Religion is Placebo

[Mr.Badham]

Placebo administered through injection is more effective than placebo administered through pill form.

Placebo administered by someone dressed as a doctor is more effective than placebo administered by someone dressed as a nurse.

By that rationale, placebo administered by what you believe to be the creator of the universe could explain any personal experience you have ever had with said creator.

It doesn't matter that an actor dressed like a doctor injected you with a saline solution, you'll feel better. With that said, tell me something that has happened to you personally, that I cannot explain away as placebo.

And here's some homework for you. If you haven't had any experiences with the creator, ask yourself why you believe in him. It might be someone else's experience with placebo.

[EduChris]

Placebo...is...effective...

Scenario 1: given the truth of the "God hypothesis," it follows that objective truth has intrinsic value and can logically be pursued for its own sake. In this scenario, theism is preferred because it is (per hypothesis) objectively true.

Scenario 2: given the non-truth of the "God hypothesis," it follows that truth is relevant only to the extent that it confers pragmatic advantage. In this case, since you have admitted that the "placebo effect" is real, it follows that theism (as a placebo offering pragmatic advantage) is again preferred over non-theism.

Thus, theism is the logically preferred option regardless of whether or not it is objectively, ontologically true. Therefore, rational people will be theists.

[Mr.Badham]

Placebo...is...effective...

Scenario 1: given the truth of the "God hypothesis," it follows that objective truth has intrinsic value and can logically be pursued for its own sake. In this scenario, theism is preferred because it is (per hypothesis) objectively true.

Scenario 2: given the non-truth of the "God hypothesis," it follows that truth is relevant only to the extent that it confers pragmatic advantage. In this case, since you have admitted that the "placebo effect" is real, it follows that theism (as a placebo offering pragmatic advantage) is again preferred over non-theism.

Thus, theism is the logically preferred option regardless of whether or not it is objectively, ontologically true. Therefore, rational people will be theists.

You didn't answer the question. Have you had an experience that can't be explained away by placebo? If you haven't, it was placebo.

Many Native American cultures used magic mushrooms to have spiritual experiences. That's because they had to use magic mushrooms. It wasn't actually spiritual, it was hallucinogenic. There are no spiritual experiences.

By your "Scenario 2" (I didn't understand scenario 1)it sounds to me like you're saying any substance that you can cram down your yap to make yourself feel good/closer to god, is preferred, and that a rational person will take it. I disagree.

I say this short life on this tiny planet is good enough. If you can wrap your head around that, you won't need sugar pills and cocaine.

[EduChris]

...Native American cultures used magic mushrooms to have spiritual experiences. That's because they had to use magic mushrooms. It wasn't actually spiritual, it was hallucinogenic. There are no spiritual experiences...

Genetic fallacy.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 3:

I say this short life on this tiny planet is good enough. If you can wrap your head around that, you won't need sugar pills and cocaine.

Let's not forget cocaine's use as catnip!

[JoeyKnothead]

...Native American cultures used magic mushrooms to have spiritual experiences. That's because they had to use magic mushrooms. It wasn't actually spiritual, it was hallucinogenic. There are no spiritual experiences...

Genetic fallacy.

Misses / ignores other great comments within the referenced post.

[dianaiad]

Placebo administered through injection is more effective than placebo administered through pill form.

Placebo administered by someone dressed as a doctor is more effective than placebo administered by someone dressed as a nurse.

By that rationale, placebo administered by what you believe to be the creator of the universe could explain any personal experience you have ever had with said creator.

It doesn't matter that an actor dressed like a doctor injected you with a saline solution, you'll feel better. With that said, tell me something that has happened to you personally, that I cannot explain away as placebo.

And here's some homework for you. If you haven't had any experiences with the creator, ask yourself why you believe in him. It might be someone else's experience with placebo.

Ok, first...

Would you care to explain what the problem IS with a placebo? After all, feeling better is feeling better.

Mind over matter.
Biofeedback.
Neurological influence.
Faith.

You feel better because your mind tells you that you do...and what's wrong with that, anyway? Consider what pain is, for instance; it is the neurological reaction...a communication of nerve cells to the brain. If they are telling your brain that you hurt somewhere, and a placebo helps your brain calm that down so that those impulses aren't causing quite as much havoc,,,,what is it about morphine, do you suppose, that makes it so much more 'acceotable to you than a placebo that does EXACTLY THE SAME THING?

When placebos work, the relief is real. It doesn't matter whether the improvement is 'all in the patient's head...' because that's where PAIN is in the first place--and placebos work, when they do, because the patient does all the work; faith.

The placebo effect is proof that faith DOES work.

It goes the other way, too; for instance, opiates don't work on me. At all. I could swallow morphine tablets all day long and not get so much as relief from a stubbed toe. You could spike my drink with a fatal dose--and I wouldn't know you'd done anything.

Part of that is a lack of the receptor cells that handle opiates. Part of that is my utter lack of faith that opiates work on me. If you get something strong enough...slightly different enough...it works a bit, but frankly, I'm better off taking ibuprofin.

It happens sometimes. Several doctors have told me that this isn't possible; opiates as strong as the ones they gave me in the hospital work on EVERYBODY.

But they don't work on me. They don't affect me. They don't kill the pain--and believe me, I'm in no danger of getting addicted. They are a total waste of my swallowing time.

However, if you sneak up on me and INJECT something, that works, somewhat.

Is that the 'placebo effect' in reverse? If so, it's still proof that faith works, isn't it?

[EduChris]

...Have you had an experience that can't be explained away by placebo? If you haven't, it was placebo...

Have you had an experience that can't be explained away as a delusion/illusion? If you haven't, it was a delusion/illusion. [this is a fallacy, by the way]

...I disagree...

Assertion of disagreement does not constitute an argument.

...I say this short life on this tiny planet is good enough. If you can wrap your head around that, you won't need sugar pills and cocaine.

Mere opinion does not constitute an argument.

[TheBlackPhilosophy]

A man loses a limb..."Oh God help me! Someone! Please!".

Another man walks up..."Here, take this pill." Gives him a placebo.

"ITS NOT HELPING!!!"

Man goes into shock and bleeds out...

[End of "Placebos in place of medicine"]

[Mr.Badham]

No one has answered the question. Have you had an experience with the creator that can't be explained away as placebo?

I know that both placebos and faith work. They make people feel better and that's good.

But there is something more going on in the head of someone who relies on faith. What is it that faith makes you feel better about? Why don't you already feel good? Where does the pain come from? Is it the religion itself?

As Christian people we're raised to believe in original sin, then we're told we must ask forgiveness from that original sin and to have faith God will forgive us. Then we're told this horrible story of how Jesus died for us, as though it's our fault.

It's religions fault you don't feel better about yourself.
Give up religion and take back your life. It's yours, and you don't owe anybody anything.