Is Hell and Those Who Will Go There Eternal?

[barney]

Shalom,

In Mark 9:43-44, et al, we find Scriptures spoken by Jesus Himself, of an ETERNAL HELL, and the LOST who will enter it, in direct reference to a condition where THEIR (personal pronoun) WORM dieth not. While, the thoughts of an Eternal Hell to many of today's Biblical Scholars and Theologians is rapidly becoming 'politically incorrect', the Word of God begs to differ with them nonetheless.

Mark 9:43 (KJV)
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mark 9:44 (KJV)
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

To this end, the premise of this article is NOT to prove an Eternal HELL, which is self evident from simple Scriptural understanding, but rather to shed light on the Eternal WORN that will exist in this unimaginable place of Eternal Punishment.

It takes a greater work of Scriptural gymnastics hammered on the anvil of disbelief to DISPROVE an Eternal Hell, then the Child like FAITH to accept God's sovereign omnipotent WISDOM and authority.

Many have speculated that these aforementioned WORMS are nothing more than some sort of demonic creatures that will devour the flesh of the damned and doomed mankind during their temporal destruction in the eternal and infernal place of Torment. Meanwhile, it is equally presumed that the Lake of Fire is only designed for Satan, his 1/3 Fallen Cohorts, the man AC, and the False Prophet.

However, this is not at all what Scripture reveals, the Bible states that the Righteous will view the 'carcasses' of those who have transgressed against God in a place where the fire is unquenched and THEIR (personal pronoun) WORN shall NEVER die.

Isaiah 66:24 (KJV)
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

To this end then, WHO are these WORMS that shall NEVER DIE which Jesus reveals in Mk. 9:44, et al?

The following Scriptures makes it perfectly clear by direct language SYMBOLIZING who these ETERNAL WORMS are most likely to be, even Jacob himself was addressed by the Lord as a WORM.

Job 25:6 (KJV)
6 How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?

Psalms 22:6 (KJV)
6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

Isaiah 41:14 (KJV)
14 Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.

What then can easily be deduced from the above supposition, is that MAN is symbolized by a WORM and respecting Mk. 9:43-44 spoken directly by Jesus Himself, cited above, is referring to the LOST without HOPE in CHRIST.

Therefore, with direct respect to the ETERNAL FLAME, Matt. 25:41 does NOT imply exclusivity with relationship to those who will be deposited into 'Everlasting' Fire.

Matthew 25:41 (KJV)
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Nowhere in the above Passage is the word ONLY implied with respect to Satan and his Angels... simply PREPARED (made ready). Moreover, this Passage declares that those who have been judged unworthy from among the nations (those on the left hand) will ALSO be cast into the Everlasting Fire.

Meanwhile, Rev.19:20 reveals that the Beast and the False Prophet will be deposited there as well. The Beast and the False Prophet are NOT once mentioned in Matt. 25:41, in exception to exclusivity...for ONLY Satan and his Angels.

Also, Rev. 20:14-15 reveals that subsequent to the Great White Throne Judgment of the DEAD (Second Death) will be deposited in the Everlasting Lake of Fire as well.

To reiterate, in Mk. 9:43-48 Jesus is indeed referring back to the Isaiah prophecy of 66:23-24.

Meanwhile, with respect to the WORM that DIETH NOT. Therefore, if it can shown where something that will NEVER DIE (even Christians are addressed in Scripture relevant to this SAME language - Jn. 11:26, et al.) is indeed NOT INFINITE or Eternal, then you have my undivided attention as well as a realistic defense for your concern, otherwise...

To this end, the KEY to understanding this prophecy is quite simple...those DEAD BODIES who will be in the (their) FIRE that is NOT QUENCED (Eternal Hell) are all those who have transgressed against the LORD:

Isaiah 66:23-24 (KJV)
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Therefore, Jesus WARNS the grammatical antecedents ETERNAL WORM(s) - those transgressing against the LORD - of Mk. 43, 45 and 47, NOT to go to the place of ETERNAL HELL where THEIR Worm Dies NOT.

As such, the antecedent possessive personal pronoun THEIR with respect to the LXX (greek Septuagint), referring to the CARCASES/DEAD BODIES, is in EXACT agreement with Isaiah 66:24 (the Worm that shall NOT DIE - CARCASE) and the ETERNAL WORM that Jesus revealed in Mk. 44, 47, and 48.

"...In this sentence, the greek (in the septuagint, it is presumably the personal pronoun) their refers back to what? The answer is "carcasses" ("dead bodies")."

Moreover, the POSSESSOR of the ETERNAL WORM (Dead Body) is what is 'Spiritually' INSIDE of the Dead Body/Eternal Worm. To this end, when in Job 25:6, Psalms 22:6, and Isaiah 41:14 when God calls man a WORM He was referring to the 'physical body'. However, with respect to natural man there is ALSO a Soul/Spirit that dwells within the 'temporal' WORM.

Meanwhile, it is duely noted that WORMS eat decaying matter, i.e. dead bodies. However, the ETERNAL WORMS that BELONG (Ownership) to those who have transgressed against the LORD, per Scripture, are NOT 'external' consuming worms separate of the carcase, but rather the DEAD BODIES/CARCASES themselves, that will NEVER Die.

Therefore, if the WORM/DEAD BODY is ETERNAL, then so must its HOST OWNER (THEIR) that 'dwells within' be as well. If the OWNER (Spirit/Soul inside of the ETERNAL WORM) was to vanish away, then Eternal Hell would have Eternal Worms/DEAD BODIES with NO OWNERS. Nonetheless, below is what/where these ETERNAL WORMS will originate from - the DEAD BODIES that will NEVER DIE.

Dan. 12:2, Jn. 5:28-29 and Rev. 20:5 makes if perfectly clear that there will be a Resurrection of the DEAD in Sin (the Resurrection of the Damned).

John 5:28 (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Seeing therefore, that the former Carcases of these Damned and Dead resurrected individuals have long since been consumed by other parasites that are/were NOT ETERNAL (natural), then God has/will prepared (created) a NEW BODY for these doomed TRANSGRESSORS as well. Rev. 20:11-15, reveals that the DEAD will come out of their graves (see Jn. 5:28-29 above) and their resurrected DEAD BODIES (newly created - ETERNAL WORMS) will STAND before God to be Judged for THEIR transgressing against the LORD.

Revelation 20:11-15 (KJV)
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

barney

[barney]

Shalom myth-one,

Thank you for responding.

If what you suggest that one can be SAVED AFTER DEATH is indeed true - then you would most likely have ample Scriptural support.

What about the billions of people who never even heard the name Jesus. What about everyone who lived before Jesus was even born? These could not be saved under the Old Testament, for all had sinned. What about those mentally incompetent? What about children who died before they understood about Jesus? What about abortions?

None of these ever denied Jesus. Likewise, they never believed in Jesus.

Therefore, PLEASE post for use your Scriptural EVIDENCE - NO IMO's PLEASE.

Show us your FACTS...

barney

[myth-one.com]

If what you suggest that one can be SAVED AFTER DEATH is indeed true - then you would most likely have ample Scriptural support.

There is.

What about the billions of people who never even heard the name Jesus. What about everyone who lived before Jesus was even born? These could not be saved under the Old Testament, for all had sinned. What about those mentally incompetent? What about children who died before they understood about Jesus? What about abortions?

None of these ever denied Jesus. Likewise, they never believed in Jesus.

That's correct. So what becomes of these billions of humans who have died never having believed in Jesus?

Therefore, PLEASE post for use your Scriptural EVIDENCE - NO IMO's PLEASE.

If you did not believe the scripture upon the first reading, why would you believe the scripture upon reading it a second time?

Has anything changed since then?

My guess is that you still hold on to your indoctrinations -- regardless of what the scriptures state.

[barney]

Shalom myth-one,

Thank you for responding.

It is not good enough to simply tell me that "BILLIONS of HUMANS have died without ever hearing about Jesus".

That's correct. So what becomes of these billions of humans who have died never having believed in Jesus?

PLEASE direct us once again to your supporting Scriputres that PROVE your claim of SALVATION AFTER DEATH.

If you did not believe the scripture upon the first reading, why would you believe the scripture upon reading it a second time?

barney

[myth-one.com]

PLEASE direct us once again to your supporting Scriputres that PROVE your claim of SALVATION AFTER DEATH.

Here it is again, and again, and again . . .

Here is another short proof that nonbelievers are raised with natural bodies:

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. (I Corinthians 15:22)

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life... (Daniel 12:2)

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (I Corinthians 15:44)

All (believers and nonbelievers) will be resurrected.

But only some of these all will be resurrected to everlasting life.

Those resurrected to everlasting life are identified as the believers:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

The remainder (nonbelievers) will be resurrected as natural bodied mortal humans -- as there are only two possibilities (natural and spiritual), and they are not raised with everlasting life spiritual bodies.

[barney]

Shalom myth-one,

Thank you for responding.

You state as proof for your claim that NONBELIEVES will be resurrected from the dead in the 2nd. Resurrection having NATURAL Human Bodies.

Quote:
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. (I Corinthians 15:22)

Quote:
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life... (Daniel 12:2)

Quote:
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (I Corinthians 15:44)

As I have stated before, in 1 Cor. 15:42-44, Apostle Paul has NOTHING whatsoever to reveal regarding the resurrected bodies of NONBELIEVERS - but rather those who are BELIEVERS.

1 Corinthians 15:42-44 (KJV)
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Apostle Paul declares in 1 Cor. 15:43-44, that a BELIEVER'S body is SOWN (not Resurrected) in dishonour and weakness and then RESURRECTED in power - as a SPIRITUAL Body.

Therefore, how can you conclude from the above Passages, which have nothing to do with the Resurrection of the Sinner, that the Resurrected Body of Sinners will be MORTAL Human Bodies?

Moreover, Apostle Paul makes it perfectly clear that the MORTAL NATURAL Body is SOWN, and not as you suggest, RESURRECTED.

To this end, if what you suggest is indeed true, that Resurrected Sinners will have a MORTAL Human Body - then once again, please explain how the FALSE PROPHET will have endured 1,000 years in the Lake of Fire, before Satan ever joins him? (Rev. 19:20, 20:2 and 20:10)

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cremation, the cremation of a HUMAN Body in a modern furnace can be as fast as ONE HOUR per 99 lbs. of body weight. I think we can safely assume then that the Lake of Fire would meet the standards of a 'modern' furnace...wouldn't you agree?

The time required for cremation varies from body to body, and, in modern furnaces, the process may be as fast as one hour per 45 kilograms (99 lb) of body weight.[/quote]

Therefore, how could your suggested NATURAL Body of the False Prophet endure 8,766,157 hours in the Lake of Fire?

One year is equal to 8766.1536 hours - thus, 1,000 years would be approximately equal to 8,766,156.6 hours.

Meanwhile, you repeatedly declare that there is SALVATION AFTER DEATH.

However, in Dan. 12:2 and Jn. 5:28-29, both the Angel of God, sent to speak with Daniel, and Jesus Himself, reveal that those SINNERS who are RESURRECTED will rise to EVERLASTING Shame, Contempt and Damnation. Moreover, in Dan. 12:2, the SAME identical Hebrew word 'oulm' is used for both the EVERLASTING Life of the Resurrected Believer and the EVERLASTING Shame and Contempt of the Resurrected Nonbeliever.

Daniel 12:2 (KJV)
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:28-29 (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Therefore, according to the Angel of God and Jesus - how can a NONBELIEVING SINNER who is RESURRECTED to EVERLASTING "Shame, Contempt, and Damnation" ever be given a chance to be SAVED - your suggested SALVATION AFTER DEATH?

PLEASE answer these questions using Scriptural FACTS and not IMO's.

barney

[myth-one.com]

As I have stated before, in 1 Cor. 15:42-44, Apostle Paul has NOTHING whatsoever to reveal regarding the resurrected bodies of NONBELIEVERS - but rather those who are BELIEVERS.

Therefore, how can you conclude from the above Passages, which have nothing to do with the Resurrection of the Sinner, that the Resurrected Body of Sinners will be MORTAL Human Bodies?

Paul wrote the following:

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (I Corinthians 15:22-23)

In verse 22, does "all" not include sinners? If not, why does Paul say every man in his own order, then feel it necessary to identify those to be resurrected next as the Christians?

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The punishment for the devil is eternal imprisonment. He will always be conscious of his punishment as he cannot die since he is an immortal spirit.

The beast and false prophet's punishment will go on forever and ever also. But their punishment is death -- the wages of sin is death. If they are humans, they die quickly when cast into the lake of fire. When death occurs, they lose all consciousness for all eternity:

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing... (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

Moreover, Apostle Paul makes it perfectly clear that the MORTAL NATURAL Body is SOWN, and not as you suggest, RESURRECTED.

At this point Paul is speaking about Christian bodies which are sown. Earlier Paul stated that all men die and all will be resurrected. There are only two body types -- natural and spiritual. Which do you believe that nonbelievers will be resurrected with?

Hint: Belivers shall not perish, but have everlasting life. So that would leave nonbelievers with N_ _ _ _ _ L bodies.

Meanwhile, you repeatedly declare that there is SALVATION AFTER DEATH.

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

All will be resurrected. Those that have done good to everlasting life. (we are not born with immortality -- it is a gift or reward).

Those that have done evil unto the resurrection of eternal damnation -- death.

Therefore, according to the Angel of God and Jesus - how can a NONBELIEVING SINNER who is RESURRECTED to EVERLASTING "Shame, Contempt, and Damnation" ever be given a chance to be SAVED - your suggested SALVATION AFTER DEATH?

The good news of the Gospel will be preached to them after they are resurrected as mortals:

For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit. (I Peter 4:5)

If they choose to accept Jesus as their Savior from the wages of their sins, their names will be written in the Book of Life. That is why the Book of Life is checked again after judgment.

Everyone must make a personal individual choice regarding Jesus after they truly understand the two possible choices:

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, . . . (Deuteronomy 30:19)

The Church has failed in it's mission of spreading the gospel to all the nations. Thus most humans will be hearing the gospel good news after their resurrection for the first time!

That's how. Simple and remarkable!

[barney]

Shalom myth-one,

To this end, if what you suggest is indeed true, that Resurrected Sinners will have a MORTAL Human Body - then once again, please explain how the FALSE PROPHET will have endured 1,000 years in the Lake of Fire, before Satan ever joins him? (Rev. 19:20, 20:2 and 20:10)

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cremation, the cremation of a HUMAN Body in a modern furnace can be as fast as ONE HOUR per 99 lbs. of body weight. I think we can safely assume then that the Lake of Fire would meet the standards of a 'modern' furnace...wouldn't you agree?

The time required for cremation varies from body to body, and, in modern furnaces, the process may be as fast as one hour per 45 kilograms (99 lb) of body weight.

Therefore, how could your suggested NATURAL Body of the False Prophet endure 8,766,157 hours in the Lake of Fire - 8.8 MILLION Hours his MORTAL Human body in the Lake of Fire?

One year is equal to 8766.1536 hours - thus, 1,000 years would be approximately equal to 8,766,156.6 hours.

PLEASE explain...

barney

[barney]

Shalom myth-one,

You quote 1 Peter 4:6 as PROOF that the GOSPEL will be Preached to those who have long since DIED in their Sins and are subsequently RESURRECTED in the 2nd. Resurrection as Sinners.

As such, you suggest from this that 1 Peter 4:6 offers SALVATION after Death to the SINNER.

However, with respect to 1 Peter 4:6 the KJV, NIV, etc. translates this verse as follows:

1 Peter 4:6 (KJV)
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

1 Peter 4:6 (NIV)
6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

You will notice that the PREACHED Gospel to those that are NOW DEAD in this said Passage - WAS Preached to them in the PAST, while they were still living, and NOT your suggested prophetic FUTURE.

Once again, you have hijacked this Scripture and taken it completely out of its defined CONTEXT, in order to support your notion of Salvation AFTER Death.

The greek word 'eueggelisthe' used here for WAS PREACHED is used in the Indicative Mood, Aorist, Passive, 3rd. Person, Singular, is translated in the PAST and not yet to come in the FUTURE.

barney

[myth-one.com]

To this end, if what you suggest is indeed true, that Resurrected Sinners will have a MORTAL Human Body - then once again, please explain how the FALSE PROPHET will have endured 1,000 years in the Lake of Fire, before Satan ever joins him? (Rev. 19:20, 20:2 and 20:10)

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The devil that deceived them was cast into the same lake of fire and brimstone as the beast and false prophet.

Only the devil shall be tormented there day and night for ever and ever according to the King James Translation.

Other translations are different.

[barney]

Shalom myth-one,

Thank you for responding.

You declare that the ONLY one who will be tormented day and night for ever and ever according to the KJV is the DEVIL - once again your claim is NOT Scripturally TRUE.

Only the devil shall be tormented there day and night for ever and ever according to the King James Translation.

Revelation 14:10-11 reveals that those who worship the Beast and his image, and whosoever receives his mark or name, will be tormented DAY and NIGHT for EVER and EVER, as well.

Revelation 14:10-11 (KJV)
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

You declare that, "Those SINNERS who will be resurrected in the 2nd. resurrection - will rise with NATURAL/MORTAL Human Bodies."

The question I have been asking you all along is - According to Scripture, HOW can a NATURAL Body (the Body of the FALSE PROPHET) withstand the Lake of Fire for 1,000 years, over 8.7 MILLION HOURS, and still be in existence when Satan is cast into the Lake of Fire to join the Beast and the False Prophet?

Revelation 20:10 (KJV)
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Today's Science PROVES that a NATURAL/MORTAL HUMAN BODY - can be cremated in a modern furnace at a rate of ONE HOUR per 99 pounds of body weight.

According to Rev. 19:20 the FALSE PROPHET was cast ALIVE into the Lake of Fire.

Revelation 19:20 (KJV)
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

In summary, 1,000 years or 8.8 MILLION HOURS later - he is still there.

PLEASE explain your suggested NATURAL Body concept for those SINNERS who will be in the 2nd. RESURRECTION...it is quite OBVIOUS you have created a Scriptural CONTRADICTION with your unsupportable claim.

barney