Is Hell and Those Who Will Go There Eternal?

[barney]

Shalom,

In Mark 9:43-44, et al, we find Scriptures spoken by Jesus Himself, of an ETERNAL HELL, and the LOST who will enter it, in direct reference to a condition where THEIR (personal pronoun) WORM dieth not. While, the thoughts of an Eternal Hell to many of today's Biblical Scholars and Theologians is rapidly becoming 'politically incorrect', the Word of God begs to differ with them nonetheless.

Mark 9:43 (KJV)
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mark 9:44 (KJV)
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

To this end, the premise of this article is NOT to prove an Eternal HELL, which is self evident from simple Scriptural understanding, but rather to shed light on the Eternal WORN that will exist in this unimaginable place of Eternal Punishment.

It takes a greater work of Scriptural gymnastics hammered on the anvil of disbelief to DISPROVE an Eternal Hell, then the Child like FAITH to accept God's sovereign omnipotent WISDOM and authority.

Many have speculated that these aforementioned WORMS are nothing more than some sort of demonic creatures that will devour the flesh of the damned and doomed mankind during their temporal destruction in the eternal and infernal place of Torment. Meanwhile, it is equally presumed that the Lake of Fire is only designed for Satan, his 1/3 Fallen Cohorts, the man AC, and the False Prophet.

However, this is not at all what Scripture reveals, the Bible states that the Righteous will view the 'carcasses' of those who have transgressed against God in a place where the fire is unquenched and THEIR (personal pronoun) WORN shall NEVER die.

Isaiah 66:24 (KJV)
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

To this end then, WHO are these WORMS that shall NEVER DIE which Jesus reveals in Mk. 9:44, et al?

The following Scriptures makes it perfectly clear by direct language SYMBOLIZING who these ETERNAL WORMS are most likely to be, even Jacob himself was addressed by the Lord as a WORM.

Job 25:6 (KJV)
6 How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?

Psalms 22:6 (KJV)
6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

Isaiah 41:14 (KJV)
14 Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.

What then can easily be deduced from the above supposition, is that MAN is symbolized by a WORM and respecting Mk. 9:43-44 spoken directly by Jesus Himself, cited above, is referring to the LOST without HOPE in CHRIST.

Therefore, with direct respect to the ETERNAL FLAME, Matt. 25:41 does NOT imply exclusivity with relationship to those who will be deposited into 'Everlasting' Fire.

Matthew 25:41 (KJV)
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Nowhere in the above Passage is the word ONLY implied with respect to Satan and his Angels... simply PREPARED (made ready). Moreover, this Passage declares that those who have been judged unworthy from among the nations (those on the left hand) will ALSO be cast into the Everlasting Fire.

Meanwhile, Rev.19:20 reveals that the Beast and the False Prophet will be deposited there as well. The Beast and the False Prophet are NOT once mentioned in Matt. 25:41, in exception to exclusivity...for ONLY Satan and his Angels.

Also, Rev. 20:14-15 reveals that subsequent to the Great White Throne Judgment of the DEAD (Second Death) will be deposited in the Everlasting Lake of Fire as well.

To reiterate, in Mk. 9:43-48 Jesus is indeed referring back to the Isaiah prophecy of 66:23-24.

Meanwhile, with respect to the WORM that DIETH NOT. Therefore, if it can shown where something that will NEVER DIE (even Christians are addressed in Scripture relevant to this SAME language - Jn. 11:26, et al.) is indeed NOT INFINITE or Eternal, then you have my undivided attention as well as a realistic defense for your concern, otherwise...

To this end, the KEY to understanding this prophecy is quite simple...those DEAD BODIES who will be in the (their) FIRE that is NOT QUENCED (Eternal Hell) are all those who have transgressed against the LORD:

Isaiah 66:23-24 (KJV)
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Therefore, Jesus WARNS the grammatical antecedents ETERNAL WORM(s) - those transgressing against the LORD - of Mk. 43, 45 and 47, NOT to go to the place of ETERNAL HELL where THEIR Worm Dies NOT.

As such, the antecedent possessive personal pronoun THEIR with respect to the LXX (greek Septuagint), referring to the CARCASES/DEAD BODIES, is in EXACT agreement with Isaiah 66:24 (the Worm that shall NOT DIE - CARCASE) and the ETERNAL WORM that Jesus revealed in Mk. 44, 47, and 48.

"...In this sentence, the greek (in the septuagint, it is presumably the personal pronoun) their refers back to what? The answer is "carcasses" ("dead bodies")."

Moreover, the POSSESSOR of the ETERNAL WORM (Dead Body) is what is 'Spiritually' INSIDE of the Dead Body/Eternal Worm. To this end, when in Job 25:6, Psalms 22:6, and Isaiah 41:14 when God calls man a WORM He was referring to the 'physical body'. However, with respect to natural man there is ALSO a Soul/Spirit that dwells within the 'temporal' WORM.

Meanwhile, it is duely noted that WORMS eat decaying matter, i.e. dead bodies. However, the ETERNAL WORMS that BELONG (Ownership) to those who have transgressed against the LORD, per Scripture, are NOT 'external' consuming worms separate of the carcase, but rather the DEAD BODIES/CARCASES themselves, that will NEVER Die.

Therefore, if the WORM/DEAD BODY is ETERNAL, then so must its HOST OWNER (THEIR) that 'dwells within' be as well. If the OWNER (Spirit/Soul inside of the ETERNAL WORM) was to vanish away, then Eternal Hell would have Eternal Worms/DEAD BODIES with NO OWNERS. Nonetheless, below is what/where these ETERNAL WORMS will originate from - the DEAD BODIES that will NEVER DIE.

Dan. 12:2, Jn. 5:28-29 and Rev. 20:5 makes if perfectly clear that there will be a Resurrection of the DEAD in Sin (the Resurrection of the Damned).

John 5:28 (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Seeing therefore, that the former Carcases of these Damned and Dead resurrected individuals have long since been consumed by other parasites that are/were NOT ETERNAL (natural), then God has/will prepared (created) a NEW BODY for these doomed TRANSGRESSORS as well. Rev. 20:11-15, reveals that the DEAD will come out of their graves (see Jn. 5:28-29 above) and their resurrected DEAD BODIES (newly created - ETERNAL WORMS) will STAND before God to be Judged for THEIR transgressing against the LORD.

Revelation 20:11-15 (KJV)
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

barney

[barney]

Shalom JW,

Thank you for responding.

You state the following:

A GOOD translator will seek to accurately reflect the meaning of the original word in context and aion is a "multi-layered" word; thus the New World Translation (of Jehovah's Witnesses) does NOT use the English word "eternal" for aion in Math 25: 41 but EVERLASTING since, as you pointed out the context clearly indicates Jesus is refering to something with a defintate beginning; thus the English word eternal would here be unsuitable.

Please review the correctness of using the English Word ETERNAL for "aion' in Matt. 25:41.

In 1 Pet. 5:10, 1 Tim 1:17 and Heb. 9:14 we see the words aionion/aionious/aioniou used respectively to mean the ETERNAL Glory of God, the ETERNAL King God, and the ETERNAL Spirit of God. In each of these cited Passages we see time that has NO BEGINNING and NO DETERMINATE ENDING.

Would you stand the argument, that you are suggesting that the Glory of God, the King God, and the Spirit of God - each have specified time limits on them.

Likewise, as some examples of ETERNAL (aionious) defined as having a specified BEGINNING of time but NO ENDING, we see that in Heb. 5:9, Heb. 9:12, and 2 Pet. 1:11, that ETERNAL Salvation, ETERNAL Redemption, and the ETERNAL Kingdom of Jesus Christ each have a BEGINNING but NO ENDING.

Therefore, your insisted notion that Aion is NOT applicable to Matt. 25:41 is completely unsupportable and of your own personal opinion - NOT FACTUAL.

Aion and its derivatives are just as I have previously stated, they are LIQUID and definable in direct correlation to the OBJECT and CONTEXT to which they are attached.

barney

[pneuma]

Thank you for your kind response.

You asked me to prove to you something ETERNAL that God has prepared.

To this end, before I show you what you have requested...allow me to first define how I am using the word 'aion/aionios' and its derivatives.

I am defining 'aionios' respective to "WHERE the WORM DIETH NOT", as something created by God that has a clearly defined BEGINNING but has NO DETERMINATE ENDING.

So are we now allowed to make up our own definitions of words? You are doing that with the word eternal. That is playing with words and should show you the error you have fallen into.

Seeing that you also make the declaration that, "... Yes [Aion] it can be FIXED with consistency in every case. Aion-age and aionious/aionion is that which pertains to that age...", this will address this specific concern as well.

In 1 Pet. 5:10, 1 Tim 1:17 and Heb. 9:14 we see the words aionion/aionious/aioniou used respectively to mean the ETERNAL Glory of God, the ETERNAL King God, and the ETERNAL Spirit of God. In each of these cited Passages we see time that has NO BEGINNING and NO DETERMINATE ENDING. Unless, you are suggesting that the Glory of God, the King God, and the Spirit of God each have time limits on them.

God Glory is not tied to aion, it is tied to aion- age and Aphthartos- uncorrupted, not liable to corruption or decay, imperishable and Amarantos- not fading away, unfading, perennial. It is in Amarantos were we see the perennial glory of God, not in the aion-age.

Here is the literal reading of those scriptures.

1 Pet. 5:10
10 And the God of all grace, who did call you to His age-during glory in Christ Jesus, having suffered a little, Himself make you perfect, establish, strengthen, settle [you]; 11 to Him [is] the glory, and the power -- to the ages and the ages! Amen.

1 Tim 1:17
17 and to the King of the ages, the incorruptible, invisible, only wise God, [is] honour and glory -- to the ages of the ages! Amen.

Heb.9:14
14 how much more shall the blood of the Christ (who through the age-during Spirit did offer himself unblemished to God) purify your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Likewise, as some examples of ETERNAL (aionious) defined as having a specified BEGINNING of time but NO ENDING, we see that in Heb. 5:9, Heb. 9:12, and 2 Pet. 1:11, that ETERNAL Salvation, ETERNAL Redemption, and the ETERNAL Kingdom of Jesus Christ each have a BEGINNING but NO ENDING.

That because the beginning is in the aion-age but the no ending is in the Amarantos- perennial

Therefore, your insisted notion of Aion as being FIXED with consistency in every case - FAILS. Aion and its derivatives are just as I previously stated, they are LIQUID and definable in direct correlation to the OBJECT and CONTEXT to which they are attached.

Yet I just showed you that they are not liquid but fixed.

Therefore, returning to your original concern of showing proof of something that God creates that is ETERNAL, as per the above described definition of ETERNAL - time with a specified BEGINNING but NO ENDING...What is an ANGEL, what is a GLORIFIED BODY at the Resurrection, what is the KINGDOM of Jesus, what is the WORM THAT DIETH NOT, etc..., each have a clearly definable BEGINNING but NO ENDING.

Already explained that without having to make up my own definition of words.

Eternal means without beginning and without end; and you change that meaning to with a beginning but without end.

When one has to play with the meaning of words in order to suite their doctrine one should be able to realise that their doctrine is not sound.

Moreover, you declare that the, "Lake of Fire is DEATH", this is a misquote of Scripture.

The Lake of Fire is the PLACE of ETERNAL Punishment/Torment for those who are NOT part of the First Resurrection and do NOT have their names in the Lamb's BOOK of Life. (Rev. 20:6, 14-15).

Being cast into the Lake of Fire is a consequence of NOT being in the First Resurrection or having their names in the Lamb's Book of Life, this is the Second Death.

Revelation 20:14
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
What is the second death? The lake of fire.

Once again, your preponderance FAILS.

Back at ya

Hope this helps.

Yes it did it showed me where you have gone into error.

[barney]

Shalom pneuma,

Thank you for your kind response.

You incorrectly accuse me of making up my own word definitions for the greek 'aionios', by suggesting that when I declared I was going to define 'ainonios' RESPECTIVE TO 'Where the Worm Dieth Not' as something created by God that has a BEGINNING but has NO DETERMINATE ENDING...and subsequently and clearly defined with cited Scriptures this implied 'aionios' definition, you completely IGNORED them.

Here immediately below is my EXACT quote:

Likewise, as some examples of ETERNAL (aionious) defined as having a specified BEGINNING of time but NO ENDING, we see that in Heb. 5:9, Heb. 9:12, and 2 Pet. 1:11, that ETERNAL Salvation, ETERNAL Redemption, and the ETERNAL Kingdom of Jesus Christ each have a BEGINNING but NO ENDING.

I was implying that WHERE the WORM DIETH NOT, is the ETERNAL 'aionios' God Created 'thing' that you had previously asked me to prove - and was defining this created thing RESPECTIVE TO time that has a BEGINNING but has NO ENDING - 'ainonios' - ETERNAL.

However, in your rush to defend your personal opinion regarding the appropriate definition of 'aion', you are willing to grasp at any little insignificant debatable straw and falsely accuse those who are attempting to answer your very own requested question.

Meanwhile, with respect to the Scriptures I cited below you have completely REDEFINED each and every Scriptural reference of an ETERNAL 'aion' with regars to the ETERNAL GLORY of GOD, ETERNAL GOD KING, and GOD's ETERNAL SPIRIT to your own personally held opinion... in an effort to bolster your claim that could prove the word 'ainon' is FIXED and cannot be FLUID.

In 1 Pet. 5:10, 1 Tim 1:17 and Heb. 9:14 we see the words aionion/aionious/aioniou used respectively to mean the ETERNAL Glory of God, the ETERNAL King God, and the ETERNAL Spirit of God. In each of these cited Passages we see time that has NO BEGINNING and NO DETERMINATE ENDING, hence ETERNAL.

To this end, if you insist from these clearly stated Passages, that the Glory of God, the King God, and the Spirit of God each have DETERMINITE time limits on them, and each can EXPIRE, that is your FREE CHOICE.

However, do not expect the rest of we Theological BIBLE students to happly support you. When you can post positive PROOF of what you suggest that there are indeed Time LIMITS and EXPIRATION DATES, on the GLORY of God, God as KING, and the SPIRIT of God - then you truely have a defendable argument...but until then it is just your suggested opinion - and no more.

I hope this helps.

barney

[barney]

Shalom pneuma,

With respect to your claim that the greek 'Aion', "... can be FIXED with consistency in every case. Aion-age and aionious/aionion is that which pertains to that age...", I advance the following argument negative to this preponderance.

Here below are two glaring Scriptural examples that validate that the greek 'Aion' and its derivatives are actually FLUID and are defined by the OBJECT and the CONTEXT to which they are grammatically ATTACHED.

Meanwhile, the greek 'Aion/aionios' is defined by Strong's as #G166:

Greek Word:
Transliteration: ainios

from <G165> (aion); perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well) :- eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).

Therefore, in Heb. 9:14 we see the following Passage with the use of the greek 'aioniou' translated as ETERNAL respective of the ETERNAL SPIRIT of God.

Hebrews 9:14 (KJV)
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

To this end, we cannot deny nor refute that the Spirit of God is indeed ETERNAL - having NO BEGINNING and NO DETERMINATE ENDING. The ETERNAL Spirit of God has NO BEGINNING and will NEVER EXPIRE.

Meanwhile, in Heb. 5:9 we see the use of this very SAME 'aioniou' translated as ETERNAL with respect to Jesus as the author of ETERNAL SALVATION. Hence, the same identical word meaning of Strong's #G166 (see above) - the very same greek 'aioniou' as Heb. 9:14.

However, in this particular Passage the ETERNAL 'aioniou' is defined as - having a specified BEGINNING but has NO DETERMINATE ENDING.

Therefore, as can clearly be seen from these two simple Passages (as well as the others I previously cited for you) - the greek "Aion/aioniou" and its derivatives are indeed FLUID, just as I previously stated as well, and NOT as you claim - FIXED in each and every use.

Hope this helps.

barney

[pneuma]

Greek word ai-on (plural, ai-ones) [...] [a]space of time clearly defined and marked out, epoch, age, and also lifetime, life, or age, generation. Since an epoch, or age, can begin and end or it can go on forever, it follows that ai-on could refer to a period of time that is endless, though having a beginning" Insight on the Scripture Vol I p. 57

Hi JW, the problem with that is one must change the meaning of the English word eteranl from without beginning and without end to just without end.

That one has to play with the meaning of the word Eternal after that fashion should show eternal is not a proper translation of the word aion or aionion.

Or...not use the word ETERNAL at all when speaking of things that had a beginning.

A GOOD translator will seek to accurately reflect the meaning of the original word in context and aion is a "multi-layered" word; thus the New World Translation (of Jehovah's Witnesses) does NOT use the English word "eternal" for aion in Math 25: 41 but EVERLASTING since, as you pointed out the context clearly indicates Jesus is refering to something with a defintate beginning; thus the English word eternal would here be unsuitable.

They weren't kidding when they said "the Greeks had a word for it" and aion suitably illustrates that we may need several different English words (according to context) to adequately cover the scope of one Greek word.

JW the problem I have with that is you are still using the word aion/olam to get the word everlasting and then using everlasting to mean something that is without end.

Yet scripture tells us God is FROM everlasting TO everlasting. Obviously if one is FROM one thing TO another it shows everlasting does not mean without end.

[pneuma]

You incorrectly accuse me of making up my own word definitions for the greek 'aionios', by suggesting that when I declared I was going to define 'ainonios' RESPECTIVE TO 'Where the Worm Dieth Not' as something created by God that has a BEGINNING but has NO DETERMINATE ENDING...and subsequently and clearly defined with cited Scriptures this implied 'aionios' definition, you completely IGNORED them.

Sorry but you need to reread my post if you think I ignored you. Heck I even quoted each scripture you used.

Here immediately below is my EXACT quote:

Likewise, as some examples of ETERNAL (aionious) defined as having a specified BEGINNING of time but NO ENDING, we see that in Heb. 5:9, Heb. 9:12, and 2 Pet. 1:11, that ETERNAL Salvation, ETERNAL Redemption, and the ETERNAL Kingdom of Jesus Christ each have a BEGINNING but NO ENDING.

I was implying that WHERE the WORM DIETH NOT, is the ETERNAL 'aionios' God Created 'thing' that you had previously asked me to prove - and was defining this created thing RESPECTIVE TO time that has a BEGINNING but has NO ENDING - 'ainonios' - ETERNAL.

However, in your rush to defend your personal opinion regarding the appropriate definition of 'aion', you are willing to grasp at any little insignificant debatable straw and falsely accuse those who are attempting to answer your very own requested question.

No matter how you try to defend your stance Barney your still saying the English word eternal means something that has a beginning but is without end. You have had to completely change the meaning of the word eternal to suite your doctrine. That should tell you how much in error your understanding is in this regards.

Meanwhile, with respect to the Scriptures I cited below you have completely REDEFINED each and every Scriptural reference of an ETERNAL 'aion' with regars to the ETERNAL GLORY of GOD, ETERNAL GOD KING, and GOD's ETERNAL SPIRIT to your own personally held opinion... in an effort to bolster your claim that could prove the word 'ainon' is FIXED and cannot be FLUID.

In 1 Pet. 5:10, 1 Tim 1:17 and Heb. 9:14 we see the words aionion/aionious/aioniou used respectively to mean the ETERNAL Glory of God, the ETERNAL King God, and the ETERNAL Spirit of God. In each of these cited Passages we see time that has NO BEGINNING and NO DETERMINATE ENDING, hence ETERNAL.

Sorry Barney but I did not change anything, I quoted those same scriptures from Young's literal translation which shows that my understanding is correct and yours is in error.

You said yourself that the closer we are to the original language the better we can understand what is written. Now you want to reject a literal translation, which is closer to the original language, in favour of a translation that is not literal

To this end, if you insist from these clearly stated Passages, that the Glory of God, the King God, and the Spirit of God each have DETERMINITE time limits on them, and each can EXPIRE, that is your FREE CHOICE.

However, do not expect the rest of we Theological BIBLE students to happly support you. When you can post positive PROOF of what you suggest that there are indeed Time LIMITS and EXPIRATION DATES, on the GLORY of God, God as KING, and the SPIRIT of God - then you truely have a defendable argument...but until then it is just your suggested opinion - and no more.

However that is NOT what I said, did you even read my post? I said

God Glory is not tied to aion, it is tied to aion- age and Aphthartos- uncorrupted, not liable to corruption or decay, imperishable and Amarantos- not fading away, unfading, perennial. It is in Amarantos were we see the perennial glory of God, not in the aion-age.

Also in the little article I wrote I showed how the aion/olam means a limited time, gave many scripture references for you to look at and you never even bothered to address them.

[pneuma]

Shalom pneuma,

With respect to your claim that the greek 'Aion', "... can be FIXED with consistency in every case. Aion-age and aionious/aionion is that which pertains to that age...", I advance the following argument negative to this preponderance.

Here below are two glaring Scriptural examples that validate that the greek 'Aion' and its derivatives are actually FLUID and are defined by the OBJECT and the CONTEXT to which they are grammatically ATTACHED.

Meanwhile, the greek 'Aion/aionios' is defined by Strong's as #G166:

Greek Word:
Transliteration: ainios

from <G165> (aion); perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well) :- eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).

Therefore, in Heb. 9:14 we see the following Passage with the use of the greek 'aioniou' translated as ETERNAL respective of the ETERNAL SPIRIT of God.

Hebrews 9:14 (KJV)
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

To this end, we cannot deny nor refute that the Spirit of God is indeed ETERNAL - having NO BEGINNING and NO DETERMINATE ENDING. The ETERNAL Spirit of God has NO BEGINNING and will NEVER EXPIRE.

Meanwhile, in Heb. 5:9 we see the use of this very SAME 'aioniou' translated as ETERNAL with respect to Jesus as the author of ETERNAL SALVATION. Hence, the same identical word meaning of Strong's #G166 (see above) - the very same greek 'aioniou' as Heb. 9:14.

However, in this particular Passage the ETERNAL 'aioniou' is defined as - having a specified BEGINNING but has NO DETERMINATE ENDING.

Therefore, as can clearly be seen from these two simple Passages (as well as the others I previously cited for you) - the greek "Aion/aioniou" and its derivatives are indeed FLUID, just as I previously stated as well, and NOT as you claim - FIXED in each and every use.

Hope this helps.

barney

Yet I can quote those same scriptures out of a literal translation that shows your understanding is in error and that aion is FIXED, as I have already done.

FROM aion/olam TO aion/olam thou art God, pretty much tells us aion/olam come to an end.

I also showed in my little article Greek words that speak of something that never ends, so if God wanted us to understand that hell was never ending surely He would have used one of those words I gave, yet NEVER is any of those words used in reference to God judgments. Again that should tell you something, the only question is will you let it.

[barney]

Shalom pneuma,

Here is a direct quote from you cited below as to how you define 'Aion' with your FIXED meaning.

"...Also in the little article I wrote I showed how the aion/olam means a limited time, gave many scripture references for you to look at and you never even bothered to address them..."

Thus, you make it perfectily clear from the above, that it is your personal opinion that 'AION' means "A LIMITED TIME..."

This is so very sad to hear - the ETERNAL GLORY of GOD, the ETERNAL SPIRIT of GOD , the ETERNAL KING GOD, ETERANL SALVATION, ETERNAL REDEMPTION, etc., according to penuma and her Literal Translation - not the greek Textus Recptus Scriptures, will ALL one day EXPIRE.

So PLEASE sound the alarm throughout the universe - God, Jesus and our Salvation is running out of time.

Maybe God forgot to pay the rent and the ETERNAL Satan is going to kick us ALL out...

Hope this helps.

barney

[pneuma]

Shalom pneuma,

Here is a direct quote from you cited below as to how you define 'Aion' with your FIXED meaning.

"...Also in the little article I wrote I showed how the aion/olam means a limited time, gave many scripture references for you to look at and you never even bothered to address them..."

Thus, you make it perfectily clear from the above, that it is your personal opinion that 'AION' means "A LIMITED TIME..."

This is so very sad to hear - the ETERNAL GLORY of GOD, the ETERNAL SPIRIT of GOD , the ETERNAL KING GOD, ETERANL SALVATION, ETERNAL REDEMPTION, etc., according to penuma and her Literal Translation - not the greek Textus Recptus Scriptures, will ALL one day EXPIRE.

So PLEASE sound the alarm throughout the universe - God, Jesus and our Salvation is running out of time.

Maybe God forgot to pay the rent and the ETERNAL Satan is going to kick us ALL out...

Hope this helps.

barney

You either practice at misinformation or you do not read what I have said.

Concerning God and all that He is, is MUCH more then aion, He spans every aion

FROM aion/olam TO aion/olam

Does that sound to you like God ends?

God Glory is not tied to aion, it is tied to aion- age and Aphthartos- uncorrupted, not liable to corruption or decay, imperishable and Amarantos- not fading away, unfading, perennial. It is in Amarantos were we see the perennial glory of God, not in the aion-age.


Your so stuck on what you want to believe you misrepresent everything I have said and are doing so seemingly on purpose. By doing this you hurt your own cause, for you come across as someone who lies about what another says in order to support your own doctrine.

Oh well Paul did say we would be falsely accused.

[barney]

Shalom pneuma,

You have now degenerated in your despotism of trying to prove that the greek 'aion' is always used as a FIXED meaning - to calling those who disagree with you a LIAR. Following is your direct quote:

"By doing this you hurt your own cause, for you come across as someone who lies about what another says in order to support your own doctrine.

I have NOT implied such a NONE PROFESSIONAL name calling mentality to you even though I disagreed with your unreasonable and theological unsupportable suppositions...

Therefore, let it be posted to ALL readers that any further correspondance that you may submit respective of my publications - I will NO LONGER kindly reciprocate by answering your request.

When you choose to behave BADLY and intentionally attack others by using personal derogatory slander to bolster your opinions, then productive theological reasoning has come to an end.

My correspondances to you were in GOOD FAITH - it is sad that you feel you must call others a LIAR in order to support your opinions.

I DO NOT appreciate nor tolerate being called a LIAR and likewise I do not think you would either.

You were neither invited nor encouraged to call me a LIAR...

barney