God Created The World

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 12 here:

God created the world.

For debate:

I challenge folks to show the above claim is true.

[Autodidact]

Pardon me if I express incredulity. The alleged creator either has negligible interest in us or is not much of a craftsman.

Or else God was interested in the existence of the particular individuals which are unique to this particular world, which includes its 13.7 billion prologue.

Which, for all we know, is a very short prologue; how do you know God doesn't intend for man to be around for trillions of years?

13.7 billion years, one species of millions living on the skin of a sub-microscopic particle in relation to the whole, but it's the point of the whole thing...or maybe we just like to think it's all about us.

[EduChris]

...I really don't think it at all a realistic point of view to assume that there is a creator who built this entire universe for the benefit of such a miniscule part of it...It simply does not resemble a rational. sensible, or efficient design concept no matter how you look at it...

Unsubstantiated opion.

...if we are the main point to the entire universe then the rest of it is what? Wasted space?

Would you prefer that we all stay here on earth forever, or would you rather have some opportunity for future exploration and discovery?

[EduChris]

...Here are some example threads, all from my first month here. I got tired of looking after that...

Maybe I missed it (I got tired after looking at the first few threads) but where did you interact with any person credentialed or degreed in biblical studies? Mithrae would count, but I saw very little of your interaction with him. Can you narrow down the search?

[Moses Yoder]

So no hope of actually determining the truth then?

Yes, you will eventually know the truth. When you die. If you see God and He is disappointed that you didn't believe Him when you were alive, you will know God exists and would probably be able to determine whether or not He created the world, as you converse with Him. If everything just goes black and you know nothing, you can assume the evolutionistic atheists were right.

[eutychus]

Pardon me if I express incredulity. The alleged creator either has negligible interest in us or is not much of a craftsman.

Or else God was interested in the existence of the particular individuals which are unique to this particular world, which includes its 13.7 billion prologue.

Which, for all we know, is a very short prologue; how do you know God doesn't intend for man to be around for trillions of years?

13.7 billion years, one species of millions living on the skin of a sub-microscopic particle in relation to the whole, but it's the point of the whole thing...or maybe we just like to think it's all about us.

Evolutionary biologists Ward and Brownlee (authors of Rare Earth)make the case for life in the universe being rare rather than the norm. They updated the Drake Equation from the 1950s to be more in line with today's understanding of cosmology, adding a lot of other factors to the equation, and as any one factor approaches zero, so too does the product. We may well be the only planet where animal life exists for a very large chunk of the universe.

[Autodidact]

Unsubstantiated opion.

And we don't want people going around just making assertions without supporting them, do we? We can't have that.

...if we are the main point to the entire universe then the rest of it is what? Wasted space?

Would you prefer that we all stay here on earth forever, or would you rather have some opportunity for future exploration and discovery?

So 99.999999999% of the universe exists so that a single species living on the surface of .000000001% of it can possibly explore it at some point in the unforeseeable future, if we exist that long?

[Autodidact]

So no hope of actually determining the truth then?

Yes, you will eventually know the truth. When you die. If you see God and He is disappointed that you didn't believe Him when you were alive, you will know God exists and would probably be able to determine whether or not He created the world, as you converse with Him. If everything just goes black and you know nothing, you can assume the evolutionistic atheists were right.

1. So we can't know the truth while we're alive? Does that apply to everyone, including you?

2. Can you provide a shred of support for your unsubstantiated opinion? Or do you expect us to just accept your word as truth?

3. What about the evolutionistic theists? Don't they have a chance too?

4. Or maybe you will see God, and He will be disappointed that you based your beliefs on something other than evidence.

[Goat]

...I really don't think it at all a realistic point of view to assume that there is a creator who built this entire universe for the benefit of such a miniscule part of it...It simply does not resemble a rational. sensible, or efficient design concept no matter how you look at it...

Unsubstantiated opion.

Why?? Because you say so?? I would say that comparing the size of the universe to our solar system, and look at it from a percentage of efficiency is making it substantiated/. Can you show why the analogy is not substantiating the opinion?

I call a two line response like that hand waving the argument away,' rather than rationally responding to it.

...if we are the main point to the entire universe then the rest of it is what? Wasted space?

Would you prefer that we all stay here on earth forever, or would you rather have some opportunity for future exploration and discovery?

Can you show that would be needed and necessary in a rational and valid design ??? Why not just limit ourselves to something like our galaxy,.. with the limitation of light, that would last us a few billion years.

[EduChris]

...Why?? Because you say so??...

Because he simply presents an opinion without ever providing any logical basis for connecting size with efficiency. If given a choice between living in a crackerbox or a castle, which would you prefer?

...I would say that comparing the size of the universe to our solar system, and look at it from a percentage of efficiency is making it substantiated/. Can you show why the analogy is not substantiating the opinion?...

You would need to provide some logical basis for assuming that size is necessarily related to efficiency, given possible ulterior motives such as beauty, grandeur, lebensraum, discovery, travel, etc.

...Can you show that would be needed and necessary in a rational and valid design ???...

What's wrong with a little extra flourish, a little extra grandeur? Why limit ourselves to some bland rationality? Who wants to live in a crackerbox?

...Why not just limit ourselves to something like our galaxy,.. with the limitation of light, that would last us a few billion years.

What's a billion years, give or take an eternity? God (as defined by contemporary theists) isn't bound by any arbitrary limitation of light.

[Moses Yoder]

So no hope of actually determining the truth then?

Yes, you will eventually know the truth. When you die. If you see God and He is disappointed that you didn't believe Him when you were alive, you will know God exists and would probably be able to determine whether or not He created the world, as you converse with Him. If everything just goes black and you know nothing, you can assume the evolutionistic atheists were right.

1. So we can't know the truth while we're alive? Does that apply to everyone, including you?

2. Can you provide a shred of support for your unsubstantiated opinion? Or do you expect us to just accept your word as truth?

3. What about the evolutionistic theists? Don't they have a chance too?

4. Or maybe you will see God, and He will be disappointed that you based your beliefs on something other than evidence.

1. So we can't know the truth while we're alive? Does that apply to everyone, including you?

A) How can we possibly know whether we exist or not? I have been trying to determine the existence of New York City, and can't even do that. I can see myself; how can I determine whether what I see is actually there? And we can't even see God when we are alive, how in the world do you think we are going to determine the reality of God? Everything we believe to be true is accepted by faith, based on the evidence. If I could prove God existed, you would then be forced to believe in Him. Is that what you want?

2. Can you provide a shred of support for your unsubstantiated opinion? Or do you expect us to just accept your word as truth?

A) The answer to the first question is yes I can, and no I won't due to time constraints and the feeling that it would be wasted time. I charge $75 per hour for shop time, if someone is will to send me $225 I will provide some evidence at my leisure. The answer to your second question is I couldn't giving a flying hoot what your opinion is of my opinion.

3. What about the evolutionistic theists? Don't they have a chance too?

A) I consider evelotionistic theists to be an oxymoron, a complete waste of my time. Just my opinion. The Bible clearly says the days of creation were marked by morning and evening, a 12 hour period, or 24 hour days if you include night. From what I have read of evolution, we did not evolve in a 12 hour period. I was an evolutionistic theist at one time, and when I look back on how stupid that was I want to do very bad things to myself.

4. Or maybe you will see God, and He will be disappointed that you based your beliefs on something other than evidence

A) My beliefs are based on the evidence that is the Word of God Himself, the Bible, and the universe. What more could you ask for as far as evidence goes? Plus I have the evidence of the work taht the Holy SPirit has done in my life.