Who created God

[Donray]

Who created God?

The intelligent design folks point to the fact that the universe is perfect universe and therefore must have been created by God.

I also understand that God is perfect.

Given these facts, who or what created God?

[Artie]

I'm illustrating the difference between form and substance. Matter is form, its substance is energy.

Matter is form and substance. Energy is insubstantial, as in kinetic energy, thermal energy, magnetic energy etc.

[Goat]

[

Is the Eiffel Tower constructed? If it is 'Eiffel Towers' are not fundamental. You won't find them issuing from supernovae.

How is that example relavent to your original claim? Weak analogies that are totally not in alignment with your original claim is not valid either

I'm illustrating the difference between form and substance. Matter is form, its substance is energy.

When it comes to matter/energy, E=MC² , so there is no difference. Your analogy is still weak, your idea is incorrect.

[arian]

One of the most difficult questions in philosophy is why there is something rather than nothing. We know there is something but we don't know why. We know that that which is, exists. What is it that is? The theist argues that it is mind or something we could recognize as mind. The argument then becomes; How can mind be complex? Who made God complex?

This is Dawkin's argument. He says that only things that evolve can be complex. But is this true? And if it is what does 'complex' mean? It can hardly mean physical complexity since God is not seen to be physical. God can be complex in a way that does not require evolution in the way Dawkins understands evolution. God can be complex through contemplation. There is a branch of mathematics called Number Theory. It began, would you believe, with numbers. For thousands of years human beings have been contemplating the set of natural numbers; 1, 2, 3...

Numbers are the most primitive thoughts a mind can have. Suppose a mind thinks the most elementary idea. Represent this with "/" What is the simplest thing that can be done next? The same thing "//". And again, "///" and so on "////..."

If we partition these primordial notions as follows,

/, //, ///,... we get the familiar integers,

1, 2, 3,...

So, iteration and partition are all that are needed to create these primordial objects. Out of the contemplation of /, //, ///,... has come a great body of theory that is both complex and simple and everything in between. This is a complexity that has arisen from contemplation and does not require evolution - at least in the normal sense of the word.

So Dawkins is wrong. Complexity can arise out of pure thought or out of consciousness. Perhaps God has been thinking for eternity and perhaps this is how God is 'complex' and simple and everything in between?

There is, within mathematics, a kind of timelike interdependancy and relation but it does not require time to exist. It is a kind of eternal time (all of time at once, if you will).

Physical structures - even the genome - are ultimately mathematical constructs. One only has to see how prevalent mathematics is in, say, chemistery to see this. So, perhaps the essential mathematical structure of the physical universe exists in God's mind and physicality is an expression of pure mathematical thought. Or, physical structures are 'mathematics made visible', and this is how God is complex.

I love what you have written here mgb, you mind is not stuck in the physical realm alone, thus you are not a 'victim' of circumstance, well at least your mind isn't.

I believe that we did not biologically evolve to where we are today, but we were biologically created as we are now, and are evolving 'spiritually' into the 'oneness' of God, to be like-minded as the Scriptures say.

Did we 'evolve' wisdom, or do we 'work' on it to attain it (cause and effect)?

Now I ask: "Why did God create us in His image? What is it that He wanted to learn of this 'mini-gods' creation?"

Here is where I wonder off to where only the mind can travel, ...

"God formed man of the dust of the earth" mans body is just laying there motionless, no thought or worry about anything, this is NOT God, as you said, 'God is Spirit'.

Now God 'breaths' a tiny of His Spirit within this physical body made of dust, and man becomes a living soul an independent being with a will of his own. Everything is of, by and IN God, yet not God, why?

Let's imagine what happened; man wakes up, opens his eyes and looks around. Now we know that the spirit within the body is the same as God, all knowing, but it wakes up in a brain/mind that is void of any data. Like a new computer, empty of any information.

So what happens next? The computer is up and running, so we need to program it, and the first thing is the system. What is a monitor, sound card, disk drives, and so on are all put on the hard drive permanently (sub conscious), until the computer knows to function, right?

Now God takes a form like man and continues to explain to Adam (programs him) all the things he is able to do, and the senses to enjoy it with. Sight and the beauty of the Garden is realized, smell and the fragrance of the fruits, the flowers, the fresh oxygenated air in the lungs is very much appreciated with every breath.

Hunger, craving and the taste of the fruit is enjoyed also. Now look a little further, .. who is 'really' enjoying this?

The body is only dust, a very complex sensing unit, nothing more. The brain interprets all the senses and stores it in the brain (memory) right? But who really enjoys all this information stored from the senses?

It is the 'spirit' within us (I say small 'spirit' because it is not God, or the Whole Spirit) which is as the Bible says that "when man dies, the spirit returns to the One who gave it" so it is God. God has created mini gods of Himself, to be able to enjoy things, to experience things besides the Eternal Spiritual self that He is.

Not only that, but He retains the 'individuality' of each tiny spirit to a point he requires them to give an account of their own actions. We really are 'Children of God' as Abel and Cain were the children of Adam and Eve. This is how we can understand and appreciate how loving and forgiving our God is. We also see this from the 'choices' others make by their destruction which in turn causes pain and suffering to their fellow man. We must remember that 'God has a choice too', just as He gave Satan and his angels, and us.

I love science-fiction, but we must not forget the reality of our existence either. We are individual 'creations' of God, and IN God who must come to terms and accept this fact, or face the consequences.

Who created God?
Well just as science slowly accepts that we really didn't come from 'nothing', and that maybe a 'little something' was always there, and soon they will have to humbly accept that that something is really Everything, that is God, a conscious, reasoning Creator who assigned laws and limits to every atom that makes up man, and every evil intention that the freedom of will drives man. There is no 'limit' to the 'good' we can do, for that, God is the limit, who Himself is 'unlimited'.

[Neatras]

Who created God?
Well just as science slowly accepts that we really didn't come from 'nothing', and that maybe a 'little something' was always there, and soon they will have to humbly accept that that something is really Everything, that is God, a conscious, reasoning Creator who assigned laws and limits to every atom that makes up man, and every evil intention that the freedom of will drives man. There is no 'limit' to the 'good' we can do, for that, God is the limit, who Himself is 'unlimited'.

You're gonna have to do some work proving this statement to be true. We can THEORIZE that we didn't come from nothing, but it's a HUGE gap to say, "We might have something equivalent to absolute eternal existence, non-relative to this universe's time," and saying, "GOD EXISTS, YIPPEE!"

Please, show me the jump, and all the verifications that get you there. The Bible, making a claim, cannot be used to verify itself, so you're gonna have to be more creative with your sources.