Epistemology requires consciousness, reason, and volition

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Is volition (real or illusory) required for epistemology?

Poll ended at Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:28 pm

Yes, genuine volition is required
4
44%
Yes, the illusion of volition is required
2
22%
No, volition is not required for epistemology
3
33%
 
Total votes: 9

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EduChris
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Epistemology requires consciousness, reason, and volition

Post #1

Post by EduChris »

McCulloch wrote:...epistemology...is meaningless without consciousness beings, with reason and volition, that can know stuff...
Is McCulloch correct? Do we need consciousness, reason, and volition in order to have a meaningful study of how we can know things?

I agree with McCulloch that all three components are necessary for epistemology. The requirement for "consciousness" seems unarguable--without it we couldn't know anything, and so obviously we couldn't know how we know things. The requirement for "reason" also seems unavoidable, since the lack of logic and rationality would doom any attempt at reasoned study of how we can know what we know.

This leaves "volition" as the one element that is perhaps possible to deny. We should probably separate the question of "Do we truly have volition?" from the question of "Does epistemology seem to require that attribute which we routinely perceive as our volition--i.e., our apparent ability to deliberate and make choices from the options available to us?"

In other words, let's leave aside for now the question of "Does volition actually exist?" Whether or not it actually exists, we certainly do at least have the inner sense or the illusion of being able to select from various options on the basis of desire or logic or perceived value (or perhaps even whim).

My background in education tells me that in order to get students to learn, you need to get them to want to learn. It is very difficult to force a student to learn something she doesn't really want to know. You can try to offer external rewards--i.e., prizes, praises, privileges, etc--but the very best way to motivate for learning comes from internal motivation. As educators, we want to help the student understand why it is important to her to learn the material. So it seems that volition is a vital aspect of general learning, and this would apply to epistemology as well.

Beyond that, we have to choose to think about epistemology rather than something else. We have to choose which arguments to analyze, and the standards by which we will analyze them. We need to choose which authors to read, which empirical studies to include. We need choose how we will rank the evidence, and we need to choose to carry all of this through to the conclusion which we adopt. The entire process is time-consuming and demanding; if we didn't want to do this, we probably wouldn't bother with it at all--and in fact most people don't think much about it as they go about their daily activities.

To me, it seems that volition--or at least the illusion of volition--is as necessary as consciousness and reason if we are to have a viable epistemology. What do you think?

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Post #61

Post by EduChris »

Adamoriens wrote:...An impersonal necessary cause does not even possess the attributes of CRV, much less instantiate them in some limited way, so it's not more complex by that metric...
Volition represents a "regime change" with respect to chance and/or necessity, but a universe-generating system that lacked volition would be limited per the metric of not incorporating the full set of causal mechanisms. A universe-generating system that possessed the full spectrum of causal mechanism would be simpler than a UGS that incorporated only some partial set.

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Post #62

Post by Adamoriens »

EduChris wrote:Volition represents a "regime change" with respect to chance and/or necessity, but a universe-generating system that lacked volition would be limited per the metric of not incorporating the full set of causal mechanisms. A universe-generating system that possessed the full spectrum of causal mechanism would be simpler than a UGS that incorporated only some partial set.
If I understand you correctly, you think that theism includes the full spectrum of causal capabilities while non-theism does not, and that this makes it preferable by the virtue of simplicity. But from the start we have established that theism and non-theism are mutually-exclusive causal mechanisms, such that neither includes the qualities of the other. While God might have existed and let contingent things be generated without his volitive acts, by definition that cannot be part of why theism is an explanation for contingent things.

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Post #63

Post by EduChris »

Adamoriens wrote:...Bayes theorem...
Volition renders Bayes theorem superfluous here. For example, if a volitional being exits from a grocery store with a bottle of Kefir in his shopping cart, the only reasonable explanation is that he wanted Kefir for some reason. If a calculation can be made at all, the probability of Kefir given volition would be very close to 1.0.

By contrast, if we need Kefir and we choose the non-volitional route, we're unlikely to get it by simply grabbing the first thing from the shopping cart of the first person to exit the store. To ensure that we get some Kefir, we would have to ransack the shopping carts of customer after customer, and even then we couldn't guarantee that we would ever get it, since it is quite possible that no one would buy it.

There are no grounds for supposing that non-theism could produce CRV given a single universe; the requirements for a CRV universe are too specific for it to happen by chance with just one attempt (if this were not the case, no one would be giving the multiverse any serious consideration at all, since there is no scientific evidence in its favor). CRV given non-theism requires a multiverse to even have a chance for success; by contrast, the probability of CRV given theism is as close to 1.0 as we can get, given that our universe shows that CRV is already "in the shopping cart," so to speak.

Theism doesn't require a single universe, but a single universe is the most probable option (since the probability of other universes is less than 1.0). The probability of CRV in a single universe, given either theism or non-theism, is 1.0. The probability of CRV in a single universe given non-theism is as close to 0 as we can get. Each additional universe might perhaps add slightly to the probability of CRV given non-theism--assuming that probability isn't zero to start with, in which case additional universes would have no effect. But the additional universes do nothing to diminish the probability of CRV given theism. Therefore, theism remains the more probable option no matter how many universes you stipulate--and the theistic universe-generating system also has the advantage of simplicity, given that it is not subject to any arbitrary limitations.

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Post #64

Post by Adamoriens »

It is true that we attribute certain motives to people based on their actions. In this case, however, we have no assurance that these people exist or even what their motives would be if they did. So it's not true, barring theological motives yet to be offered, that CRV given theism is as close to 1.0 as we can get; for all I know, it's less probable than CRV given single-universe naturalism. It seems this argument can only succeed on an intuitive level at best.

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Post #65

Post by EduChris »

Adamoriens wrote:...theological motives yet to be offered...
There is a general principle that "like produces like." On that basis alone we are justified in thinking that the simplest possible sort of universe-generating system--one which involves no arbitrary limits on consciousness, reason, and volition--would stand a greater chance of producing CRV than would a more complex UGS that arbitrarily lacked the fullest possible complement of causal factors.

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Post #66

Post by Adamoriens »

I think we may have come to an impasse. Some final thoughts:

Our examination is not between the multiverse and theism, but whether the necessary reality is theistic or non-theistic. As it turns out, both hypotheses are too vague to say which one is favoured given CRV. It seems impossible to discern what God's intentions would be in creating contingent things, and his reasons for creating particular contingent things like CRV are equally unclear, so we don't have a reliable basis for assigning a probability to CRV given theism. Non-theism is equally ambiguous, given that the multiverse may exist and may raise the probability of CRV obtaining. I'm uncertain the principle that things produce things in their likeness indicates theism, for two reasons. The first is that, given some specifics about the difference between God's mind and the human mind, the likeness breaks down and the argument weakens. The second is that consciousness is a bit of a mystery, such that (human) mind may well not be irreducible to matter, in substance if not in properties. Indeed, the only way to be sure that mind cannot (or is unlikely to) emerge from non-mind (hence, mind being a distinct category that "like comes from like" can be applied to) is to be sure about some harder form of dualism.

Perhaps it would simply be more fruitful to look at CRV in detail, since it's amenable to study, where God and whatever non-theism is are not.

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Post #67

Post by EduChris »

Adamoriens wrote:...whether the necessary reality is theistic or non-theistic...both hypotheses are too vague...
The question is whether the "necessary reality" is volitional or non-volitional.

Adamoriens wrote:...Perhaps it would simply be more fruitful to look at CRV in detail, since it's amenable to study, where God and whatever non-theism is are not.
It does seem that the nature of "necessary reality" always ends up being a variant of the question, "Who or what are we as human beings?"

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Post #68

Post by ThatGirlAgain »

EduChris wrote:
ThatGirlAgain wrote:...There is not one single credible, verifiable case of...
...an impersonal hypothetical omniverse-generating contraption...

ThatGirlAgain wrote:...why have we not heard from any of the...
...hypothetical infinitude of other universes...

ThatGirlAgain wrote:...Sorry but I cannot credit purported...
...hypothetical infinitudes of other universes...

ThatGirlAgain wrote:...And so you dismiss any disagreements with your beliefs with one liners rather than engage in debate on those points...
What was the point of your empty rhetoric?

ThatGirlAgain wrote:...Consciousness and volition...None of them exists in any absolute sense...
There goes the only reality any of us can ever truly know...

ThatGirlAgain wrote:...every logically possible universe exists simply because it is possible. There is one of every possibility because it is one possibility...Where they come from depends on what laws are part of that unique possibility...
And where do all of these distinct and isolated sets of laws come from?

ThatGirlAgain wrote:...Volition is an illusion...You are not freely choosing anything...Every unique universe exists, including all the variations on the physical phenomena that you call decisions.
Infinitudes of unobservable hypothetical universes are real and actual. Infinitudes of hypothetical unobservable universe templates are real and actual. An unobservable hypothetical perpetual omniverse-generating contraption is real and actual. But the only thing that we have direct and unmediated access to--that is an illusion! :roll:

Where is Joey when we need him? :lol:
So you have no answer to any of my criticisms. And all of your return criticisms can be applied just as well to your hypothetical unevidenced conscious volitional personal creator. But my scenario requires only a single assumption: logic as the foundation of reality. Everything, absolutely everything, follows directly. Whereas yours requires a black box in which to hide your unexplainables.
Dogmatism and skepticism are both, in a sense, absolute philosophies; one is certain of knowing, the other of not knowing. What philosophy should dissipate is certainty, whether of knowledge or ignorance.
- Bertrand Russell

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