Jesus Healed Peoply Miraculuously

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 82, here:

Yes, He [Jesus] healed people miraculously.

For debate:

Please offer some means to confirm Jesus healed anyone, miraculously or not.

I remind folks of the rules regarding biblical quotatin' within this subforoom.

[ThatGirlAgain]

From Post 82, here:

Yes, He [Jesus] healed people miraculously.

For debate:

Please offer some means to confirm Jesus healed anyone, miraculously or not.

I remind folks of the rules regarding biblical quotatin' within this subforoom.

Are you looking for articles in peer reviewed professional medical journals?

Or how about this...

These claims were made in widely read works and there is no record of any contemporary challenges.

[Moses Yoder]

Jesus healed me. I'm sure you are going to ask for my doctor's file on me; it is about 3" thick by now, and there is no way you are going to see it. I had the doctors stumped for a year and a half, when Jesus finally led them in the right direction with an innocuous comment from my wife. I came very close to losing my family, which is really everything I have, and was miraculously saved from that loss.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 2:

Are you looking for articles in peer reviewed professional medical journals?

Or how about this...

These claims were made in widely read works and there is no record of any contemporary challenges.

I'd expect anyone who offers claims or proposes a given piece of evidence regarding the OP would remain within the rules of this site.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 3:

...

I wish to acknowledge Moses Yoder's post, but await moderator ruling before I respond.

[micatala]

Jesus healed me. I'm sure you are going to ask for my doctor's file on me; it is about 3" thick by now, and there is no way you are going to see it. I had the doctors stumped for a year and a half, when Jesus finally led them in the right direction with an innocuous comment from my wife. I came very close to losing my family, which is really everything I have, and was miraculously saved from that loss.

Moderator Comment


Just as a reminder for everyone, the guidelines for the Christianity and Apologetics forum are here.

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... php?t=9741

Note in particular:

2. Avoid using the Bible as the sole source to prove that Christianity is true. However, using the Bible as the only source to argue what is authentic Christianity is legitimate.

3. For factual claims like the existence of individuals, places, and events, the Bible can be considered as providing evidence, but not necessarily conclusive evidence.

4. Unsupported Bible quotations are to be considered as no more authoritative than unsupported quotations from any other book.

With respect to testimony regarding personal experiences, like that of Moses Yoder above, it is probably best not to bring those into a debate. Yes, a person can certainly have a belief or explanation about what happened to them personally. However, it is often the case, as here, that evidence that others can examine regarding these claims is not available for posting on the forum. Thus, while a person could share that experience and even point to it as a reason for their belief or position about a claim, it probably cannot be considered as evidence for a general claim like the one outlined in the OP.


Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster.

[Slopeshoulder]

The miracle stories have a theological function. In brief, they make the point that the performer of miracles has or is tapped into a power to heal and transform the spirit, soul, life, or whole person that is otherwise unavailable to us, that healing and wellness comes from this source: transcendent yet immanent, other yet alike, in this case incarnated god-among-us and with us and in us. The body and the need or illness are metaphorical: hunger, blindness, even death.
This is a common theme in religion, seen clearly in shamanism, medicine men, christian science, and eastern miracle working yogans - in Jesus Christianity gives its own particular twist. It's tied into the whole faith and works: the power is in this external source and our access point to it, in this case Jesus. And via our orientation to this, our faith, we are transformed to live a new reborn life, to do the works. No magic required. No hellfire, atonement, or hard right calvinism required, no fundamentalist readings of the letter to the Romans required.
To take miracles literally or refer to them as proof texts of magical powers today and as an adult is to read them like a child. It is to read an ancient magical history mindset, not unlike magic realism in literature, through a modern scientific lens, but inverted as a literalist. Very strange.
FWIW, I like the miracle stories because they let these themes emerge.

[Moses Yoder]

Jesus healed me. I'm sure you are going to ask for my doctor's file on me; it is about 3" thick by now, and there is no way you are going to see it. I had the doctors stumped for a year and a half, when Jesus finally led them in the right direction with an innocuous comment from my wife. I came very close to losing my family, which is really everything I have, and was miraculously saved from that loss.

Moderator Comment


Just as a reminder for everyone, the guidelines for the Christianity and Apologetics forum are here.

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... php?t=9741

Note in particular:

2. Avoid using the Bible as the sole source to prove that Christianity is true. However, using the Bible as the only source to argue what is authentic Christianity is legitimate.

3. For factual claims like the existence of individuals, places, and events, the Bible can be considered as providing evidence, but not necessarily conclusive evidence.

4. Unsupported Bible quotations are to be considered as no more authoritative than unsupported quotations from any other book.

With respect to testimony regarding personal experiences, like that of Moses Yoder above, it is probably best not to bring those into a debate. Yes, a person can certainly have a belief or explanation about what happened to them personally. However, it is often the case, as here, that evidence that others can examine regarding these claims is not available for posting on the forum. Thus, while a person could share that experience and even point to it as a reason for their belief or position about a claim, it probably cannot be considered as evidence for a general claim like the one outlined in the OP.


Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster.

I understand this position, but it makes it very difficult to confirm that Jesus healed anyone if eyewitness testimony is thrown out of court simply because of doctor/patient confidentiality laws. The file which has cost me thousands of dollars of my own money is now at least 300 pages long and yet is not even my own property, it belongs to my doctors. As a side note, it does not matter if the evidence is admissable or not; belief in Jesus' healing abilities is an act of faith, not science.

My apologies for not being more familiar with the rules.

[Moses Yoder]

8 And in Lystra a certain man without strength in his feet was sitting, a cripple from his mother’s womb, who had never walked. 9 This man heard Paul speaking. Paul, observing him intently and seeing that he had faith to be healed, 10 said with a loud voice, “Stand up straight on your feet!� And he leaped and walked.

The Bible in many places reveals that Jesus healed them because they had faith in Him. In the passage I quoted above, Paul healed a man because he saw the man had faith. Most doctors believe a patient has a better chance of getting well if they think positively. Believing that you will become better makes a person heal faster. Here is eyewitness testimony from a doctor who has seen patients miraculously healed.
http://www.mswm.org/healing.doctoranswers.htm

Believing that Jesus can heal you sometimes leads to miraculous healing.

[Slopeshoulder]

As a side note, it does not matter if the evidence is admissable or not; belief in Jesus' healing abilities is an act of faith, not science.

Actually, that gets right to the point! We can agree or not about the theology regarding jesus/god intervening and healing people today. But we agree that it is faith, not science. So the evidence is subjective not objective, and while it may present bases for faith, is not evidence in the strict sense. This is why I get very confused and perturbed when certain christians insist on "evidence" as the basis of belief. Rather, I think it is a non-linear process of taking in all sorts of data, including intuition and emotion, and actively connecting the dots to make a picture that we then lean into in a leap of faith, rather than some sort of linear, logical, evidence-based argument. If we disagree with atheists, it is around the value and direction of the leap, but it should never be around simple facts, logic, and evidence. That would make us seem stupid or belligerent, which sadly is often the case. In other words, it's about interpretation, not analysis - faith, not evidence. I don't think we reason our way to god and faith.