyKnothead]

What (quite uncivil and entirely uncalled for ) she feel she can say whatever she feel like either because of her age or because she bows the jews here when she should stay in her place ,

(Both eyebrows raised so high they have disappeared into my grey roots...and likely to be glued there...)

Y'know, I haven't been told to 'stay in my place' since I was in the first grade and kept trying to push Michael Reed out of his chair. I liked him, you see, and he was ignoring me.

Worked, too.

Mentioned this'n using other means, now I'm bumping it to ensure the least miss it that hasta.

We would ask the Lady, please refrain from commenting on the posts of male respondents. It seems we've found one for which having a lady speak - much less such a wise one - is just too terribly upsetting.

But really, Ma'am, the men are talking

[Goat]

Scripture defines Israel as the servant, the witness of the Lord. It also describes the servant of the Lord. So no, the Jewish people are not Israel.

It is written;

"You are my witnesses Israel, my servants whom I have chosen."

"Here is my servant whom I uphold, my chosen one with whom I am pleased,upon whom I have put my spirit, he will proclaim justice to the nations."

How does that say that the Jews are not Israel.. the writer of Isaiah Deutro is calling the Jewish people the servant of the Lord (as a nation)..

The Nation of Israel is also referred to as "Jacob", because it is tradition that the Jewish people are descended from Jacob

[Prince]

Scripture defines Israel as the servant, the witness of the Lord. It also describes the servant of the Lord. So no, the Jewish people are not Israel.

It is written;

"You are my witnesses Israel, my servants whom I have chosen."

"Here is my servant whom I uphold, my chosen one with whom I am pleased,upon whom I have put my spirit, he will proclaim justice to the nations."

How does that say that the Jews are not Israel.. the writer of Isaiah Deutro is calling the Jewish people the servant of the Lord (as a nation)..

The Nation of Israel is also referred to as "Jacob", because it is tradition that the Jewish people are descended from Jacob

Prince Wrote;

No, it is saying that the servant, the witness is Israel. Those who serve the Lord are Israel/ Jacob.

Scripture says;

Remember this, O Jacob, you, O Israel, who are my servant! I formed you to be a servant to me. It is I who confirm the words of my servants, I carry out the plan announced by my messengers.


To the outsiders who observe my sabbaths and choose what pleases me and hold fast to my covenant: I will give, in my house and within my walls, a monument and a name Better than sons and daughters; an eternal, imperishable name I shall give them. For my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.

But he who takes refuge in me shall inherit the land, and possess my holy mountain.

[Goat]

Scripture defines Israel as the servant, the witness of the Lord. It also describes the servant of the Lord. So no, the Jewish people are not Israel.

It is written;

"You are my witnesses Israel, my servants whom I have chosen."

"Here is my servant whom I uphold, my chosen one with whom I am pleased,upon whom I have put my spirit, he will proclaim justice to the nations."

How does that say that the Jews are not Israel.. the writer of Isaiah Deutro is calling the Jewish people the servant of the Lord (as a nation)..

The Nation of Israel is also referred to as "Jacob", because it is tradition that the Jewish people are descended from Jacob

Prince Wrote;

No, it is saying that the servant, the witness is Israel. Those who serve the Lord are Israel/ Jacob.

Scripture says;

Remember this, O Jacob, you, O Israel, who are my servant! I formed you to be a servant to me. It is I who confirm the words of my servants, I carry out the plan announced by my messengers.


To the outsiders who observe my sabbaths and choose what pleases me and hold fast to my covenant: I will give, in my house and within my walls, a monument and a name Better than sons and daughters; an eternal, imperishable name I shall give them. For my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.

But he who takes refuge in me shall inherit the land, and possess my holy mountain.

You do realize that it had been tradition for many years before that to use the term Israel as a poetic term for the tribes of Israel??

The writer of Deutro Isaiah was using poetry in the forth servant song, which you are quoting from.

[Peg]

Are the Jews Israel?

Simple question,any answers?

Romans 9:6 However, it is not as though the word of God had failed. For not all who [spring] from Israel are really Israel.
7 Neither because they are Abrahams seed are they all children, but: What will be called your seed will be through Isaac. 8 That is, the children in the flesh are not really the children of God, but the children by the promise are counted as the seed


Galatians 3:29 Moreover, if YOU belong to Christ, YOU are really Abrahams seed, heirs with reference to a promise

[Goat]

Are the Jews Israel?

Simple question,any answers?

Romans 9:6 However, it is not as though the word of God had failed. For not all who [spring] from Israel are really Israel.
7 Neither because they are Abrahams seed are they all children, but: What will be called your seed will be through Isaac. 8 That is, the children in the flesh are not really the children of God, but the children by the promise are counted as the seed


Galatians 3:29 Moreover, if YOU belong to Christ, YOU are really Abrahams seed, heirs with reference to a promise

Well, that tells Paul's opinion.. who apparently is a self confessed liar, and had a lot of problems with , for example, women.

But, that doesn't answer the question.

[Peg]

Are the Jews Israel?

Simple question,any answers?

Romans 9:6 However, it is not as though the word of God had failed. For not all who [spring] from Israel are really Israel.
7 Neither because they are Abrahams seed are they all children, but: What will be called your seed will be through Isaac. 8 That is, the children in the flesh are not really the children of God, but the children by the promise are counted as the seed


Galatians 3:29 Moreover, if YOU belong to Christ, YOU are really Abrahams seed, heirs with reference to a promise

Well, that tells Paul's opinion.. who apparently is a self confessed liar, and had a lot of problems with , for example, women.

But, that doesn't answer the question.

Pauls words are in harmony with Jesus words found at John 8:39 In answer they said to him: Our father is Abraham. Jesus said to them: If YOU are Abrahams children, do the works of Abraham. 40 But now YOU are seeking to kill me, a man that has told YOU the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 YOU do the works of YOUR father. They said to him: We were not born from fornication; we have one Father, God.
42 Jesus said to them: If God were YOUR Father, YOU would love me, for from God I came forth and am here. Neither have I come of my own initiative at all, but that One sent me forth. 43 Why is it YOU do not know what I am speaking?


It seems that Paul got his understanding from Jesus...that if a Jew did not have the faith that Abraham had, that jew was not really a child of Abraham.
According to Jesus, being a child of Abraham meant acting in accord with Abrahams conduct and faith toward God...Paul is highlighting the same message.

Romans 4:11 And he received a sign, namely, circumcision, as a seal of the righteousness by the faith he had... that he might be the father of all those having faith... 12 and a father of circumcised offspring (the jews), not only to those who adhere to circumcision, but also to those who walk orderly in the footsteps of that faith while in the uncircumcised state which our father Abraham had.



So it certainly does answer the question. The Jews must have the faith of Abraham in order to be approved by God. Faith in the promises is the prerequisite for all mankind. Jesus is the promise.

[Soulspeaker]

Israel are those who are living in spirit and worshiping God in spirit and in truth. Christ gave Jacob a new name for many reasons. One, the meanings of their names. It's so hard to know or find the meaning unless you are fluent in Hebrew. Jacob means heal catcher. It was given to him when he was flesh. I really don't remember what Israel means. My bible says it means solder of God, but not sure if that is right. Israelites means the descendents of Israel or Jacob. God looks at things in a way we could never imagine but names has a great deal to Him. So when Jacob wanted a blessing Christ gave Him his new name to look or point to Christ. The whole bible is the History of Christ. It is not in the bible but to glorify God. I would like to think after Jacob wrestled with Christ that Jacob stopped trusting in himself and started to trust in only God. Jacob always did things without God and it always got him in trouble. Like deceiving his father to get what God had promised him. Anyways There is so much in that name that right now I don't have full understanding of it. I do know that it represents a new life or being reborn again not walking after self but after God. It says later in the bible that God will give us all knew names that only we know of and no one else but God will know it.

[Shermana]

Isaac's (and subsequently Jacob who is dubbed himself) lineage is what is Biblically referred to as Israel. The term "Israel" has been historically used. Jesus (allegedly) said "I have not come for anyone except the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel", he was likely intending to imply that he did not come for "gentiles" or at the very least, non-converts to the Torah. He compared the Canaanite woman to a "dog" (though that may be more about Canaan being considered a cursed race than gentiles in general). There is no way to argue that historically or post-modernly, the term "Israel" should apply to anyone except ethnic Jews and perhaps converts to a Torah based set of Judaism. If one wants to ask if the Jews did in fact come from this alleged Jacob/Israel figure, that's another story, but that would be irrelevant since the Jews themelves are the ones who have carried the term "Israel" to begin with, and without them, there'd be no one to even know about or highjack the name from.

Why wouldn't the Jews be Israel? Are we Khazars? Extensive Genetic tests will shoot down any attempt to say we Ashkenazis aren't directly related to Mizrahaim rather quickly.

Without the Jews, there'd be no state of Israel or term Israel. Regardless of any "replacement Theology", few Jews would probably accept the argument that Israel applies to anyone who claims to worship G-d in "Spirit and in truth", and what exactly does it mean to "Worship G-d in Spirit and in Truth"? Does that mean that Atheist Jews are not part of Israel? Or Reform Jews?

The State of Israel would not be called Israel, or exist, without people who call themselves "Jews". Why are Jews "Jews"? How do we know we come from Yahuda/Judah? Personally, I think we should be called Israelites instead of Jews, since many of us are/descend from Levites and Benjaminites and Danites and Gadites and Ephraimtes/Mannasites, and we don't know if we came from the Kingdom of Judah (the surviving melting pot of the old days), or the Northern Kingdom of Israel, or from the Diaspora before or after. The term "Jew" in my opinion should be phased out altogether unless we know we come from Judah, and replaced with Israelite, to befit our multi-millenial Cultural heritage.

Where does it say that we will all get new names? I don't recall that part.

[showme]

Are the Jews Israel?

Simple question,any answers?

When the bible refers to Israel, most of the time it is referring to the 10 northern tribes, which included everyone except the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi . The 3 tribes left to David were later referred to as jews, as in relating to Judah. In general, Israel refers to the lost 10 tribes, which were taken into bondage and dispersed throughout the world. These are the tribes that Yeshua sent out fishers of men to hunt. (Jer 16:16)